So---With Visa card in hand I called Gennie Shifter---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Can I have a clarification on the H4 lights? I was just going to replace the sealed beams bulbs (early type halogen) in the stainless Dietz shells with the Speedway 910-61018 7" fluted bulbs. My wife's car is a 2003 Saturn and the headlights are really great so I assumed the H4 bulbs were like that. My "plan" was/is to keep the beautiful STAINLESS Dietz shells (Speedway 911-01007), replace the sealed beam bulbs with the 910-61018 7" and then add the Speedway kit 910-64150 for turn signals so as to end up with retaining the nice stainless shells, brighter lights and turn signals. Are these H4 bulbs the ones that don't last? I checked on this conbination with one of the tech guys at Speedway and he said it will work but there was no mention of bulb lifetime.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

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Don,
Take a look at this:

OK Dave, So I should buy the H4 setup and replace the bulb with a 9003?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don,

The turn signals inside the headlight shell don't work worth a darn. You can't see them with the lights on. I installed them - then threw them away.

Thanks Henry, I wondered about that. I looked at a neat '29 Shay here in Richmond that has that style light and could see them but not clearly so at night they are certainly marginal. Still I want the brighter headlights even if I have to use external turn signals. I guess I will take another look for motorcycle lights with threads that can hang below the headlight buckets but they have to be small due to the curve of the fender. It is a darn shame about the verticle "arm" on the stock '29 cowl lights. Restorers turn them into turn signals but there is only one nut on the inside to hold them and with the weight of the lamp you would have to really tighten that nut to keep the lamp from swinging down and besides the most beautiful part of a '29 body is the swooping cowl sides and it would be a shame to clutter them up with cowl lamps. I am attaching a picture of my neighbor's restored '29 sport coupe to show the cowl lights which he converted to turn signals but you can see there would be a lot of tendency for those lights to swing down. Deuce cowl lamps are closer with straight in bolts but they are larger and would also spoil the shape of the cowl.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder.

Don,
Yes - buy 9003 bulbs - H4 bulbs really stretch legality as do the lights installed in the headlight bucket. As Jack said, the integrated lights really can't be seen.

As far as OEM cowl lamps, on an original style car, there is a wood block and a separate arm that they bolt to rather then the actual cowl steel. On my '31 they also serve as part of the cowl band retaining system. There are lots of other choices available - and you can even choose commercial trucking,marine or motorcycle lights. What I personally don't like are the $10-12 lights like shown here. They are way too common, weather pit within a year, and the bulbs are expensive specials.

I have had a couple of hot rods with the chrome body turn signals as pictured above, sorry they were removed and other options were searched out.
After I installed a set of the Speedway headlight turn signals, and I found that you definetly cannot see those, I returned them for a refund.
So I decided to make a concerted effort to find a light that was small and would mount inside the headlight and be seen day or night.
Well I have found them. They are currently being manufactured at this time.
They are an LED light, very bright. And they are small, 1.5 inches long and 3/4 inches high. And they are easy to mount. You just have to drill a hole in your reflector and then plug in the wires from your existing turn signal. Reassemble and you are on your way.
I will show some pics here. These are the first ones that I made and they are going to be exactly like the ones in thepics. You can mount at the bottom or the top of the headlight reflector.
No price yet. I will post after I have a few packaged and reeady to send.
Craig

Hey, a full-fendered '29 with a dropped bar! I am very interested to see the test that DennyW mentions and to find out how you do it. For what it is worth I have found that LED side markers will fit exactly into the space between Model A bumper bars, but (!) so far I do not see an easy way to hide the wires along the bumper brackets. Black plastic wire covers almost work but look pretty clunky upon closer inspection.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Okay here are two pics I took tonight one of the Tsig on and one off. They can be seen very clearly straight on from a distance with the H4 lights on. But they do not photograph that well because of glare. I am sure there is some way to take a clearer picture but I am not a pro.
Please note the bulbs in the 28 are H4 bulbs. You can purchase the reflector and bulb socket to add to your 28 29 30 31 and 32 headlight buckets.
Thank you for the nice comments on the 28.
Craig

Boxstr, If/when you post some more pictures of how to install the LEDs in the headlight bucket reflectors (particularly how to nibble out the oval hole) it would be great to see some pictures of the whole car. I should have noticed the lack of door handles on a '28 but thought it was just part of your smooth look. I would be interested in seeing how you cool the engine with the non-louvered hood sides. Shroud, electric fan, etc.? On the headlights, the combined conclusion I get is that I could retrofit the H4 reflector kit in my Dietz buckets, add a 9003 bulb and then nibble out the hole for the LED so we need more info on where to get the LED and some comments on the flasher to use with the LED. I really like orange too but my wife said no so I finally sold her on metallic wine/maroon.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don, if you look at the pic of the bottom of the reflector it is actually just a hole that I drilled out. No nibbling. And I would assume that you might be able to find a reflector for the Dietz???
I will be taking step by step pics of a how-to-add the LED Tsigs.
The 28 is running a Buick V6,TH 350 trans, 9 inch Ford RE. The temp gauge barely gets off the peg. It is running an electric fan. I will include a few shots of the motor later.
Craig

Hey, nice side curtains too! I hope you can include a good picture of the side curtains and the part of the top just behind the doors. C9x has pretty well convinced me to go with a LeBaron Bonney top in my price range and he has neat Lexan quarter windows but I would like to see yours too. I was a big fan of the Buick V6 but got brainwahed by the SBC crowd and now may have to continue to detune it for better mpg. Although I have just a 300 HP stock 327 cam I will use 1.5 rockers on the intake and 1.6 on the exhaust as my only hop up besides some simple head work. What model V6 do you have in terms of the cu. in.?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Boxstr---I love your roadster pickup. There were a few days last fall when I would REALLY have liked your sidecurtains.---Brian

Thank you guys. It is a really fun truck. The Buick V6 is a 231 with a 500 CFM carb. polished Holley manifold and chrome headers. It gets 20-22 MPG. I just replaced the TH 350 trans, resealed the motor and replaced some rubber lines with steel. Also a new slip yoke and u-joints. Ready for a trouble free summer of crusing.
I am seriously thinking of using this motor in a 29 2door 5 window coupe that I am going to build.
There is a thread regarding the side windows. You might check the archives.
Craig

Any progress with the LED? Maybe you can just tell us the part number and source and we can make our own?

I really like your side curtains. Any chance you could show a picture of how they fasten at the back edge?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

I have the lites ready to go. I need to pull apart the 28 and take pics.
I do have some pics of the side curtains. Let me resize them and I will post here.

Okay here are th epics of my new side wing windows, I have glass, but they are so freakin heavy that if they slipped out of the holders it would take a fender or running board off. I had these made out of Lexan. This is the best way to travel in cool weather with the top up or down. The other things is they will swivel in and you can install the winter side curtains on and leave the WW's on
The other pic is of the side windows. You see the white clips. They fasten at the back of the top rail that comes down. You can see the white clips they are not fastened, for clarity.
I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions
Craig

Boxstr, Thank you very much! Really! The plastic clips are really neat; I can take your pictures to a local top shop. This means that I can get the "Gypsy" type top and will not have to drill holes in the tops of the doors for a stick or pole as used in the stock doors. In fact I think one can retain much of the side vision by extending the clear plastic back in a triangular way almost to the back brace. I have pondered this for over six months as to how to avoid the need for holes in the door tops and retain the side vision. I have been in contact with a local top shop and they say they can make whatever I want at $50/hour plus cost of materials and they did a super job on a '34 Dodge roadster recently. C9x talked me into Lexan as well after I had the WW cut from (heavy) glass but I had a hard time drilling the holes for the windwings straight and ended up with some wedge-shaped rubber hose washers. Maybe I can remake washers out of copper tubing and have them chromed or find some aluminum tubing to keep the metallic look. It is frustrating to me to see examples again and again of better workmanship than I can seem to muster but maybe once I get the car finished I will be able to clean up some of these details like the hose washers. I note I still have to drill the stanchions for the side curtain posts. I wore out a bit drilling the WW mount holes but I have a new drill press so maybe I can clamp them down and get neat holes for the curtain posts. Your workmanship is excellent and there are many super nice cars on this Forum but mine seems to fall somewhere closer to a rat rod but as I said maybe I will be able to clean up some of these details later, maybe. I have since trimmed the rubber strip along the top of the windshield.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don If you need I could send a side window, since the weather is starting to warm. You can use it for a pattern and send it back.

Here is a pic of the front that will show you the snap layout.
Stainless takes a slow drill and a hard bit.
Craig

Boxstr,
Thanks for your generous offer, but that won't be necessary. I can show your pictures to the top shop. Just wondering how you open the door when the clips ar on in the inside, unsnap the front edge? That last picture is also helpful. Thanks you very much. Let us know of progress with the LEDs in the headlight bucket.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don and others here is a very rough photo essay of the led turn signals I mounted in my 28 Ford RPU
The dot is one inch from the edge of the headlight, I then drill to the 5/8" on the step drill bit. The led lights are pushed in and the rubber o-ring is slipped over the back part of the light, this will hold it tightly in place. You then hook up the wires and test.
Any questions.
Craig

I have the lites shipped to me and I then modify them to fit into the reflectors, along with adding the o-rings and instructions. email me at camp914@comcast.net
Craig

Well add me to the headlight bar problem group...LOL! Wealth of info in this thread.

How in the world did hot rodders make it before the internet??? LOL!

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Originally Posted by youther

Well add me to the headlight bar problem group...LOL! Wealth of info in this thread.

How in the world did hot rodders make it before the internet??? LOL!

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Should we welcome you or just commiserate??:LOL:

Well I ordered mine today from a place in NC. They are going to drop ship it from Gennie. Hopefully it will mount up without any problems.

After I looked at pictures of "a30coupe's" car before he got the headlightbar and used single mounts for each light, I might have went that route. It sure would have been cheaper...LOL!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by youther

Well I ordered mine today from a place in NC. They are going to drop ship it from Gennie. Hopefully it will mount up without any problems.

After I looked at pictures of "a30coupe's" car before he got the headlightbar and used single mounts for each light, I might have went that route. It sure would have been cheaper...LOL!

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The nice part about headlight bars - they tie early Ford floppy front fenders, especially 'glass versions, together into a nice solid single unit. The fender brace, is then bolted thru the fender to the bar. Some folks don't bolt the outer part of the brace to the fender though.

Well you have convinced me asbout the H4 headlights and the LEDs from Boxstr are nice but I am still flirting with the bumper style turn signals. The kit is too expensive but I bought the flat mounting plates separately and found that side marker LEDs just fit the A bumpers. The only problem here is hiding the wire.

http://www.logolites.com/led/turn/signals/index.htm

I may still end up with the LED in the bucket but I have looked at one on another Shay-29 and you really could not see them with the headlights on. Still that Orange PU is one fine car!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don I have to agree, I think $169.00 seems a bit on the high side for turn signals
that I would be able to fab myself.
Craig

Quote:

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Originally Posted by boxstr

Don I have to agree, I think $169.00 seems a bit on the high side for turn signals
that I would be able to fab myself.
Craig

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I have a feeling that what you are paying for is their little proprietary control box - which is fine if you need it. Most after market wiring blocks already have a flasher setup built in

IC2, I do not plan to buy their box. I just paid $6 each for four stainless steel brackets that fit the bumper bracket bolts between the upper and lower bar. I am hoping that I can just use the flasher unit from Speedway that clicks with less current just as I would have to use with the LEDs from Boxstr. I also purchased the four side marker LED which were about $8 each so I have about 4 x $14 = $56 in the parts so far without the special flasher; this includes rear as well as front turn signals. Considering that quite a few of the parts I have purchased turn out to be just the first try and then are replaced by something better, I am just trying to avoid continuing to buy two or three items until I get it (mostly) right. So far it has been a rather inefficient process. Originally I thought I would just carefully select the right parts but as progress went on I had to get second or even third parts as I learned things. I may yet try Boxtrs in-headlight LEDS but I already had the side marker lights so looking it over I will try to get them to work. I like the bright yellow lights in the bumper but I don't like the wires to show so if I am not satisfied with that I will get back to Boxstr.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don---Couldn't you bend some 3/8" thinwall metal tubing (like brakeline or hydraulic tubing) to follow the contour of your front bumper brackets and tack the tubing to the underside of the bumper brackets and run the wires thru it? If you painted it flat black or the colour of the brackets, nobody would ever notice it.---Brian

Brian, yes I thought of that some time ago but in terms of copper tubing that would be easy to bend into a serpentine shape but I did not think of steel brakeline, that is a better idea and would be easier to tack weld but I have a nice black enamel finish on the brackets and need to just tack the tubing in a few places. Still the steel would weld better. I might try the copper tubing idea and use epoxy to glue the tubing on the bottom of the brackets; some small holes can be drilled into the bottom of the brackets to aid attachment of the epoxy. Copper would offer some corrosion resistance down where splash water is commonand would be painted black on the outside as you suggest. Overall the lights in the bumper look more like the restorers solution than a traditional rod appearance but the ones I have in the rear do look pretty good if I can hide the wires. Note that the stock bumpers are angled at the ends so the flashers face to the side somewhat as do most "modern" turn signals and since I have invested heavily in the stainless bumpers, I think it really looks good in a "restorod" sense. Even so just discussing this helps me formulate this approach and I think I will try the epoxy-copper tubing idea if the plastic tubing idea does not work. I have purchased some black plastic "flex tubing" which is already black and easier to glue. I originally purchased this for the wiring over the top of the windshield for the lone electric windshield wiper but upon looking at it I note that it might be perfect to hide the wires under the brackets, Another possibility is to just to glue (epoxy) the wires alone to the bottom of the brackets. Since the brackets are thicker than the wires there is a pretty good chance the wires can be hidden underneath. I am studying the LOGO-Light pictures and the wires are only visible just behind the light.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

As far as buying 2-3 different parts to achieve a purpose - what makes you any different then anyone else:LOL: :LOL: That's what swap meets are for - sell the extras - but, of course, at a loss.

One item you may need to add to the LED lights wiring assemblies is either a 'special electronic' $35 flasher or a $5 resistor in each circuit. The LEDs do not draw enough current to activate a standard flasher. Take a look here http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/h...aillights.html

For possibly using tubing as a conduit, McMaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/) sells lengths of SS and have a fairly good selection of clamps. Type in SS TUBING on their search function in the LH column. I wouldn't spoil a good paint job if I could mechanically clamp an item by drilling and tapping a small hole.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Brian, yes I thought of that some time ago but in terms of copper tubing that would be easy to bend into a serpentine shape but I did not think of steel brakeline, that is a better idea and would be easier to tack weld but I have a nice black enamel finish on the brackets and need to just tack the tubing in a few places. Still the steel would weld better. I might try the copper tubing idea and use epoxy to glue the tubing on the bottom of the brackets; some small holes can be drilled into the bottom of the brackets to aid attachment of the epoxy. Copper would offer some corrosion resistance down where splash water is commonand would be painted black on the outside as you suggest. Overall the lights in the bumper look more like the restorers solution than a traditional rod appearance but the ones I have in the rear do look pretty good if I can hide the wires. Note that the stock bumpers are angled at the ends so the flashers face to the side somewhat as do most "modern" turn signals and since I have invested heavily in the stainless bumpers, I think it really looks good in a "restorod" sense. Even so just discussing this helps me formulate this approach and I think I will try the epoxy-copper tubing idea if the plastic tubing idea does not work. I have purchased some black plastic "flex tubing" which is already black and easier to glue. I originally purchased this for the wiring over the top of the windshield for the lone electric windshield wiper but upon looking at it I note that it might be perfect to hide the wires under the brackets, Another possibility is to just to glue (epoxy) the wires alone to the bottom of the brackets. Since the brackets are thicker than the wires there is a pretty good chance the wires can be hidden underneath. I am studying the LOGO-Light pictures and the wires are only visible just behind the light.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

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Don--epoxy won't work in that application---rather, it will work, but to have enough to make it effective you will need so much that it will look terrible. That is definately an application for steel tubing welded in place.

Well, the big melt is underway here. Daytime temperatures have crept up to 60 degrees F at mid day, and my lawn is slowly emerging from its white shroud. (Sounds poetic, but Damn! I hate winter.) I have my new "lathe room" all drywalled, taped and plastered and painted, and the base for my new lathe is supposed to arrive here tomorrow. ---This will be good, as the drip pan for the lathe is really part of the base, and without it I can't really do any machining with a lubricant/coolant, or it goes all over the floor. Hopefully, I will soon drag this thread back to what I originally started it as, about installing the new Gennie Shifter" headlight bar and changing out my aftermarket front fender support brackets for a set of originals. I will be using the new lathe to machine a pair of oval, tapered shims from aluminum to fill the gap at the end of their ill fitting headlight bar. They advertise these bars as being universal fits, but they really seem to only fit the fender curvature on the 30/31 series fenders, not the 28/29 series which I have on the roadster pickup. Since I have the headlights apart anyways, I will be replacing the 7" sealed beams with some kind of direct replacement Halogen headlights. Thank you Irelands Child for your info placed earlier in this thread.

Yesterday, I built a jig to make certain that my"new" original Henry Ford fender brace had the same contours as my reproduction fender brace on the drivers front fender. the operation was very successfull as you can read about at
http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/sho...d=1#post305460

With the new fender brace bolted in place (this was to fix a tire scrub issue), I was then able to bolt on the new Gennie Shifter headlight bar and tightend down all the bolts. It now fits much better than it did before, and is perfectly level. I will still have to machine a couple of polished aluminum shims to make the ends of the bar fit the fender contours perfectly, but not as big as I originally thought. I ordered Halogen kits for my 7" King Bee headlights yesterday, so hopefully I will have this all buttoned up by next week for another summers cruising.---Brian

WOOOOHHHHHOOOOOO!!! LOL! Mine mounted up perfctly without one single problem. It actually fit better than the '31 dropped bar did. The '31 bar was longer and I had to loosen the bolts to the braces to get the fenders to drop so that I could get it to wedge in, but for the gennie bar I had to tighten the bolts back up to bring the fenders up for it. I'll post some pics tomorrow.

All finished up with Halogen headlights in place.--It looks a little "frog eyed" at the moment, because I can't get far enough away from it in the garage to take a good picture. I had to shorten the wire conduits about 5" on each side, and had to chuck the bolts that hold the King Bee headlights in place in the lathe and turn off about 1/8" from the square part of the bolt. The square shank under the head would not fit thru the Gennie shifter headlight bar hole, so when the nut was tightened down the headlights still wanted to "flop around". Other than that, and having to buy a new tip for my old soldering gun, the headlight transition went very smoothly.

Still interested in your type side curtains but I took the easy way out and bought the "It's A Snap" headlights that have the yellow LED separately on the bottom of the lens and they do fit in the 7" Dietz bickets I have. There is a lot of misinformation regarding the braided cable from the radiator shell to the headlight bucket. Anyway, I am happy to report that the Speedway Dietz (stainless) buckets do work with the "It's-A-Snap" bulbs which hold an H4 bulb in the top part and have a larger segment along the bottom of the lens that is separate from the clear part. For me it is easier to mess with the bucket installation although the It's-A-Snap unit is expensive. The main point is that I was able to look at and compare in hand four different lamps as well as their tests at the recent NSRA Richmond National Meet and I came home with the It's-A-Snap units. I like your LED in bulb but I would have to cut the reflector and the LED in that case is somewhat within the white light when the headlights are on. The slight advantage of the It's-A-Snap unit is that there is a partition between the LED part and the H4 part. Anyway I am just glad that at this point I have parts that go together, fit and work which is somewhat of a rarity for me! I also ordered a neat unit for LED tail lights from Bratton Model A parts which is just inserted where the stock lens would be and the leads plug into the stock bulb sockets so I will have LED turn signals all the way around.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Boxstr. I am still studying your side curtains and I like the use of the smooth snaps on the front edge of the windshield pillars. Although that is not an original setup it looks smoother than the pegs which leave a hole around the snap. I am attaching a picture of my Dietz stainless buckets now in place which shows the LED lens along the bottom of the "bulb" and it is clear when the LED is off. I am not sure if I can find wire covers long enough to use the bottom of the bolt because the stock cable sleeves are only 12" long and with the dropped bar the headlights are now lower relative to the grommet holes in the side of the stock radiator shell. One way out is to drill a hole in the back of the bucket for the cables similar to the way the stock Model A headlights attached the cable but I am trying to avoid messing up the shells with hand-drilled holes. I have the braided lines from Speedway but they are thin and it would be hard to get another wire in the thin sleeve for the turn signal light. The "It's-A-Snap" bulbs actually have three wires in addition to the usual three for the headlight but there is no way I/you can get six wires in that thin braided sleeve. If I have to drill holes in the back of the bucket I can attach the LED ground wire to the ground wire for the H4 bulb inside the bucket and cut off the wire for the parking light option so that I will only have one wire to the LED and hopefully by giving up the parking light option I can get the fourth wire through the braided cable. But first I want to try the thicker stock flex cable whoich might allow all six wires or certainly five using a common ground wire. Boxstr, I am sorry to not use your neat LED solution but the separation between the H4 area and the LED area is partitioned off here and I wanted to avoid fabrication with my associated foibles. The two circles on the firewall are special aluminum rims around rubber grommets for the heater hoses.

Don Shillady
Retired SCientist/teen rodder