So---With Visa card in hand I called Gennie Shifter---

And ordered up a polished stainless, dropped and V'eed headlight bar for the Wild Canary this morning. (V'eed to clear the 32 grillshell) Ever since I built the car, there has been something that looked just a bit "off" about the front of the car. Although the headlight bar I used (a Henry original) sets level, one end of it has more bend in it than the other. --I really should have noticed this when I built the car, because I had to redrill the 2 holes in the fender support bracket on the drivers side, about 1" lower than their stock position to get the bar to set level. (This means that when I install the new bar, I'm probably going to have to "move" 2 holes in the friggin fender and repaint the area---Damn, damn, damn!!!:CRY: :CRY: ) I just put in a bid for a set of original forged front fender brackets on E-Bay, and if I "win" the bid, I'll be all ready for a mid winter project. Wish me luck guys!!!---Brian

ouch! good luck

Good luck,,,,,hay whats two little holes to work after seeing the great finish you did the first time. If your like me there will be more changes over the life of the build, (which never seems to get done). The way I figure the car will be done once they bury me.
Brad

Well, so far I like this 1-800-hotrodding. The headlight bar came in this morning, and it really looks like a quality piece. I had to run out and do a quick mock-up, and this is what it looks like---and what it cost. As near as I can tell, it will drop the headlights about 5" and move them about 2" towards the front of the car, but will keep them the same distance apart as before.

See, and you were just looking for something to keep you busy........now you've found it. :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE:

Nice looking bar, I like the look and the drop. Not cheap, but nice quality rarely is. Post some more pictures as you go along.

Don

Now if I can just win the set of original front fender brackets off e-bay----and IF they are the right ones to fit my car---

that looks sweet ...

See how easy that was!! :LOL: :LOL:

Brian, I just noticed your pinstriping. I like it. I am going to get some put on my T also to dress it up. Hope I get as good of a job as you did.

Don

I like the way it seem's to lower the profile of the front. Money well spent.

Ron

Jeez Denny---Thanks. I hope it looks that good when I actually make the change.---Brian

I've had mine apart for "other work" for so long I had forgotten what it looked like installed on a car. Methinks the price has risen - a lot since I bought mine. I really like the pinstripes - my screamin' orange will need something to break it up. And yes, it is orange, the flourescent lighting screws up the camera and turns it much yellower

At least they aren't calling your car PINK. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Funny how the camera alters the shades, huh?

I love orange on a rod. A couple of years ago at Turkey Run it seemed orange was the color of choice that year. Just a cool hot roddy color for sure.

Don

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

At least they aren't calling your car PINK. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Funny how the camera alters the shades, huh?

I love orange on a rod. A couple of years ago at Turkey Run it seemed orange was the color of choice that year. Just a cool hot roddy color for sure.

Don

---

I think the Coast to Coast and OZE '37 phantoms are almost universally a shade of orange - but for sure, not a lot of '31s are bright orange. A big change after the ho-hum bronze metallic of which I still have 4 quarts of DuPont ChromaBase ($500!!!) left (maybe paint the lawn mower??)

I like the orange!!! :3dSMILE:

Dave Brisco

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dangeroustoy

I like the orange!!! :3dSMILE:

Dave Brisco

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I understand !!!

Brian, Haven't seen the Wild Canary for quite a while, and now it's sporting pinstriping, not just any pinstriping, but really NICE pinstriping. Looks great.:3dSMILE:

Bob---you just haven't seen the Wild Canary close up, thats all. I had that pinstriping done about 2 months after I got the car on the road, three years ago. The fellow who did it did a truly remarkable job.---It was him that painted "Wild Canary" on the back of the cab, at the same time the pinstriping was done. I did a big "picture post" on it at the time, but you must have missed it.---Brian

Hi Brian,

Actually, I always was jealous that you had an original light bar! I would like to have a few original pieces on my '29 A but so far it is all repo! I have the kind of dropped bar that is "bent down" with a kink and I took it off for the paint job and have not put it back on yet but it is tricky to get the bolts to line up with the holes in the 'glass fenders so I am not looking forward to that hassle. I am interested in your front turn signals, they seem to be the larger size "Mr. Roadster" amber lights. It would seem you had to drill through the top of the frame for the mount but they are a bit shrouded down in the fender valley. I am just wondering how far to the side they can be seen from the side in terms of side angle? I have not solved the problem of front tutn signals yet so I am looking over other cars for that feature.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Brian, I must have missed it, because it is certainly nice. I remember when you had the Wild Canary painted on the RP, but really didn't recall the fender candy. But then again, I've been plagued with CRS for several years and that could be the reason for my memory or lack their of.:eek: :LOL: :LOL:

Damn!!! Damn!!! Damn!!! Some slippery slug sneaked onto e-bay after I went to bed last night and outbid me by $1 friggin dollar and won the fender support brackets I wanted. Surely one of you old die hard model A rodders must have a set of 28 or 29 forged front fender support brackets that you can sell me for this project---Huh??? Huh??? Send me an email.---Brian

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Shillady

Hi Brian,

Actually, I always was jealous that you had an original light bar! I would like to have a few original pieces on my '29 A but so far it is all repo! I have the kind of dropped bar that is "bent down" with a kink and I took it off for the paint job and have not put it back on yet but it is tricky to get the bolts to line up with the holes in the 'glass fenders so I am not looking forward to that hassle. I am interested in your front turn signals, they seem to be the larger size "Mr. Roadster" amber lights. It would seem you had to drill through the top of the frame for the mount but they are a bit shrouded down in the fender valley. I am just wondering how far to the side they can be seen from the side in terms of side angle? I have not solved the problem of front tutn signals yet so I am looking over other cars for that feature.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

---

Hi Don---Nice to hear from you. The signal lights that I used did indeed require that a hole be drilled thru the top of the frame rail.---And no, they can not be seen from the side---only from the front. I bought them thru Hortons rod shop in Milton Ontario, and they come in 3 sizes-- Mine are the largest, being 2 1/2" wide x 2" high, part number HR-13302-TS--and if you want my original headlight bar, you can have it----it may require a bit of heating and beating to make it perfectly symetrical, but its your for asking.---And if you know anybody with a set of 28/29 forged front fender brackets----

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DennyW

What was the ebay number for the auction Brian ?

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I don't know what the number was Denny, but here's a link to the page telling me I'd been outbid.---Brian


http://cgi.ebay.com:80/ebaymotors/ws...NA:MOTORS:1123

Thanks Denny---They look like the ones I need. I did put a bid in soon as I seen your post, but knowing my luck with ebay, I have about as much chance as a snowball in that hot place---

What I want to know is, what the heck did the people who built the kazillion fenderless model A coupes and roadsters that are running around USA do with the fender braces off them???

Hi Brian,

Well I would have used a stock bar if I had it but now I have the bent lowered bar; thanks for the offer. Everything takes longer than expected! I hope soon to be finished with the windshield and associated parts and then get back to work to finish the firewall. The GM type headlight buckets with the little light in the top are really the best type of turn signals but $450 is too much when I already have chrome buckets so I will have to keep thinking about the front turn signals. The problem is that I can drill a hole in the frame but since it is rectangular tubing there is no way to get a nut on the light mount inside the tubular frame. Maybe there is a way to hang the turn signals down under the headlight bolts with a threaded coupler. Anybody out there done the trick of using the headlight bolts for the turn signals? I have the repro steel channel front fender braces but the fiberglass of the fender is so thick that I had to cut off about 1/2" of the end of the brace to get it to tuck under the edge of the fender and that means I only have the light bar bolts holding the brace. It has been a long time since I have seen the forged brackets but I could not use them anyway since they would be too long for the 'glass fenders. 14" front tires clear the underside of the fender easily but I think if I had 15" tires they might scrape on the brace channel on a hard bump. I am just saying this for other folks who have to use the repro channel steel braces under 'glass fenders. Brian I really appreciate your pictures! Your pin striping is right up there with the old Von Dutch stripes, outstanding stripes!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Okay, I'm gettin' desperate now!!! Time to pull out my stock of "things to trade for fender support brackets". Here we have an original 30/31 chrome radiator shell, which some NOB has spray painted flat black at some point in the ancient past, and a really nice steel front 30/31 splash apron that I walked a hundred miles thru the mud to purchase at the Barrie flea market 4 years ago. (That was before I realized that there was a difference in the 28/29 and 30/31 splash aprons). I also will throw in a slightly lopsided original model A headlight bar which currently resides on the front of my car. If someone wants to trade, I will trade all that for a set of 28/29 original fender support brackets. (I am holding in reserve, one slightly used 3 year old Tomcat which is declawed, and a 24 year old daughter (who I hope hasn't been used much), although she still has her claws and should at least be worth a rebuilt smallblock).---Brian (daughter has refused to be photographed)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brianrupnow

Okay, I'm gettin' desperate now!!! ...............................................at least be worth a rebuilt smallblock).---Brian (daughter has refused to be photographed)

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Brian,
Why not give Dick Spadaro Early Ford Reproductions a call at 1-800-222-3248. Most of his stuff is '32 and newer but he has a treasure trove of odds and ends in his barn. And it's his dime with the 1-800 number :eek:
http://www.dickspadaro.com/

I Won!!! I won!!! I won!!!! In fact, I think I've won twice. I just won a set in an Ebay auction, and a gentleman from California is sending me a set in trade for my old headlight bar. This feels so good!!! I will keep the best set for my project, and flog the others on ebay again, or else put them with my other "extra" model A Ford parts for future trading value. Im so thrilled that I get to keep my tomcat---not so sure about the daughter--no, no, I didn't really say that---

Darned it. I had dibs on that cat. :mad: :3dSMILE: :3dSMILE: None of ours are Canadian.

Don

Brian,
Congratulations - finally

If you have 'glass fenders you might have to do a bit of modifications - like cut about .375-.500 out of the mid point, then weld back to make 'em fit without pushing the side of the fender out from a vertical position. At least there is no IFS to go around.

I did kinda like the cat though - I already have enough daughters - three - and that much of the time is about 2.75 too many.

Does anybody know what the story is in regards to the material these things are made of? I see that people refer to the 28/29 series brackets as being cast, while they are calling the 30/31 series "forged".--And I have seen either 30 or 31 original equipment braces that are made from a pressed steel similar to the aftermarket ones that I am currently using. Its been many, many, years since I had a whole darn bunch of model A Fords during my high school years, and to be honest, the fender support brackets aren't something that you pay that much attention to.---Brian

Okay---I didn't plan on doing this untill mid winter, but my new friend in California who wants my headlight bar wants it NOW!!! (Can't say as I blame him.) I have had a couple of requests to make this into a tech article, so here are the first disassembly shots. There is a bit of a secret disclosed here---When you buy a set of the flexible stainless steel headlight wire covers like I used, they supply you with a nice rubber grommet to put in the side of your grillshell, but nothing to attach it to the hollow threaded bolt that that holds the headlight bucket onto the headlight bar. However there is a ferrule that will slide up over the end of this 1/2" diameter hollow bolt, where it extends down past the nut that holds everything together. Once I had everything wired properly, and tested, I mixed up some really thick 2-part epoxy, coated the outside of the 1/2" bolt (below the nut) with it, slid the ferrule over it, and taped it into place with masking tape for an hour. Once the tape is removed, it makes a really clean installation. This has worked fine for the last 3 years, but has given me reason to learn a whole new set of words while taking things back apart. Actually, it came apart easier than I thought it would, without wrecking anything. I always splice the wires inside the bucket, as you can not get 3 wires with splices down thru that flexible conduit. Also, as you can see, I always solder my wire connections, then sleeve them with shrink wrap, then use some black electrical tape over that (I wear a belt and suspenders too). I have color coded the wires with some red and black magic marker (this doesn't show up real well in the pictures) because I have to "unsolder" the wires to get the headlight buckets off, and when I get the new headlight bar back on, I don't want to play "guess and blow fuses" when I hook the headlights back up again.---And for those of you who were commenting on the pinstriping on my fenders, I put a shot of my dash in there too).----Brian

Okay---Headlights are now dismounted, and I am going to show another great hotrod secret. This is why I was able to undo the headlight bolts without desroying anything, even though they were coated with epoxy to attach the headlight wire covers.----Anti-Seize compound. I swear by this stuff---I use it on virtually everything that bolts together on a hotrod. Because I know (thru bitter experience) that EVERYTHING you assemble on a hotrod is going to have to come apart again sooner or later. And, no, grease just doesn't cut it. In the ancient past I used to use grease on things that I assembled, then 5 years later found I had to use breaker bars, cold chissels, and oxy-acetylene to get the damned things apart. This Anti-seize compound seems to last forever!!!

And here is a picture of the existing fender brace in place---you can see where the inside of my tire has been scrubbing it on real severe "parking lot" turns. For those of you who never really thought about it, the two bolts and nuts that you see in the picture are the same 2 bolts that hold the headlight bar in place. The fender itself is sandwiched in between the headlight bar and the fender support bracket.

So there ya go, my new California friend!!! As soon as the original front fender support brackets that you are sending to me get here, the headlight bar is ready to see that warm California sun!!!

The "winters project" came a long way this morning---and me sicker than a pig with a damn chest cold!!! BUT---I have a question----Is anybody else out there running one of these types of bar from Gennie Shifter??? I have the new bar setting in place, and when setting in the holes that were already drilled, it is setting "dead nuts" level from side to side.---Problem is, it seems that the "cups" that hold the headlights are rotated too far foreward.---yet I have about 1 1/2" clearance between the front grill bar and the inside edge of the new headlight bar, which seems about right. I could probably correct a bit of the "cup rotation" issue by loosening the headlight support bars and swinging them back towards the rear of the car at the top, and drilling new holes in my front fenders---but that creates one Hell of a pile of pain in terms of bodyworking and repainting the front fenders, for the very small ammount of rotation it would buy me. I took one of my Kingbee headlights and set it in place, and with a bit of judicious trimming in the area where the bolt goes thru the round bart on the bottom (see picture), I will be able to rotate the headlight into the correct position without moving the headlight bar at all, or screwing up my painted fendsers.---Just wondering if anybody else has been down this road.---Brian.

Denny--I'm gettin old, and kinda stoopid---but---It seems to me that somewhere in the last year, I seen a thread either here or else over on the HAMB where somebody was complaining about exactly the same thing---the cups on an aftermarket headlight bar being rotated incorrectly. It could be that all the bars Gennie Shifter makes are "out" by a few degrees, but one thing for Damn sure---theyr'e never going to admit it. They even put a disclaimer in the instructions which basically says---if our headlight bar doesn't fit your car, it could be caused by distortion from boxing your frame, fender support brackets installed incorrectly, manufacturing tolerances, Blah, Blah, Blah----our bar is made to original Ford specs in the mounting flange area--Don't come whining to us!!! Still---the bar is a beautifull peice of work, and its not so far out that its a disaster. If I can bring this off without having to repaint my front fenders, I'm going to be happier than a pig in mud!!! I don't mind having to do a little creative trimming on the headlight pots, Hell, I don't even mind if I've got to whittle out a couple of tapered shims from stainless to get a perfect fit bertween the flange on the bar and my fenders. Its going to look beautifull, and as someone else on the board said (I think it was Don shillady)---There really isn't any such thing as a "bolt on and walk away" aftermarket hotrod part.---Right!!!

Denny---I used 15 dollars worth of oxy-acetylene on that old bar and made it fit my car before I started filling pits and painting on it. I paid $25 for that old bar at the Barrie fleamarket. I'd be pretty scared to do the same thing to something I just paid $300 for---:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Gennie Shifter headlight bar with the light cups tipped forward just like yours , with Lokar conduits for my '31 Brookville. Sorry about the quality of one of them but...

There is an aluminum fitting for the grille shell instead of the stinkin' lousy rubber grommet that slid down the conduit on an earlier car.

The '30 - '31 cars all had stamped steel fender braces, the '28 and some '29s had forged braces.

DaveW---thank you for the confirming photograph---at least now I know its not something I've done wrong. Can you tip your headlights back far enough to shine in the direction they are supposed to? If I don't modify my Kingbees, they are only going to be good for close up examination of roadkill. Denny---quit laughing---
I just went out to the garage and checked with a machinists protractor---those damn cups are setting 22 degrees off horizontal----that has to be a flaw in the design of the headlight bar.