My From-Scratch project

actually, it was a standard 1935 Duesenberg SJ that was modified. It had the same 142.5 wheel base, with 19 inch rims.
I couldn't make one and have it street legal here in Michigan though, because according to the on-road vehicle inspection form required to obtain a VIN number, it is required to have 2 headlights if it has 4 wheels. Vehicles with 2 or three wheels are only required to have 1 headlight.

1935 Duesenberg SJ Mormon Meteor Speedster Specifications

engine Lycoming Straight-8
position Front Longitudinal
aspiration Centrifugal, Gear Driven Supercharger
valvetrain DOHC 4 Valves / Cyl
displacement 6876 cc / 419.6 cu in
bore 95.25 mm / 3.75 in
stroke 120.6 mm / 4.75 in
compression 5.2:1
power 238.6 kw / 320 bhp @ 4200 rpm
hp per litre 46.54 bhp per litre
bhp/weight 122.7 bhp per weight
torque 576.22 nm / 425 ft lbs @ 2400 rpm
redline 5200
drive wheels RWD
body / frame Steel over Steel Ladder Frame
front brakes Drums w/Hydrualic Assist
f brake size 381 mm / 15.0 in
rear brakes Drums w/Hydrualic Assist
r brake size 381 mm / 15.0 in
front wheels F 48.3 x 17.8 cm / 19 x 7 in
rear wheels R 48.3 x 17.8 cm / 19 x 7 in
front tire size 7.00x19
rear tire size 7.00x19
steering Ross Cam and Lever
f suspension Rigid Axle w/Semi-Elliptic Springs, Hydrualic Shock Absorbers
r suspension Live Axle w/Semi-Elliptic Springs, Hydrualic Shock Absorbers
weight 2608 kg / 5750 lbs
wheelbase 3620 mm / 142.5 in
front track 1425 mm / 56.1 in
rear track 1425 mm / 56.1 in
transmission Warner Hy-Flew 3-Speed Manual
gear ratios 2.485:1, 1.397:1, 1.000:1
final drive 3.8, 4.1 4.3 or 4.7:1
top speed 207.6 kph / 129 mph
0 - 60 mph 10.0 seconds
0 - 100 mph 20.0 seconds
epa city/hwy 10 mpg

got this info from another web site, so I am assuming it's correct. Also, this must be the current specs, as it says top speed is only 129mph with a straight-8 where with the V12, the 24 hour average speed for the 24 hour record was 153.8 mph.

Sam

The last time I went to the Hershey meet was about 15 years ago but I recall there was a guy there manufacturing full fiberglass replica bodies for Auburn Speedsters which also have a swoopy style. They look pretty good as the boat tail form but the bodies were not cheap so you need to look at the other thread on the "Roofus Special" if you want to fabricate a less expensive body with a LOT of innovative body work or try to find some person with an unfinished kit car body. I am just saying this to let you know there may already be 'glass bodies out there if you look in Hemmings or other "classic" builder sites. Another approach might be to look at plywood boat plans as viewed upside down. Depending on what you plan for fenders (or not) a 12' motor boat with a v-bottom might look pretty good upside down and those plywood plans usually involve only a few large pieces over a v-frame; the wood can be painted or varnished for a unique "woody" look! Just to let you know that I have also dreamed about various home made bodies but your welding ability could make it all possible. Have you studied the Roofus Special thread?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

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Originally Posted by Don Shillady

The last time I went to the Hershey meet was about 15 years ago but I recall there was a guy there manufacturing full fiberglass replica bodies for Auburn Speedsters which also have a swoopy style. They look pretty good as the boat tail form but the bodies were not cheap so you need to look at the other thread on the "Roofus Special" if you want to fabricate a less expensive body with a LOT of innovative body work or try to find some person with an unfinished kit car body. I am just saying this to let you know there may already be 'glass bodies out there if you look in Hemmings or other "classic" builder sites. Another approach might be to look at plywood boat plans as viewed upside down. Depending on what you plan for fenders (or not) a 12' motor boat with a v-bottom might look pretty good upside down and those plywood plans usually involve only a few large pieces over a v-frame; the wood can be painted or varnished for a unique "woody" look! Just to let you know that I have also dreamed about various home made bodies but your welding ability could make it all possible. Have you studied the Roofus Special thread?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

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I don't really plan to do one as complicated as the "meteor". Just found it on a site about Duesenbergs, Thought it was interesting. Ive been wanting to do something a little different than a bucket roadster. I have about 145" wheel base and I've been thinking about one like a Duesenberg with the front and rear seat, or maybe a boat-tail. I've tried to build a couple wooden boats over the last few years, but never had room for them in my garage, and the weather ruined them before I could get the fiberglass over the seams, and the body covered with epoxy. I'm also not really that good with the wood working. I cut up my last attempt just last week, and took it over to my dads house to burn up, so I really dont want to look at another wooden boat for a while:whacked: I can weld pretty good. I have an ARC welder but I dont have 220 at my house, so I can only use it at my dads house. I also have a wire feed welder that I can use at my house, so I've been using it alot. I think my biggest worries is the compound curves though. so I'm thinking about something without alot of them. There's a website called hotrodders.com that has a bunch of guys journals, and a couple of them show some metal working tips, and building tips that I've been looking at, as well as the ones here.
I think if I make up my mind now on what to built, I'll more than likely change it 5 more times before I start the body. What ever I finally decide, I know it will be "different".:HMMM:
Oh yeah, and I have been reading the Roofus one too.

I'm working on my 4-point rear end right now. Making the brackets for the rear bars, the shock and spring mounts. I'll have a picture of it in a day or two when it's done.

Sam

Here's some pictures of the rear end and how I'm doing it. I ran out of 2x3 tubing, and I still need to make the mounts for the two top bars. I plan to make another cross-bar on the frame and mount them to it.

If you think somethings wrong with the way I am doing this, or if you have a suggestion, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!! I've been doing this based on what I can get, and what I can see that other people do. I've never done this before.

The first drawing is how I plan to do the mounts for the top 2. I'm not an artist, but I think you can get the basic idea.:whacked:

Sam

couple more pics....the 4 bars are "top links" from the Tractor Supply. They were alot cheeper than buying ladder bars or "4-bars" from online, and they're heavier, so They should be okay I think.

This is gonna sound harsh, but I think it is the truth....

Tractor links have no business on a car. They will get sloppy really quick. 4x4 guys have tried them and wasted them on the first use.

As far as all of the mounting brackets go. You should have researched other people's work. It would have saved you some re-work.

your lower shock mounts are pretty much guarrantied to fail....and will damage the link mounts when they do twist off.

The top links should angle out and mount on the frame rails for simplicity and structural integrity. the stepped crossmember you drew would need to be braced pretty well with diagonals (front to back) to handle braking and acceleration loads.

Copy somebody elses proven designs.

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Originally Posted by Flipper_1938

This is gonna sound harsh, but I think it is the truth....

Tractor links have no business on a car. They will get sloppy really quick. 4x4 guys have tried them and wasted them on the first use.

As far as all of the mounting brackets go. You should have researched other people's work. It would have saved you some re-work.

your lower shock mounts are pretty much guarrantied to fail....and will damage the link mounts when they do twist off.

The top links should angle out and mount on the frame rails for simplicity and structural integrity. the stepped crossmember you drew would need to be braced pretty well with diagonals (front to back) to handle braking and acceleration loads.

Copy somebody elses proven designs.

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Sure it sounds harsh, but it's very helpful, and it's exactly the kind of things I want people to let me know if they have an opinion about it. So thankyou .
as for the shock mounts, I had doubts about them, but another guy that lives by me that builds cars looked at them and insists they should be okay. (I still had doubts though). I think that I'll be putting a second piece of angle on the backside. I may redo the front lower bar mounts on the side of the frame too. I don't think I like them, and I need to move them back about 1 1/2 inches anyways. I already did the cross member, and have re-enforced it alot. I have a picture of what I did here in this post. I may put a couple bars at an angle from the top, back to the rear bar of the frame. I may be changing the top rear bar mounts too, so there is more travel available....maybe use 2x4 instead of 2x3 and raise the ends of the bars about an inch.
I wont be off-roadiing with this, and I wont be drag racing, so I'm not sure the links will be a problem. I know a couple guys that have 4x4s and they beat the crap out of them. I'm not an engineer, and you may be right though. It's something that I can change if I have too. Most of this stuff, I have copied from other people though, like the spring mounts, 2x3 mounts for the 4 bars, upper shock mounts, and some other things
I ran out of welding wire , so I can't do any more until next friday when I get another check. Thanks again for your looking at this and your comments.

looking at it again, I may put a couple 8"x8" triangles for gussets at the front of the lower crossmember bars, horizontally, to the bottom rail of the frame.

Sam

here's what I plan to change...that's what's nice about "from scratch"....can always change it if needed
sam

I started some of the body. It will have the running boards, and I started the platform that the body sits on and mounts to. The main body should be about 54 inches wide. With the runninng boards, it will be about 74 inches. It wont have a tool box and battery box on the side. It might have the tool box but it will only be about 4 or 5 inches deep so no room for the battery. Still havent decided if it will have one spare tire on the back or 2 on the sides. Depends on if it turns out to be a Phaeton style, or a roadster style. I can get 12 foot 1x2 tubing for $8 each, but I cant get any 1x1 cheap so I have to see what I can do. Also, I need to look for some sheet metal. I may have to wait until I get home from work in December. I think I said before, that I work in the nuclear energy field, so I have to work in Nebraska at a couple nukes from 11Sep to 05Dec and then i'll have the winter off again. I think I'll be getting the engine rebuilt this winter too.

Sam

Another thing you might want to do is take the springs out so you can raise/lower the suspension through it's full range of motion. Check for binding and make sure the pinion stays at a consistent angle throughout the suspensions travel. Better to find out now if you have the geometry right before you get too far along.

Also, if it were mine I would build some adjustment into the 4 bar mounting brackets so you have the ability to adjust IC, just in case the static setting you have there needs tweaking.
just my 2 pennies.

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Originally Posted by pro70z28

Also, if it were mine I would build some adjustment into the 4 bar mounting brackets so you have the ability to adjust IC, just in case the static setting you have there needs tweaking.
just my 2 pennies.

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Thanks for the 2 pennies. I'll do that just to make sure.
Sam

I think I want to do something like this. These are model SSJ duesenbergs. There was only 2 built (these two). They were the only ones that were originally supercharged from the factory, even though of the 10 SJ's that were made, a couple more had superchargers added later on. The red one was driven by Clark Gable, but Gary Cooper owned his (the 2-tone silver one). Clark Gable was loaned his to drive for publicity.

Sam

I found a seat that works perfect today. I found it in the back of my suburban. I've never used the third seat, and it's always in the way sitting in the garage, or in the way when I want to haul something, so now it comes in handy. I might change the hook type brackets on the bottom, or I may just keep them so I can remove the seat when I need too. The steering column from that '51 ford will work too, but I'll have to lengthen the arm that goes from the gear box up to the U-shaped steering bar up by the front wheel. It should work good as long as I can make it so it doesn't interfere with the exhaust.

Sam

Good start, keep them pics and posts coming.

You know windows and a body are really over rated! Just start her up like that and go for a cruise! Get that open air motorcycle feeling, without any helmet laws to interfere with the outdoors experience!:D:LOL:

here's another pic of what i did today. got the drive shaft tunnel in, so I could set the seat where it has to be. It's up 6 inches from the floor. I think I will lower the tunnel a little in the front though. I think I might be able to lower it about 2 inches. got the hoop around the back of the seat and the rear door jams in. will work on the curves from the hoop back to the rear tomorrow maybe. have to stop and do some thinking though to figure a couple things out.

Sam

If your goal is to have triangulated four-link that doesn't need a trac-bar, you should take a good look under coil-sprung GM cars....... A difference that I notice is that while your upper bars angle inward to the differential (as they should), you lower bars also angle inward from the chassis to the axle tubes. I think the lowers should mount more inboard on the frame and angle outward toward the ends of the axle tubes.

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Originally Posted by AzDon

If your goal is to have triangulated four-link that doesn't need a trac-bar, you should take a good look under coil-sprung GM cars....... A difference that I notice is that while your upper bars angle inward to the differential (as they should), you lower bars also angle inward from the chassis to the axle tubes. I think the lowers should mount more inboard on the frame and angle outward toward the ends of the axle tubes.

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I just looked at the pictures that I have posted, and the lower bars do look like they're angled, but it's just the pictures make them look like that. They're actually perpendicular to the axle/parallel to the frame and each other. the balls in the links swivel a few degrees each way for side movement of the links, but the top ones are mounted at an angle that makes all four balls on the top ones swiveled to their maximum angle, so there isnt any movement. also, when I push sideways on the frame, there's no movement. There is good up/down movement and no binding that I can see for the movement of the springs/shocks/links. I'm hoping that means it's okay.
Thanks for your thoughts, and if you think I might be wrong in my reasoning, please let me know.

Sam

The mounts on the top bars should be angled to keep the "ball" centered in it's range of motion.... BTW...Looks like they are implement type swivels???? Might want to consider losing them in place of some urethene bushed rod ends.... The solid swivels are very noisy, wear quickly, and require constant attention to keep them clean and lubed.... Also, the rear shocks will work much better when mounted at an angle of 15 to 25 degrees, and the lower end of the shock mounted as far outboard as possible.... Vertical shocks and coilovers are best on drag cars where the ride is not a consideration.....

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Originally Posted by bluefishfoot

I just looked at the pictures that I have posted, and the lower bars do look like they're angled, but it's just the pictures make them look like that. They're actually perpendicular to the axle/parallel to the frame and each other. the balls in the links swivel a few degrees each way for side movement of the links, but the top ones are mounted at an angle that makes all four balls on the top ones swiveled to their maximum angle, so there isnt any movement. also, when I push sideways on the frame, there's no movement. There is good up/down movement and no binding that I can see for the movement of the springs/shocks/links. I'm hoping that means it's okay.
Thanks for your thoughts, and if you think I might be wrong in my reasoning, please let me know.

Sam

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I'm putting a Willys wagon body on a GM "metric" chassis (82 Cutlass) because the steering and suspension will work as if GM engineered it!
Also because it fits....I'd love to have the confidence needed to attempt to design, engineer and build my own chassis and suspension, but I don't.
It's great that you have the cajones and ambition to just "go for it"!
Good Luck!
Don

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Originally Posted by AzDon

I'm putting a Willys wagon body on a GM "metric" chassis (82 Cutlass) because the steering and suspension will work as if GM engineered it!
Also because it fits....I'd love to have the confidence needed to attempt to design, engineer and build my own chassis and suspension, but I don't.
It's great that you have the cajones and ambition to just "go for it"!
Good Luck!
Don

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My oldest brother and a couple other guys keep trying to convince me that I should buy a fiberglass body and put it on a S10 chassis or just buy a t-bucket kit. I found some detailed build journals on some other sites, and that's what got me interested in the first place.
I don't think I have any special "cajones",I think if I had a specific design for anything, I'd probly screw it up and get discouraged, and give up. I don't really have money for kits and special parts and stuff like that. For instance,
a radiator for a 32 ford is like $450, but if you get a "generic" radiator with the same basic dimensions but just doesnt have the "32 ford" name stuck with it, you can get it for $200. I just use what I can find, and use ideas that I find around on the internet and figure out how to make them work.
If I dont like something, I can always change it, because I don't have any special design I have to follow. Some people might think it's more of a "ratty old rod" when it's done, but who cares?:)
I dont care if I win any prizes or anything with it.

Sam

this was the boat that I was building before I started the car. It was about 19 feet long, and was going to be a flat-bottom with double dagger board. I had a 12 foot wooden mast and was going to make it ketch-rigged with the mailsail, jib, and possibly a spinnaker.(I had a 4 foot widow-maker for the front.) It had rained alot this spring and summer up here in MI., so the water was getting to the wood and it wouldnt stop raining long enough for me to fiberglass the seams and coat the whole thing with resin. I needed the room in my driveway, and I was worried the landlord was going to complain, so I got rid of it. I might start a
flat bottom light schooner next spring.

Sam

I'm back from work and off for the winter now. spent a bunch of money when I got home on stuff for the garage and parts.
I got an english wheel, air compressor, sand blast cabinet, and 36" break. had to clean out my garage to make room for all of it.
I also got a bunch of parts for the car. I'm hoping to get the front end done this winter before I go back to work in march. It's too cold out to do alot in the driveway, and I dont have a big garage, so I might not get much else done. I got the adapter kit to put the disk breaks on the '51 ford spindles. I need to clean up the spindles now and put all that togeather. I got some shocks and I need to make mounts for them and figure out how I want them.
My swedged tubes should be comming tomorrow for the front 4-bars, and 4 LH thread heims(I already had the RH ones.) so I can build them and make the mounts for them.
I looked around for 5-5.5 pattern wheels for cheap, and found 4 15x12 aluminum wheels for $130 on Craigslist and grabbed them. only had a few choices for tires for them, and I didnt want the big 33 or 39 inch Jeep wheels, so I got Nitto n555 extreem drag radials (325/50-15). I had a choice of the Nittos or BF Goodrich in that size, and the BFs were rated less for wear and speed, and heat resistance and they cost more. I will only be using them for around town anyways, and not racing. I'll put more pictures up as soon as I get some stuff done.

Sam

I got the breaks mounted and tryed to put the tires and wheels on, and found out i needed longer studs because the mounting face on the aluminum wheels is about 7/8" thick. replaced all the studs on the front and the back, and had to get new larger lug nuts for them. then I found out that my 4-way lug wrench didnt fit the new lugs. you cant see it in the pictures, but the passenger side rear wheel is not changed yet. still have to take the axle out, and change the lugs. I got my heims and rods last nite, so I can make some radius rods/4-bars for the front, and I have to make top shock mounts.It started raining, so I stopped for a while.

Sam

I got a tie rod and ends and put them on, and put on the 4-bars. It's wet and cold out alot lately, so I have been sitting inside wishing I could work on it more.
I got the other axle off the back, and switched the studs and put the other wheel and tire on the back. I think I'll have to put the engine and transmission back in so that I can try to align the front end. Sorry about the bad pictures. I took more but they came out really blurry and they werent worth posting. I'll have more later.:whacked:
sam

Looking good, boy that thing looks long!

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Originally Posted by falconvan

Looking good, boy that thing looks long!

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Thanks. From the center of the front wheel, to the center of the back wheel (the wheel base??) is 150.5 inches. longer than my suburban center to center, but the whole thing is about 3 feet shorter than my suburban.

Sam

Sam, Quite a project so far,that thing will be HUUUUUUUUGE!. I know your far from finnished with your suspension but using a 4 link on the front with a straight axle (especially with coils)you will need a panhard bar to complete the front suspension.If not, the thing will be all over the place.:eek:

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Originally Posted by ponchotom89

Sam, Quite a project so far,that thing will be HUUUUUUUUGE!. I know your far from finnished with your suspension but using a 4 link on the front with a straight axle (especially with coils)you will need a panhard bar to complete the front suspension.If not, the thing will be all over the place.:eek:

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Thank for the suggestion. I was thinking that too, but I wasnt sure. I think I'll put one on there. I might change those coil springs to heavier ones too. These are only 750lbs each, so 1500 for the front and 1500 for the rear. and I know the engine I have will be pretty heavy... a 360FE that I want to change the crank and rods to make a 390FE. As for it being huge, I need alot of legroom.....(belly room too)....I'm a little over 6 feet tall and 300lbs, so a t-bucket is a little cramped for me...lol
sam

back working on it again....too cold this winter to work outside, then had to work at Vogtle nuke plant in GA and Callaway nuke in MO from feb to last week. off again for the summer and happy that it's stopped raining. took these pics today. got some sheet metal...told it was 18ga but turned out to be 14ga. decided to use it to cover the main floor part of the frame....then the body will sit on top of it. I have a 36 inch break, but the pieces are about 70 long...so managed to bend it by hand sort of. got one side done and still need to do the other. I'm just covering it over...not putting a storage/tool box in. might run the exhaust down through the fenders and collect into one...and run it down through there, comming out in front of the rear wheels. then I'll have the long front fenders and the regular rear fenders. Just some ideas I had. sorry about the bright pictures....too sunny here today

It`s been a while since I last checked this thread.Are you fabbing your own body or do you have plans to drop a big Lincoln body on that huuuuuuuuge frame.:D

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Originally Posted by ponchotom89

It`s been a while since I last checked this thread.Are you fabbing your own body or do you have plans to drop a big Lincoln body on that huuuuuuuuge frame.:D

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when I was a kid, my mom always cut my hair. she would screw up one side so take some off the other side to match...I always ended up with a buzz cut(she wasn't very good at flat tops either). She always said that "once sam gets something into his bald little head, you'll have a hell of a time getting it out of there"....well....I got it in my head to do the body myself....got alot of figuring out to do though yet......

Sam, I`m also in the process of building a long wheelbase car. Mine isnt quite as long as yours. Mine is 136" c/c wheels. I have a 37 Ford sedan body on it with a 78 Cadillac drive train.It sits on a 39 Pontiac frame with a suicide straight axle stubbed on it.I`ll try to attach a photo.

pretty cool....only about 14 inches shorter than my wheel base. my whole reason in the first place for making mine so big was I'm about 6 ft and 300 lbs so I have a hard time sitting in a t-bucket or one of those smaller ones. when I first seen them I was suprized how small they are. another thing is I wasnt completely sure if I wanted to put in a rear seat, or make it a truck with a box in the back. I'm sure I just want it to be a roadster though. it will be like driving from the back(second) seat of my suburban...that's about how long it will stick out in the front. I really need to get some of them huge headlights too....

got off my butt today and worked some more on the car/project/thing. I finally have an idea of what it will look like. I sat around for quite a while and kept saying i was going to work on it. then today I did, and didn't want to stop because I remembered how much fun it was. I'm sure I'll be back out there all day tomorrow too. cant wait.:3dSMILE:

been working on this alot lately. changed a few things. when I sold my suburban, the guy wanted the third seat with it, so I got a pair of second row bucket seats out of a 2002 oldsmobile van from the "previously used stuff yard" and made them fit. had to take out the drive shaft tunnel...didnt like it much anyways...and redid it with sheet metal instead of using the 1x1 tubing. started doing the body some, and like it so far. its really starting to look like a car....at least I think so. I'm not much at body work....never really did any. using 14 gage for the floor pans and fire wall, and 18 gage for the body. when I sit in the seat, the dash is about chin level, so the roof and windshield should only have to be about a foot higher:D I'll post more pictures soon........seats are not mounted yet...will have a second firewall right behind motor....battery and master cylender, etc will sit inside between 2 walls. thinking about putting a removable plate on the side so I can get to the battery and stuff. just an idea for the grill...want it BIG so it looks big when it comes toward ya. has to have the HUGE headlights too.

forgot a picture...

looks like it is really coming along. please keep posting pictures.

started trying to figure out the back end.....I know the welds are ugly...I'll fix 'em when it stops raining outside.looks like it will work though....hope so anyways:whacked: