My From-Scratch project

Hi. My names Sam and I'm new here. I've been looking around the internet for a week or 2 and have decided to try to build a car from scratch. no kits, no donor frames or restored bodies. Build my own frame and do all the sheet metal work and everything on the body. I picked up a '68 Ford 360FE engine from the junk yard, and a trans from a '62 Galaxie. Then I've started building the basic frame from 2x3x3/16 tube.(couldnt get 2x3x1/8). I have the motor mounts done, but havent figured out my final motor position yet, so theyre just stuck in there for now. made sure nothing would go lower than my frame (scrub line). I talked to a guy from the local donut shop today and he said he has a solid front axle (dropped I-beam?) with springs, tires, and all, and a rear end with tires and all from a '51 ford truck that I can have for FREE!! I just have to go get them tomorrow afternoon. I haven't decided what it will look like yet, but the frame is 32" wide, and 12'6" long. the rise in the back is about 18". I should have between 96" and 108" from the fire wall to the back of the frame to figure out a body. I'm working on turning that 360fe into a 390 also. This is my first project, so I dont know how it will turn out yet. I'm learning alot as I go. any suggestions are welcomed.

I have to find an image hosting place so I can stick in some pictures of it.

Wow, great score from the guy at the donut place. Definately keep us updted.

www.photobucket.com is a free image hoster and very easy to work with in my opinion.

here's what I have done so far......tried to make the pics small so I hope they dont turn up too big

sam


http://s948.photobucket.com/albums/a...current=2a.jpg

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guess the pictures didnt show.... heres links...
http://s948.photobucket.com/albums/a...current=5a.jpg
http://s948.photobucket.com/albums/a...current=4a.jpg
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sam

I think I would figure out what the car is going to be before you go too much further.

Might be best to have a plan before you start building... 32" is plenty wide for a frame, most I build are from 22" to 26"... Much easier to fit the wheelbase of the frame to the body then vice versa... Building from scratch is kewl, but as a first time project it can become quite overwhelming and frustrating, eventually wind up laying in the corner....

Decide on a theme, make a list of parts you'll need, then start building. Works for me anyways....

I have a few different ideas for the body, and I think I can get them all to work with the way I'm doing it so far. I've been going alot by how another guy did his, according to his internet journal of his build. I wasn't sure if I would get twin I-beams from a f150 for the front, or if I would have ifs, or a solid dropped axle, so I have to wait to permanently mount the engine until I have the front suspension in there. It all depends on what I can get cheap or free mostly. and I know that I'll have to work around a lot of things. I haven't really ever been good at making plans and sticking to them. I dont plan on making the body based on any specific year/make of car. It wont have many curves. I have a couple quick drawings of ideas that I made, but haven't decided on a specific one yet. mostly, I have ideas, and find what parts I can get, and work from there. I'll keep posting pictures on this thread as I go.

Sam

this is a couple "screwing around" sketches that I did a while ago. They all should work okay with this frame. back when I did these, a v-10 was available to me, but I decided against it. I'm not sure which one I like more. I even thought for a while about putting wood sides on one of these. these are just basic ideas though.

I went and got the front end and rear end from that '51 ford truck today. There was the front dropped axle with the hubs and steering linkage, and the rear end with the hubs. nothing was froze up and everything turned good. The guy even had the original steering gear box with steering wheel, and he let me have them for the same price....free! there's rust on everything, but I plan to tear everything apart tomorrow, and sand blast everything this weekend to see what I can clean up and use or what I have to replace. My frame is 32" wide, and the pads on the drop axle are 32" apart(to the outside bolts), so I think they'll work good. the rear end pads are about 42 inches apart, so I think I can get some coil springs to fit on there right .....we'll see

Sam

got the front end king pins out finally, and started cleaning it up. couldnt sand blast them like I wanted to, so I have been using a grinding wheel and a sand paper wheel on an angle grinder. Now I see why people send them out to be done....but I guess I can get it this way okay. I plan to use just a fine grit paper pad on a disk sander to shine them after I get them cleaned. does anyone know how it's usually done? I dont think I'll be getting them chromed. I forgot to take a picture of before I started on them, but I guess it's obvious what they started like. I'll take another one when I get done. (might be a while though)

Sam

Made a decision about what I want it to look like. I will need to extend the front of the frame a little to go over the front axle, so it will stay low, (that will give me my front spring perches too....I'll use coil springs.) ... and then extend it so it will go just past the front of the front tires. will be able to move my engine forward quite a bit too. Should make the frame about 15 feet long I think... and give me about 10 feet for the body which should be plenty long enough. Don't know if I can manage making the front fenders like in the picture, but I think I can manage the rear ones, and a tire mount for the side and running boards, and the body really doesn't have much of any curves. definitely has to have the huge headlights, spare tires, and a bunch of other things. may just make regular fenders for the front, with running boards all the way to them. any comments? Think I'm nuts yet?? Think of it as a sort-of chopped up Duesenburg J-type.....but from scratch. It does count as a hotrod if it's shiney, and loud?!?!

BWA HA HA HA!!!!

Sam
(still working on the front axle......comming along good)

try a wire wheel on that angle grinder to clean up the parts. it will clean them up pretty good without removing metal.

THanks 35fordcoupe for your suggestion. I'll try that.

anyone can help me tell if this a 31 spline rear end or will I have to take it apart to find out for sure?? I know it was from a 71 ford pickup. It doesnt have an ID tag on it. I know it's a standard case, not "N(nodular)", or "WAR". the bolts for the break plate are 3/4", and it's 61 1/4" from wheel mounting plate faces. Also, when I turn one axle, the opposite turns the other way...this means it's "posi" or "limited slip", right? I also cant find a ford part number but I got a manufacture date of 8J11 at DIF which puts it manufatcured in the same plant, the same week/year as my 360FE engine!!
I couldnt use the other rear end from the 51 ford PU so I called around and a guy at a salvage yard here said he had a bunch of 9" rears and I could have any one I wanted for $60. This is the one I grabbed. Everywhere else wanted $125 for 28 spline or $250 for 31 spline....or more.
I can use it either way, 28 or 31, but I just wondered if I got a good deal, or a REALLY good deal.

Sam

I believe that the 3/4" nuts on the break plate bolts mean large bearing housing...but not sure if that means 31 spline.

S

just found out if they spin opposite, it means regular, non-posi. also I was told that there wasnt any 9" posi rears, that if they spin the same way, it's because they were more than likely modified and welded togeather. but there was limited slip....just not true posi. was also told that if I really wanted to know about the spline, I would need to pull it apart to be 100% sure.

figured it out....took one of the axles out. have a ford 9" with large bearings...heavier axle....turned down last four inches to get 28 splines

works for me. just need to clean it up...and get a disk break w/emergency break kit for it.

S

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Originally Posted by bluefishfoot

just found out if they spin opposite, it means regular, non-posi. also I was told that there wasnt any 9" posi rears, that if they spin the same way, it's because they were more than likely modified and welded togeather. but there was limited slip....just not true posi. was also told that if I really wanted to know about the spline, I would need to pull it apart to be 100% sure.

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Posi, is a GM term for limited slip. what your talking about is a spool, which no factory 9" came with, that'a an aftermarket thing, and there not safe for the street ( in most cases )

thanks for the info Matt.
I know I called my brother in law in NC yesterday afternoon (he was at the top of the grand-stand at Daytona when he answered his cell phone) and this is what he was telling me about "welded together" maybe thats what he meant with what you were saying about the spool. I don't know a whole lot about these things, but with help from you guys and my brother ( who happens to be at the north slope of alaska right now, so I cant get ahold of him much) and my brother in law, I'm learning alot.
Thanks again

Sam

I'd like to say something about my big brother Bob. I hope it doesnt bore ya's. He has always worked on lawn mowers every since he was 4 or 5 and helped my dad. When he was in high school, his one teacher had him fix his car insted of taking an exam for the class because he said Bob would more than likely never care about the things he was told in "Problems Of Democracy" class which all seniors here in the local schools have to take. He got an "A" on the exam for fixing the car. He went into the U.S.Army(just like me and all the other men in my family) and was trained as a motor pool supply clerk. (I was a medical specialist, my dad was an engineer, and my other brother was a tank turret mechanic). In August of '90 he was at FT. Bragg, NC, and was sent to KKMC, Saudi Arabia for the Gulf War. Nobody there knew how to do the high level maint. on the vehicles, so Bob volunteered, even though he was just a "clerk". They gave him a sergeant for an assistant (Bob was sp4) and the 2 of them did the job. When I would write to him, he would tell me about the wrecker that he had with a .50cal machine gun on top that he drove. When he came home in '91, they gave him the Distinguished Service Cross for what he did over there. They said he went beyond the call of duty by volunteering for something he wasn't trained for. The 2 guys (Bob and the sergeant) kept the whole battalion 98% ready for the entire war. He spent 36 hours straight pulling vehicles out of the mud, and he up-righted a flat bed semi truck with several million dollars worth of satellite equipment without hurting anything, saving the equipment which they thought was ruined. (only Bob and one other person in the battalion got the DSC). He keeps his medals in his sock drawer. I seen them one time, but he doesnt talk about them. When he got home, they sent him to Ft. Richardson, Alaska, where he worked on heavy machinery in his spare time. They would also send him to different gold mines to fix equipment. I heard they would send a helecopter for him whenever they needed him. Now he's out of the army, and lives in Clovis NM. He works for CM2H Hill (or CH2m Hill) at Barrow on the north slope of Alaska. 21 days on and 21 days off. He works on anything with a motor. even though he's never been good in school, he's the smartest mechanically inclined person I know. And a damn good big brother.

Thanks for leting me bother ya's with this

Sam

here's somepics of what we have done now. (my nephew Justin has helped me ALOT). We added some on to the front of the frame for spring mounts. I finished one of the spring assemblies, and we put all the tubing end pieces in to plug the end holes. cleaned up and painted the front axle. the bike in the picture is another project I was working on. It's a 1976 Honda CB750 Four. It still needs some wiring and it needs the carb cleaned and a couple case bolts. chopped up the frame and made a new oil tank, added sportster tank and harley fender. Justin got me the fat bars for Christmas, and I put on forward controls.
I also have a sailboat to finnish, and a Large format (8x10) field camera to finnish building.
Sam

Takes a lot of huevos to start a project without a plan, I just gotta say......RIGHT ON!!

Sam my first bike was a 72 Honda 750. Excellent bike. That thing took me cross country. Love that bike. Your brother seems like a great guy who has some natural talent. Looking foward to reading this thread. Steve.

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Originally Posted by stovens

Sam my first bike was a 72 Honda 750. Excellent bike. That thing took me cross country. Love that bike. Your brother seems like a great guy who has some natural talent. Looking foward to reading this thread. Steve.

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I got it in stock condition from a guy for $50 a couple years ago. I seen a lot of sites on the internet about chopping the cb750 four SOHC bikes, and wanted to do something with it. this is what it turned out like. here in Mich., you cant have the top of the grip of the handle bars more than 15 inches above the highest point of the seat, so ape hangers are illegal, but I like the lower ones without much rise better anyways. tried to wire it like a santee basically. need to hook up the headlight, and a tail light still. have to adjust the clutch too. the headlights from a suzuki. the original speedometer fit in the top perfectly. I seen somewhere that the 69 cb750-4/sohc was considered #3 bike of all time, and only 3 because it was "too boring to ride" because it ran "too smooth" and had very few problems. Thought about building a hard tail some day maybe.

Sam

... and the white-wall (the stripe) is fake....don't tell anyone!!! all the real white walls I could find said "harley" on the side, and Avon tires cost way too much.

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Originally Posted by bluefishfoot

I got it in stock condition from a guy for $50 a couple years ago. I seen a lot of sites on the internet about chopping the cb750 four SOHC bikes, and wanted to do something with it. this is what it turned out like. here in Mich., you cant have the top of the grip of the handle bars more than 15 inches above the highest point of the seat, so ape hangers are illegal, but I like the lower ones without much rise better anyways. tried to wire it like a santee basically. need to hook up the headlight, and a tail light still. have to adjust the clutch too. the headlights from a suzuki. the original speedometer fit in the top perfectly. I seen somewhere that the 69 cb750-4/sohc was considered #3 bike of all time, and only 3 because it was "too boring to ride" because it ran "too smooth" and had very few problems. Thought about building a hard tail some day maybe.

Sam

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I still think it was the most dependable, easiest to maintain bike I've ever owned. If I could find a mint used one I'd buy it in a second!. Those quad carbs, and straight 4 blocks produced some kickbutt accelleration, and it handled better than my current Harley! Thanks for the trip down memory lane!

Big huevos might be an understatement, but am in your court too. I plane to follow this one up. Good (parts) hunting!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stovens

I still think it was the most dependable, easiest to maintain bike I've ever owned. If I could find a mint used one I'd buy it in a second!. Those quad carbs, and straight 4 blocks produced some kickbutt accelleration, and it handled better than my current Harley! Thanks for the trip down memory lane!

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here's a couple videos that might interest you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-FstCKzbzQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeMgEuf30G4&NR=1

Sam

Great videos Sam. Thanks.

been looking around for a 9-inch rear end disk break conversion kit. all of them seem to be around $375. I found out that if you get them, they only work with up to 6 1/4 inch axle flange, and the flange will have to be cut/ground from 7 inches for them to fit. that means 3/8 cut all around the flange and it will only leave about 1/8 inch of material outside the bolt pattern.
I checked on some Dana 44 rotors from a '78 F150 4WD and they fit around the center axle, the bolt pattern is the same, 5-5 1/2, and they can hold an axle flange up to 6 5/8 inches. That means the flange only has to be cut/ground 3/16 inch, all around, leaving 5/16 inch of material outside the bolt pattern. They are $40 each for the rotors, and that's for Duralast with thicker disk so it can be resurfaced if needed. I can make a bracket like the ones in the kits that bolt on (not welded) out of 3/16 stock, and I will need to find some calipers, maybe used with new pads. I think I can do the whole thing for around $200 or less, and with the less grinding/cutting on the axle flange, it may be safer in reguard to the strength of the axle flange. We'll find out on my next pay check (next weekend)!

I still haven't found anything for disk break kits for the front axle.
I'm working on that other front spring assembly today.

Sam

I just bought brackets from ebay they use Lincoln rotors and cad rear calipers with e-brake built in went to pick a part with a micrometer got almost new rotors 20.00 each calipers 20.00 each and ebay brackets 80.00 turn rotors 10.00 new pads 15.00 =175.00they work great oh I bought caliper rebuild kits for 7.00 each but there still in garage somewhere.....ted

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Originally Posted by ted dehaan

I just bought brackets from ebay they use Lincoln rotors and cad rear calipers with e-brake built in went to pick a part with a micrometer got almost new rotors 20.00 each calipers 20.00 each and ebay brackets 80.00 turn rotors 10.00 new pads 15.00 =175.00they work great oh I bought caliper rebuild kits for 7.00 each but there still in garage somewhere.....ted

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did the lincoln rotors fit over the axle flange without grinding the diameter down? I know that my flanges are 7 inch diameter. I here dodge rotors from I think it's 85 to 2002 will fit over the flange, but not over the center axle part, so it wont sit flush with the flange. so the rotors have to be ground in the center to fit. It would be nice to find a set of rotors that fit without grinding anything.

Sam

this is what I did today. I finished the other spring mount, and welded the top plates onto the frame where they need to sit. I must have measured wrong, because when I put the axle on, the springs angle toward the center. I think that I can remake the lower plates that attach to the axle, and adjust the bolt holes, so the bottom mounts will go toward the outside about an inch each way. That should straiten them out. I wasn't sure if the springs would be enough. They are rated at 1500 lbs as a pair. as of now, with the full weight of the motor and trans, the front of the frame sits about 2 inches off the floor. I'm 300 lbs and if I stand on the front, it only goes down an additional 1/2 inch. They might be okay. if not, I'll have to change them, and maybe try to find ones with the same diameter and rated higher. I may take out the top adjustable part, and just put in a piece of 2x3 tubing there instead...and just adjust at the bottom if necessary.



Sam

I am using a pass. car 9 in so they fit like the factory built it that way you may consider changing to pass. axles .....ted

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Originally Posted by ted dehaan

I am using a pass. car 9 in so they fit like the factory built it that way you may consider changing to pass. axles .....ted

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Thanks Ted
I think I'll go to the parts store and measure a set of the lincoln ones, and see if they would fit my axles better than the 78 F150 4WD. I know mine came from a 71 ford truck. We don't have any places like the Pick-a-Part around here that I know of, all we have is the scrap yards, and they will sell you the whole rear end, but not the axles. They say that it costs too much in labor to tear them apart. I don't know what aftermarket axles would cost, but I think I might be better off to get the closest ones I can find and make them work with the axles I have for now.
Sam

I'm picturing a wooden tub body shaped by a wooden skeleton like the old wooden skiboats of the past were formed. Luan (mahogany) verneers can be laminated and screwed and bonded to the skeleton using clear West-Systems epoxies for a result way cooler than fiberglass layup.
For inspiration, here's a link to the works of second-generation wood skiboat builder John Miller.... enjoy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AzDon

I'm picturing a wooden tub body shaped by a wooden skeleton like the old wooden skiboats of the past were formed. Luan (mahogany) verneers can be laminated and screwed and bonded to the skeleton using clear West-Systems epoxies for a result way cooler than fiberglass layup.
For inspiration, here's a link to the works of second-generation wood skiboat builder John Miller.... enjoy!

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couldn't find a link in your post, but found a site for John MIller Boats. I like them, but he definitely has better boat building skills than me.

I tore the 9 inch rear end apart today. The tag was missing so I wasn't sure what gears were in it. I drained it out and it had some water in, but it looks like it should be okay. there's some gunk inside that I'll clean out but the gears and everything look okay. So I officially have a Ford 9-inch with large bearings, standard case, heavy axles with 28 spline, 5 on 5 1/2 pattern, with 12-39 gears which makes it a 3.25 ratio. From what I understand, same rear end as in the 67-69 Fairlanes, but with larger bolt pattern. I'm told that with the 360FE, the 3-speed automatic, and the 3.25 rear end, I should get about 65-70 mph at 1800 rpm if I stay with the normal size tires, and not low profile or something.

engine $100
trans $100
rear end $ 60
springs (2 sets) $ 52
steel for frame $200
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total $512
I think i did pretty good so far. If I can do the front and rear disk breaks for less than $300, I'll be happy...which I think I can.
I have more pictures soon.

Sam

"The ideal personal car for any man or woman. With top down it is the raciest of roadsters; with top up the sportiest of closed cars." (from the 1933 brochure for the Deusenberg model J)

I definitely want one of these. I read that the stock wheel base for the Deusenberg was 142.5 inches. I measured the frame I have, and it's perfect for that. I would actually have to move the rear end ahead about 2 inches from where I planned to have it, but I won't have to change the frame any.

I'm sure I could do a regular model J, without a lot of curves, but I think i would LOVE to do one like the "morman meteor speedster". The original had a 1750 cubic inch V12 and held the 24 hour speed record averaging 153.823 mph. The original sold for $4,455,000 at auction in 2004. The pictures are of the speedster.

Sam

I like the single headlight, and the passenger side hand warmer!:)

I think the hand warmer would warm elsewhere if you tryed to step over it to enter or leave the car.:LOL:
here's a couple pictures of the engine. I know when they did some of the "unlimited class" records, they had an airplane engine in it. The earlier records were done with the V12. These apparently show a strait 8 that it has now.

I'm thinkin that I've seen pics of that car with people or objects of known size and that thing is huge like one of the "Blastolean" cars..... That body would be a huge undertaking with all those curvy panels.