Bought an old race car today.

I don't know if I previously mentioned this, but for the past two months I have been attempting to buy an old 79 Camaro drag car. My first thoughts were to clean it up, make some improvements, and go racing on the cheap. Finally this week I was able to make a deal and today I had it towed to my shop.

I've now realized that the 6 years of outdoor storage have taken a big toll on the body so I am going to scrap that. What I really wanted was the engine, transmission, and rear axle because I now think I will transplant them into my 46 Tudor and make a daily driver out of it.

The previous owner spent A LOT of money on the engine and it looks like it only ran briefly before being parked. I am learning that every decal on the car really represents a part he used. Here is what I know I have so far:

70-76 350 sbc, maybe 2 or 4 bolt mains (I hope and bet 4 bolt)

World Products cast iron Sportsman II heads with (I think) Harlan Sharp roller rockers.

Edelbrock RPM intake with a Holley DP 650 carb.

MSD distributor, MSD 6AL box, and coil

A solid lifter cam of unknown make and model (I haven't torn it down that far yet)

A fluidampr harmonic balancer

A Weiand electric water pump

A deep and flat racing oil pan.

Headers

Edelbrock Elite valve covers

Forged flat top pistons (I'll know more when I tear the rest down)

It also has a 350 turbo that looks fresh with a smallish blue torque converter

The decals on the car indicate there is an Auburn limited slip rear and Richmond gears. Don't have a clue what ones though yet.


The oil in the engine is like new and the tranny fluid is purple and also like new. They had pure antifreeze in the cooling system and must have sprayed the internals with rust preventative because the cylinder walls and all are shiny clean.

I'll take it to my machinist and have the block and heads done over and have the crank checked too. I forgot to measure the bore and stroke tonight but it looks like a 30 over 350 to me from glancing at it. I'll probably save the racing stuff for another engine and tame this one down for the 46. Here are some pictures of it all.

Don

Looks like you got some good stuff . Is all that rust and corrosion normal
for a car stored outside by the ocean ?

Congrats on the new ride, from the pics the body does not look to bad. But from living in Cape Coral for 3 years I know that its not just the salt air but the sun also beats the crap outta vechicles too.

The body looked pretty good to me when I first saw it but upon closer examination it really is shot. I had to set off 6 insect foggers and a whole can of Raid ant killer to get the big carpenter ants out of it......must have been a million of them in there. Last night standing inside the engine room working I was a little worried there might be more critters still in there, like a SNAKE! :eek: I hate snakes.

The three tarps they put over the engine both saved it and hurt it. They kept the rain from getting on it but the humidity was able to get up under there from the dirt underneath. Mostly though it isn't as bad as the pictures show, just that normal corrosion that happens to aluminum.....it will blast off. The internals were my concern and they are very clean and show no rusting. I think the PO fogged the engine because the cylinder walls are shiny yet. He also was smart enough to put what looks like pure antifreeze in the cooling system so it is also rust free. The tranny fluid is full and is a clean purple color (Royal Purple maybe?)

But I am going to have everything hot tanked and remachined, just to be safe. Can't wait until I get the pan off and see what other goodies are lurking in there.

Don

You have the Edelbrock Performer RPM air gap manifold, which is very good! Look like Harland Sharp rockers to me also. They should be nice pieces for a street engine. Nice find. The '46 looks like it will be a real nice driver. And I tried the 650 double pumper on the street for a while. They make for a very responsive engine, but whew they love that gas! Enjoy the new project Don.

I had a 74 Camaro that I tried to drag race. The 350 was the best thing about that car. So many options and so many was to go with it. Good idea to dump the car and keep the drive train. JMHO

Rick

Deuce, yep this one evidently liked gas too as it was running way rich. Maybe the combo of a high volume mechanical pump being fed by a second electric one in the back.

Rick, I even looked to see what body parts I could salvage to sell and about the only part worth keeping is the hood and even it has a hole cut in it for a scoop or something. Funny thing is, the floors are perfect. Maybe the 3 large garbage bags of trash I cleaned out of it and all the ants protected it.:D

Don

WOW Don ...... you didn't have enough projects??? Good luck.

I just sold my RaysonCraft boat cause I need to only deal with one project at a time.

Paul

I agree Paul, you are probably really anxious to get more done on your 46. I read a long time ago a golden rule of rod building. "Don't get sidetracked by any other car projects until you get one done." For some reason I seem to break that rule a lot. :o

Tonight I got the engine and transmission pulled out of the Camaro. Dan was worried I was doing it by myself so he came to the shop and gave me a hand.

I think I am going to leave the rear axle assembly in the Camaro so the junkman has an easier time loading it onto his rollback. The reason I am going to let it go is because I think there is a spool inside instead of a posi unit. When we were pushing the car backwards tonight into it's parking spot the inside wheel was scrubbing on the pavement, like a spool would do. Also, when I dropped the driveshaft and the rear wheels were off the ground there seems to be a lot of play in the rear end. You can turn the yoke quite a bit and there is a distinctive clunk in each direction. Does that seem normal for a spool setup? I may still pull off the rear cover to see what I can see in there.

I also got the timing cover off tonight and the timing chain is a double roller and very tight, like it should be. So I'll reuse that too. I think that is a cam button on the end of the timing gear. The cam will come out tomorrow or Saturday and then I'll tear down the rest of the engine to see what rods, etc are in there. I do know it isn't a stroker (:() The stroke measures just about 3.5 inches.

Don

I dig it Don ...... "roller" cam botton no less!!

Can't give you info on the spool ...... have ALWAYS used a posi set up.

Paul

Me too Paul. I've never had a spool nor a cam button, so they are Greek to me. The way the tires were scuffing when we were pushing the car on a turn looks like the rear is locked. I don't think any posi would do that, or maybe it would.

When you look into the rear cover area of a 10 bolt Chevy, what does a spool look like compared to a posi unit?

Don

Don - no external diff. but what your describing may be a locker ..... one slide ratcheting as the other is moving ......

A full spool replaces the ring-gear carrier. It has no provision for spider gears and the axles are splined directly into it. I don't have a pic but a summit cat. might help.

Perhaps its a mini-spool. This consists of a set of four blocks. Two have a splined hole for the axles; the other two fit in slots in the first box to lock the two axles together.


http://image.automotive.com/f/techar...spool_10_z.jpg

Paul

That makes sense. The excessive play is what has me concerned. Even when Dan was turning the one wheel to spin the driveshaft so I could get to all four bolts, it seemed to be hanging up some. Could be rust and dirt in the brake drums though as the car sat on flat tires for years. But the excess play is what I don't understand.

I guess when I look inside tomorrow night I'll have a better idea of whats what.

Don

Update: Uh, I will definitely be taking a looksee in there. I just went to Auburn Gears website and these things are expensive! I'd hate to send good money to the scrap yard.

Oh you bet ....... an Auburn is not a CHEAP auto part!!!

X your fingers ..... you might have a score ....... or not.......

Paul

Congrats Don. Lots of good stuff there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

The tranny fluid is full and is a clean purple color (Royal Purple maybe?)


Don

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it could very well be B&M trick shift that stuff is purple and the stall you said was blue thats a B&M has well

Paul, I didn't realize those rear parts were that much money. I'm going to take a real close look now.:D

Steve, thanks. This was one of those cases of being in the right place at the right time I guess.

Pat, thanks. That is good info. I bet you are right. The transmission is black and has a deep pan on it with a drain plug, so it is somebodies built tranny. I don't think they ever got as far as actually driving the car because it looks like a lot of things are unfinished yet........like no shifter was installed. I have the feeling they put break in time on the engine and that was it. There are a couple of B&M decals on the car so that makes sense. Plus, the fluids are all extremely clean.

Pat, do you have a feeling about the slop in the rear clearances?

Don

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Paul, I didn't realize those rear parts were that much money. I'm going to take a real close look now.:D

Steve, thanks. This was one of those cases of being in the right place at the right time I guess.

Pat, thanks. That is good info. I bet you are right. The transmission is black and has a deep pan on it with a drain plug, so it is somebodies built tranny. I don't think they ever got as far as actually driving the car because it looks like a lot of things are unfinished yet........like no shifter was installed. I have the feeling they put break in time on the engine and that was it. There are a couple of B&M decals on the car so that makes sense. Plus, the fluids are all extremely clean.

Pat, do you have a feeling about the slop in the rear clearances?

Don

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did gloss over that if both wheels turn its a mini spool or the real deal there will be no slop .but should need C lip eliminators it will if it,s a real spool. if you get about 3/4 of a trun then lock hard then someone may have filled the teeth with weld and left some teeth to turn some what some guys did this but its hard on the parts. if the other wheel will make a turn but bangs or hopes a bit but will make a full turn then the limited slip could be dry from setting or set up realy tigth had a 9 like that many years ago 28 years ago still have it under my chevy never rebuilt after some miles the hopping stop.it could be a powertrax carrier ??. pull the cover will tell you more if the rear end is nice shape i hang on to if there not bad and if under some of older cars and turcks . i would take every thing off it and keep it other then the shell if you have room .but you knew that:D

Thanks Pat for that info. I'll stick a camera up in there tonight after I pull the back cover off and post them. Maybe you can see something in there that will help me make a decision.

I appreciate the input Pat.


Don

Ok, I know a lot more about my new purchase than I did yesterday. I left work early today (was running into overtime:() and tore down the engine and removed the transmission.

The transmission is a B&M. I found part of their decal on the top of the transmission case....the B and part of the M. The converter had a part number of 20413 on it and is also B&M. They call it a Holeshot 3000. It goes for about $ 475.00.:D The flexplate is a TCI with and SFI approved sticker on it.

Got the pan off. It IS a 4 bolt main block. (insert big smile here) The pistons and rods are all stamped with the number of the cylinder they go into and I can see where material was removed from the underside of the pistons on some and also on the connecting rods. So evidently it was balanced.

The pistons are forged but nothing special. The are Sealed Power 2244P .020 over. I researched that number (it is an old number) and it works out to be just about 9:78 to 1 with my 62 cc heads. The connecting rods have no real number on them except for GMA and 687. I couldn't find that number on the internet.

The cam has a number stamped on the back but I couldn't find it anywhere either. It is SE1090P. But it is going into the trash as are the lifters because I found the 3rd lobe from the back is wiped. Every other one is perfect except for that one. Maybe a bad break in proceedure or they set that one too tight? Any thoughts?

The engine also has screw in plugs instead of tap in ones, and the inside is really clean. However, it will go to my machinist for a hot tank and complete check over. The crank spins very freely in the bearings, and the bearings all showed some minor scoring, probably from the cam shavings getting circulated. The journals are all nice on the crank and it is marked 010 and 010, so the rods and mains are 10 under.

The crank is not remarkable either, the part number is 3932442 which comes up as a cast crank, medium journal with a 3.48 stroke. Being that this will become a street motor it will be more than I need.

Finally, the oil pan has no markings but is a deep flat sump model and the oil pump sits way down in it with a square pickup........some brand of racing setup obviously. It also has a heavy duty oil pump driveshaft.

So, that is what I have and overall I am really happy with my purchase. I got a lot of nice, expensive parts and a good basis to get my 46 running. Thanks for looking and for all the advice and tips.

Oh, tomorrow in the daylight I plan on looking inside the rear end. I have the junk man lined up for Monday to come and take it away so I have to get moving.
Don

Way to go Don! Must feel good to see quality stuff inside.:3dSMILE:

Yeah Steve, I got to sit in the shop today and fondle all of it. :D I also found out the carb isn't a 650 double pumper, it is a 750 double pumper. I read the part number wrong. Too much for the street but probably ok on the track. I also don't think the guys who built the engine were the same guys who built the car. The engine is done so well and the car is really thrown together. I would guess they bought a built engine and did the rest. Probably why they toasted the cam on break in too.

I feel like a kid at Xmas time. :D

Don

I have been following this, what a score!! I was waiting to hear what was in the rear end before I posted but we haven't heard anything yet :3dSMILE:
Ken

Rust was in there. :( I pulled the back cover off today Ken and there wasn't a drop of gear lube in there, bone dry. So rust had ruined the gears and also the mini spool. Nothing worth anything so I kept the Mr Gasket rear cover and the rest goes with the car when the junk guy comes Monday.

I did find out what the clunking was when you turn the yoke. Not the gear lash but the axles being sloppy inside the spool. Not sure what was up with that, but since I didn't want it anyway it didn't matter. Oh, the gear ratio was only a 3:42 also.

Thanks for asking though, I forgot to post about that.

Don

Great fine. It's all about the hunt.

You're right. I love it when someone says in passing "I know of an old car that is stored away and they might want to get rid of it." :eek::D THE HUNT IS ON!:D Chances are it is something like an old Citation, but sometimes, just sometimes it turns out to be a real jem.

The day I found the Camaro I actually walked into the office of the storage place and asked if any of the old boats stored there were for sale. She said "No, none of the boats are for sale...............but that old race car back there will be going up for sale when we get the lien completed." :eek:

Yep, that is what makes this stuff fun.

Don

Thanks Don, I was just curious. Not to beat this to death but did the axles look stock and was their a C clip eliminator kit on it? With a mini spool I don't remember if you had to do that but if it does and the axles are after market it would be worth saving for future projects. Just a thought. :D
Don't you have a 12 bolt in your roadster?
Ken

No Ken, I have a 10 bolt S10 rear in my 23 and the 27 has a 9 incher. I really didn't know what I was looking at when I peered inside the housing. I knew it wasn't a spool and I knew it wasn't a limited slip. It was obviously a mini spool because I did some on line searching before I got in there and saw pictures.

As for the C clip eliminators, I don't honestly know. My knowledge on these rear end setups is very limited. Plus, with all the rust it was hard to see much of anything. They evidently put the rear together and never added one drop of gear lube. So it sat pretty close to the ground for 6 years and the moisture got at it all. Even the inside of the housing was rusty, top to bottom. If it had been some deep gears I might have tried to salvage some of it and clean it up, but 3:42's weren't worth going all the work to pull out.

That slop in between the axles and the spool was odd though. Maybe they set these up loose for racing?

Getting ready to go to the shop now. We got half of Dans floor permanently installed last night and today we are doing the second half. That will put him very close to being able to start priming the undersides and rest of it. We used 3M body panel adhesive and cleco'd it down to set up. Now he is going to rivet everywhere there is a cleco. This picture is of the panel adhesive spread out ready for the floor to be laid down. That gray colored stuff on the inside of the cowl bottom is cold galvanizing. He wanted that to resist rusting and knew once the floor was down he could never get back inside there to shoot epoxy primer on it.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x...wnfloor002.jpg

Don

there no way to set a spool loose if more them 3/4 of a turn they welded some of the the spider gears teeth up if a mini spool you would need clip elminators if that loose the spline on the axles were worn out from hard use . but alot of time the center pin that the spinder are held in the carrier get beat out all load will run thru the pin that holds the mini spool in all power run thru it thats why mini spools are not that good

That makes sense Pat. The pinion and ring gear had no slop between them but I could see the spool move quite a bit before it moved the axle.

The old Camaro goes to the scrap yard tomorrow. :D Don helped me clean out the shop of every old transmission, engine block and a ton of the old manifolds and risers he replaced on his boat. We put so much steel into the Camaro the back end is dragging. That should make it worthwhile for the junk guy to haul it away.

Tonight Dan and I permanently installed the passenger side floor in his RPU, so there is no turning back now. That 3M body panel stuff really sets up. The rivets are going to be incidental. The side we did yesterday was cured today and it really made a strong installation.

Here is a picture of the drivers side all cured and ready for rivets. The passenger side hadn't been installed yet in this picture.

Don

look s nice don . used the 3m stuff at the body shop but i like the windshild self primer urethane a bit better i put door skins on with it and just tack welded the corners and a few and the mild part of skin .i would never what to take one of them old door skins off that i used windshield urethane on... it is alot like 3m 5200 but black nasty stuff and it would flex were the 3 m panle bond would not

Don it looks great! Also thanks for the mention of the 3m body panel adhesive. I need to put a small patch in the windshield channel that is too hard to hold in place underneath while being welded above. Using adhesive a day ahead of time, then tack welding like Pat said may be the easy, and right way to go!

Pat that sounds like a good product to use too. The panel adhesive we used does dry pretty stiff from what we could see, but he has so many crossmembers in the floor there should be very little flex, if any. I'll have to remember the windshield stuff though.

Steve, the only thing about it for a small job is the cost. The gun is about $80 and each tube setup is about $ 50.......it took 3 tubes to do his floor. Pat mentioned 3M 5200 and it is a one part that really caulks and makes stuff adhere. It comes in white or black and once it sets up it is there for life. It is also cheaper, about $ 10 or so a tube and it works in a standard caulking gun. Only drawback is that it takes days to cure versus 4 hours with the two part panel adhesive.

Here is a picture of the adhesive we used and the applicator.

Don

Oh, the Camaro went to great crusher in the sky today. :D I looked it over to see if anything could be salvaged but it was all so far gone everything was shot. Must have been a northern car because of the rust and also it was a non air conditioned car originally.

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Originally Posted by stovens

Don it looks great! Also thanks for the mention of the 3m body panel adhesive. I need to put a small patch in the windshield channel that is too hard to hold in place underneath while being welded above. Using adhesive a day ahead of time, then tack welding like Pat said may be the easy, and right way to go!

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well you want to weld every thing in if you can . i have not see any thing bonded that did not leave a shadow line in the paint in the hot sun its hard to get past this with any air cure epoxys and the steel patch will move at a diffrent rate than the glue . the windshield urethane is very strong and it needs to as the windows in car s from back in the 80s and up till now is stuctural and can not fall out in a crash . it works good for bonding as it can take vibration and dampen body panels but would not make a good glue for patching a part that will be filled with body filler and painted you could look at the 14366 metal welder by devcon and is a methacrylate adhesive .or Lord Hi adhesive 406/19 you can get this in small tubes it will go a long way .you will need a gun thats about $30 you will need plunger and mix tips Mcmaster carr has this stuff

Thanks Pat and Don. We used to use 5200 on our boats in the Keys...good stuff. Pat I just need something to hold it up flush against the bottom of the metal channel so I can mig weld the patch from the top and on the side edges underneith. I think it will work long enough to spot weld the patch, after that I'll weld the whole area. It's just one of those tight impossible to get to spots for any magnets to hold it in there. Thanks both of you guys!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stovens

Thanks Pat and Don. We used to use 5200 on our boats in the Keys...good stuff. Pat I just need something to hold it up flush against the bottom of the metal channel so I can mig weld the patch from the top and on the side edges underneith. I think it will work long enough to spot weld the patch, after that I'll weld the whole area. It's just one of those tight impossible to get to spots for any magnets to hold it in there. Thanks both of you guys!

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well used self taping screws any time i did not want to use clamps or did not have the room so you could check body lines drill for a plug weld then drill a 1/8 hole in pinch well or over lap run screw s in to hold it take one out at a time plug weld up screw holes .i hang hole front ends on this way upper rails .inner wells upper and lower cross bars and body tin rockers inners outers back panels 1/4 panles .box side. you name it i have screwed it:D what,s nice about useing screws is we use a 5/16 plug weld and hit the center of backer with a 1/8 hole and used a self tappers you could back if off and move it front back up and down get it all tune in and burn it on:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

well used self taping screws any time i did not want to use clamps or did not have the room so you could check body lines drill for a plug weld then drill a 1/8 hole in pinch well or over lap run screw s in to hold it take one out at a time plug weld up screw holes .i hang hole front ends on this way upper rails .inner wells upper and lower cross bars and body tin rockers inners outers back panels 1/4 panles .box side. you name it i have screwed it:D what,s nice about useing screws is we use a 5/16 plug weld and hit the center of backer with a 1/8 hole and used a self tappers you could back if off and move it front back up and down get it all tune in and burn it on:D

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Pat I'll crawl under the dash and see if the cordless drill fits up in there. That's a great idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stovens

Pat I'll crawl under the dash and see if the cordless drill fits up in there. That's a great idea.

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snap a photo of the spot and i will tell you how i would go it fixing it or some other may give you some input if you need to pull it up from under the dash tack some gas welding rod on the patch and use the welding rod to pull it up and tack it .or pull it up and grab the welding rod with a vice grips to the upper window pinch well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

snap a photo of the spot and i will tell you how i would go it fixing it or some other may give you some input if you need to pull it up from under the dash tack some gas welding rod on the patch and use the welding rod to pull it up and tack it .or pull it up and grab the welding rod with a vice grips to the upper window pinch well

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Sounds good I will do with a major apology to Don for this sidetrack from your cool purchase.

You didn't side track anything Steve. You know my threads tend to wander a bit on their own anyway. :D Actually, I enjoy them more when people just come on and shoot the breeze about whatever., and I learn a lot about stuff too.:)

Don