Enough is Enough ...........

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Originally Posted by lamin8r

Hooo,boy,:D Dave, That happens all too regularly,been in that situation,and it has happened to me this week,a job that should have taken three days,is being finished on the fifth,today,Saturday..Meanwhile,I have a couple of development jobs I am trying to finish,and a few more small repair jobs to do,as well as getting stock units laid up..I have a one man business,tried the employment thing,but with all the hassles,sometimes its easier to do it all myself,and do more hours,hence working some Saturdays..Yeah,its lunch time here,so dont make me feel guilty..:LOL:Going back out soon..okay??:D

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Some Saturdays????:LOL::LOL:Couldn't tell you the last time I took a full Saturday off...and not a whole lot of Sundays off, either.... Then Wednesday night I took a really nasty fall on the ice trying to get into a pickup...My whole body is one big bruise, hit the truck with the left side of my body and the ground with the right side....couldn't walk very well yesterday, and just did paperwork today...and a car that has to be blocked, painted, and delivered by noon Monday..... Just another wonderful week in a small shop.....

Just as a sidenote....For every story about a shop with poor scheduling or poor quality work, betcha I could tell two stories about customers and some of there "expectations"!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Some Saturdays????:LOL::LOL:Couldn't tell you the last time I took a full Saturday off...and not a whole lot of Sundays off, either.... Then Wednesday night I took a really nasty fall on the ice trying to get into a pickup...My whole body is one big bruise, hit the truck with the left side of my body and the ground with the right side....couldn't walk very well yesterday, and just did paperwork today...and a car that has to be blocked, painted, and delivered by noon Monday..... Just another wonderful week in a small shop.....

Just as a sidenote....For every story about a shop with poor scheduling or poor quality work, betcha I could tell two stories about customers and some of there "expectations"!!!!!

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I wish we could have extra days to finish a job. My two brothers and I have run small 2-3 person shops since the 70's and if we were late, you looked else where for work, they usually don't care what you problem was. they said they wanted next Tuesday, they got it next Tuesday. and after that was done, you called around and bid on more work, hopefully for as soon as you finished the other job.
Thats the way the real world works, not when you get around to it!

I understand that body work is a little different as to what is hidden underneath, but don't tell me it'll be done in two weeks, and I show up in 3 and it has not been started, cause it'll be gone, and you'll get no good referrals from me, you could have picked up the phone and say it's going to be little late, is that ok. and I would have said sure, thank you for calling!

I have worked many times hurt, really hurt, but it didn't matter to the customer, his work does.

As far as "expectations" the only one that matters is the one I gave them before I started the work. and that is that it will be done by next Tuesday, like I said.
You need money to keep the doors open, then get my work done and you'll have money, don't and you won't!

Pat

and in a perfect world, that's how it goes all the time....

Hey guys ......... don't misunderstand me here ............. I'm very disappointed that the car is no further along after nearly four years ........ but I'm not condemning the shop .......... they're a good bunch of kids and they do marvelous work ............ and I tried to be as patient as I could ......... I understand that "shit happens" and schedules have to be adjusted ......... but at some point in time you just can't continue down the same path ............. as I said, they do great work with what they know how to do ........... but this project turned out to be so different ........... I honestly believe they simply bit off way more than they could chew

The new shop, while small also, has the experience and capabilities to do in-house fabrication .......... it is a true rod & custom shop, not a body shop like the other

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Originally Posted by Crazyrat

Sorry about naming it wrong, yes, Rod Crafters is the one I was thinking of.:rolleyes:

My brother had a car in there for about a year and just got it back. Now I have to retrack my statement about them doing good work after seeing what his looked like. I wasnt impressed at all with the quality of the work they did on his. Trunk lines didnt line up nor did one of the doors. He had to redo one of the tunnel bolts because it was put in crooked.:HMMM:

For what he paid I would have though the car would have been in primer to say the least but it wasnt, still bare metal.:eek

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I have not been all that impressed with Rod Crafters either ........... but my problem has been more with the attitude rather than the quality of the work ........ every time I have talked to Larry about doing anything on my car, his attitude has been pretty much "I'm not sure I can waste my time with you" ............. I guess my cash isn't the proper color of green for him.
:rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Old Coyote

Hey guys ......... don't misunderstand me here ............. I'm very disappointed that the car is no further along after nearly four years ........ but I'm not condemning the shop .......... they're a good bunch of kids and they do marvelous work ............ and I tried to be as patient as I could ......... I understand that "shit happens" and schedules have to be adjusted ......... but at some point in time you just can't continue down the same path ............. as I said, they do great work with what they know how to do ........... but this project turned out to be so different ........... I honestly believe they simply bit off way more than they could chew

The new shop, while small also, has the experience and capabilities to do in-house fabrication .......... it is a true rod & custom shop, not a body shop like the other

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no misunderstanding, your's was an obvious case of not being able to do the job correctly, and not wanting to admit it...

My only point was that no shop is perfect, at least none I've ever been involved with or even visited.... I just didn't want to see your misfortune turn into a condemnation of all the hardworking individuals with small shops who do their absolute best when building a car or doing body work on an old Hot Rod.

IMO, Coyote you should get the "Ouststanding Patience of the Decade Award" with all the grief you've been through on your car. I merely wanted to show the other side a bit. Can't tell you how many of the reverse I've been in with the "I've got all the money to do it" crowd, then after 6 months to a year of building the car for a customer, investing thousands of my own dollars and hundreds of hours and have the customer never even come by again cuz he's out of money and instantly the shop becomes the bad guy cuz they overcharge, too slow, or the usual bunch of bs that the wanna-be's come up with.... Right now, in storage that I pay for every month, I have 6 different half done projects that I've accumulated over the years that I will never be able to get my money out of---and of course, all these owners tell anyone who will listen that I'm the bad guy.... I could take a couple years off just with what I have right now in accounts recievable---the majority of which are 5 or more years old... I finally learned to quit feeling sorry for people and spending my money on their car....

I know all the grief you've been through on yours, Coyote!!!! I'd give anything to have a half dozen customers as understanding as you are, I'd close my doors to the general public!!!! I'm fortunate enough now to have enough repeat customers that I don't have to take on any new ones unless I'm 100% certain they KNOW what the cost is going to be, realize the price goes up everytime they change their mind, and realize that a quality product takes time!!!!!! -----and for being that way, I'm probably one of the biggest ***holes around, just ask anybody!!!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:

Dave -
I take my Harley to a one man shop/friend who is an excellent mechanic. He is constantly struggling with individuals who need it now, but can't pay later. I always tell him what's going on with my bike, get a rough cost estimate, and then wait until I have the cash, before I even bring it in and schedule work. To me his skill and integrity is something I value and respect. Every time I drop by, he's got about ten bikes in the shop. Some completely done, some waiting payment, and a few waiting on parts. We get along great because I pay cash, and am straight forward with what I need done. I never impose time limits, because after doing construction for a few years, I realize $h!# happens that no one can foresee. I just wish people had Coyotes patience and my friend' or your's dependability. We'd all be happier!
It is funny just looking at my own measley build and realizing setting a time frame for completion is a difficult thing!
I feel for you both!

Communication is very important between customer and shop in any business. When we take a boat in the first question is how much and the second question is when will it be done.

Stuff happens and we find out most times there are additional problems that will cost more and sometimes it takes longer than we thought, due to parts needed, corrosion, etc. But I am on the phone immediately, letting the customer know what we have run into, what the new cost may be, and any delays that have happened. They are never happy to learn about the extra money or delays, but most times they thank me for keeping them in the loop. It is what I would want if I were in their shoes.

I think you were extremely patient in waiting 4 years before finally pulling the plug. They might be great bodymen but very lousy businessmen IMO. You did nothing wrong, you paid on time, accepted "some" degree of delays, and still speak highly of their work. But you do want to drive that car sometime in your lifetime, and you are the guy cutting the checks.:)

This is also a perfect example why most bodyshops are not great places to take a rod or custom for work. Doing these jobs right is very labor intensive and body shops are used to getting them in and out as fast as possible. When they realize how much time it takes to do the modifications or work we expect they shove our car into a corner and plan on working on it between other jobs. After a while the dust gets thicker and thicker as the car sits waiting.

Don

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

Stuff happens and we find out most times there are additional problems that will cost more and sometimes it takes longer than we thought, due to parts needed, corrosion, etc. But I am on the phone immediately, letting the customer know what we have run into, what the new cost may be, and any delays that have happened. They are never happy to learn about the extra money or delays, but most times they thank me for keeping them in the loop. It is what I would want if I were in their shoes.



Don

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There aren't any Silver Bullet soloutions in life/business, but what Pops has said there is about as close as it gets. Anyone contemplating running or improving their service business would do well to reread that several times, commit it to memory, and then live it! I used to take it to the next step as well..........put it in writing. In many trades they're known as "change orders". They work even better if the customer signs them when the change is decided on. That way, when the inevitable day comes that they are grumpy (to whatever degree), if you gently remind them that they were part of the decision making along the way that resulted in the time/cost shift most reasonable people will say something like "oh, I forgot about that!". And usually they honestly did. It's a pretty simple concept, harder to do if you're not very disciplined, but it makes business life, for both the customer and the shop, so much easier. And most often leads to more business either by repeats or referrals. Once I figured this stuff out I found I was getting referals from people who DIDN'T use my shop. I always prepped potential customers on our process, which almost nobody else did. With some regularity folks thought it "too complicated" or some variation on that thought. So they signed on with the shop that said something like "sure, bring it in, we'll get on it right away!". Then they lived the stories that have been told here. Not many, but a few, had the guts to come back and say "I should have listened to you in the beginning, that other shop................" (fill in tale of woe). As was stated, it's just communication to set expectations.................makes a big difference.

Very common occurance I am sad to say and w non restoration body shops in particular. The biggest reason I do not deal with shops and I mean NEVER other than to buy parts. If i need something done I take it to a feelance guy who is not busy and is greedy for CASH. It gets in and gets done B4 I hand over any cash other than materials and only then as he goes NEVER in a lump sum. but then again I do drivers and not show cars so "name" shops mean nothing to me.