would be better if it paid off in diamonds....:toocool:Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
oh, and like Nick said about your crack.....:eek::LOL::LOL:
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would be better if it paid off in diamonds....:toocool:Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
oh, and like Nick said about your crack.....:eek::LOL::LOL:
Maybe I cracked the Shroud of Meller on'a diamond shaped stage??? Whew!!
must be the heat! :LOL::LOL:
Boy I hope that's all it is
Isn't that from Shakespeare ? :whacked:**)Quote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
Wow Charlie, no kiddin'? 12 feet long? That should cool it!Quote:
Originally Posted by cffisher
Guess I missed a shift :LOL::LOL::LOL:
I kinda figured that reconnecting the tranny cooler lines to the radiator was gonna be the hardest thing for me (because of limited space, vision and old body) and I WAS CORRECT. It ate my lunch but it's connected and I'm gonna let the feller that's doing my exhaust and lowering block removal take a look at it and ?hopefully? make it better.
Here's a pic showing 3 things.
1.the part of the shroud that had to be removed because of fan interference
2.a slight crimp in the tubing (been there a while I imagine, cause I didn't do it)
3.and last but by no means least the end of a pull tie that is holding the closest line in place (Barro Bros. Curse prolly?)
All I know is if it holds water, cools and shifts enuff to get me to the mechanics next week, then this job is FINISHED.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...g?t=1374420548
#%$&@%$&#@%$&#@&%@$
Nee help, fellers !
I put half of the coolant back in the radiator and then cranked it - - - had problems almost immediately.
1. it started puking out the overflow tube almost immediately but finally stopped
2. when it finally started warming up, it did it FAST and was climbing into 200 when I shut it down
3. after shutting it down the top radiator hose was starting to get warm and the bottom was cold but I could still hold my hand on the top tank
4. I imagine that the thermostat has to open before it will allow me to put the rest of the coolant in -?right?
5. the fan is sucking air thru the radiator just fine or it seems to be
6. ALL I know to do is wait until it cools down and see if I can get the rest of the coolant in the system????????
Any suggestions? I'm at a total loss - - - mainly because it has NEVER warmed up this fast before and ?I thought? that everything I have done was to make it cool better. It could be my "pea brain" but I don't think so.
HELP????????????????????????????????????
I've had air in the line before that has caused weird problems with coolant, and heating. Seems strange the thermostat didn't open, do you know what temp the thermostat is set to open? Was the radiator full to the top when you started?
Are you sure the temp gauge is accurate or were you using a thermometer?
thanks for the reply, Sto, the rad was full to the top but there wasn't any in the engine block but after it got hot and I let it cool - - - I put the rest of the coolant in - - - - then I cranked it and it did the same dang thing - - - it will just ease up and then when it gets to 190 it goes in a hurry to 200 - - - this may be a Gomer question but "COULD it be a defective radiator cap causing this???"
I'm at a loss because I haven't done any thing (?that I know ifS?) to change it except install a new shroud and fan and move the tranny line to the bottom tank of the rad ?????????
Em,
I always drill a small, nominal 1/8" hole in the thermostat disk to let the air bleed out of the engine while filling the system. Without the hole it is too easy to get air trapped at the thermostat housing, and the thermostat won't open until the bi-metal spring is surrounded by coolant. Catch 22, and very frustrating. Pull your stat, drill a hole and then listen as you fill and you'll hear the air bubbling out through the hole. Works like a charm, and provides the added benefit of a very slight flow through the closed stat to get the warm water circulating faster.
Sorry bout the absence but I had to cook lunch - - - "house work is my full time job - - - screwing up Fairlane's is just partime". Sto, I just installed a 180 degree thermostat - - - wish I'd known about the 1/8" hole that Roger mentioned a couple of months ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by stovens
Randy, all ll I had to tell was the temp gauge under the dash.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyr
Thanks Roger, as I mentioned above, I just finished installing a new 180 thermostat and I guess that "hind sight is really 20/20 but I'll have to address the stat at a later time.Quote:
Originally Posted by rspears
TWO QUESTIONS: First one is, when the upper hose gets warm/hot doesn't that mean that the thermostat is open? Secondly, could it possibly be the radiator cap? The reason I ask is that's about the "only" improvement (using the work loosely) I haven't made to the cooling system, except for a new radiator.
One thing new that I've noticed is that it is puking out the overflow tube more than it has ever done before.
Thanks for your replies, gentlemen.
Em
Have you fixed that line from the pump to the manifold????????????
Most likely you have a bunch of air in the block/heads------and the air will expand more than liquid and cause that bubbling-----------
You can reverse fill it by removing the upper hose and pouring the coolant into engine until it reverse filla the radiator to the top
:):)not yet but it's on my list but just not at the top - - - I'm almost sure that the heater core leaks because it's not connected - - - another BB fix that I'll have to contend with at a later date but right now I'm just trying to reap the benefits of my hard work and it's not cooperating.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
If I keep cranking, warming, cooling and filling, will I eventually get the air bubbles out?
It sure sounds like you've got air trapped. Loosen the 5/8" hose connection on the intake manifold. Burp the air out of manifold. If you have to, remove the hose from the intake to make sure you really have fluid at the conenction and not air.
But yes, the air should eventually work it's way out.
OK You All, I might have been the old phart that cried wolf this morning because. I just went out and finished adding the coolant that I took out before the shroud/fan installation, wiped the fill hole and cap real good and replaced it. Cranked it up and as it warmed up it "only" got up to around 188 and ?then? it dropped down to 170 and slowly eased back up to less than 180. It did not puke any this time and never got up to 190.
Maybe I should take up knitting you think?
Glad you got it filled & operating, Em.
Just curious, Jerry, how do you do this "reverse fill" with a thermostat in place?Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
That is good news!
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUbetcha, my friend, I don't usually panic but I just I let my bucket get too full around here and I had run out of "Chill Pills" (aka Patience) - - but life is good now. Check your PMsQuote:
Originally Posted by 34_40
I did and thank you! So now "we" can fix the suspension and get some mufflers right?
RiiiiiiiiiiiiiiGHT
You never did say how the ham turned out??? 8-)
Fantastic - - - - now it's leftovers for a looooooooooooooooooooong time
Em,
On your radiator/cooling system, did you install a coolant recovery tank and a cap that allows back flow on cooldown, or are you still running expansion room at the top of the tank? Just wondering, because a full system with no air is better for cooling and to help prevent corrosion.
On that loop of hose connecting the pump & manifold (heater lines), that line is like having your heater in service but not taking any heat out of the system. It does take a little bit of the coolant flow into an endless loop of heat gathering, but it shouldn't be a problem given the comparable flow volumes. If you still have a cooling problem you could always drain down the level a bit, cut that small line and plug both hoses which would simulate the heater being off, and see if it makes any difference (I doubt you'll see any change, but it would put 100% flow through the radiator).
Jerry, still wondering if I'm missing something on doing a "reverse fill" with a thermostat in place? Not being critical, but it seems to me that the thermostat will block all flow into the engine?:confused: Maybe you were thinking a race application with no stat? Or I'm overlooking something again?Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
Roger, I think I'm good to go with the proper cooling now but not bragging just yet. Here's what happened on the last crank yesterday.
I cranked it up and as it warmed up it "only" got up to around 188 and ?then? it dropped down to 170 and slowly eased back up to less than 180. It did not puke any this time and never got up to 190.
I do want to fix up a puke bucket (aka overflow tank) and I will after I get it back from the muffla man, hopefully this week. Being the weird dude that I am, I'm thinking about using a large plastic Mallox bottle but I need to make a carrier for it that looks neat and allows easy removal of the bottle. Mallox bottles are Ford Blue also, as if that makes any difference. Eventually I'm gonna drill a hole in the thermostat, plug the "Jerry Line" and fabricate a puke bucket - - - along with doing everything else around here because the Wiffy's mobility is shot to hell. Not complaining I just have to get things in proper importance yanno????
Em,
I understand the need to keep priorities straight!
Just to clarify, a "puke tank" is a totally different animal from a coolant recovery tank. The "puke tank" is there just to keep coolant off the track, required at drag strips & other venues where the wet surface causes head aches. You run an old fashioned, "puke only" radiator cap, and have to keep expansion room in your radiator.
A coolant recovery tank is piped so that the tube from the radiator overflow enters (or extends to) the bottom of your tank, and you run a "two way" cap that pukes on over pressure, but then sucks back the coolant when it cools. With the coolant recovery tank your system runs full, with no (or very little) air at the top of the radiator. Your Mallox bottle might work, (the volume is pretty small) with a couple of solid tubes brazed in the cap, one short to vent the bottle, and one extending down close to the bottom for the overflow/recovery tube. It's all in what you're wanting to accomplish. For your hot region I'd go with a coolant recovery system, and a universal "kit" from an auto parts store would be a lot easier, or visit a salvage yard and find a tank that fits your space and buy a new cap & some tubing.
Roger----for filling the engine, anywhere on top is good to use---there are kits out there for flushing that are valves that go in the heater lines and you just hook a garden hose to--
If the water won't flow into the engine you might have to remove the themostat or fill it before you put the stat in---another deal these days with engines that have been around for both v belt and serpintine is the rotation of the water pump-----
As for the puke tank and recovery type rad caps---thats not necessary on vehicles with vertical rads---its necessary on crossflow rads that are lower than the fill/high point of the system---if a crossflow isn't completely full there will be air going across the top rows of rad tubes and mixed with water at the other end going into engine then in a foamy/bubbly state which won't transfer heat and then that creates hot spots which then get hotter and hotter----------
Another issue with the recovery caps( they are higher pressure ratings) on earlier rads is they can cause failures of the rad tank seams because of the increased pressure
Em---the Jerry line can be clamped off with a small c clamp, vise grips or hose clamper pliers
An item of interest for all--the 92-97 LT1 GM engines had a small bleeder screw fitting ( 1/8 npt ) that I use in a lot of cases to be able to bleed off air in systems---I buy them by I think 10 packs---I'll see if I have the part number somewhere---makes it easy to get rid of air in systems where you can't risk ---Oh, it'll probably be ok after a couple of warmup/cool downs
Yeah Jerry, I fully understand the fittings and adapters that can be used to back fill/flush. The issue here was Em trying to fill his system that has a stat installed. Pulling the top hose and back filling in this instance simply won't work, especially since Em has made it clear he's not up to pulling the stat to drill a vent hole right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
Em glad to hear the problem is sorted out! I had to go to work and didn't get a chance to follow up. I don't think at this point that you need to do anymore with the thermostat. Overflow tanks are nice as stated by Roger to keep the air out and the tank full. If the original didn't have one, you probably don't need one as Jerry stated, unless you keep finding your losing coolant over time. I'm trying to recall if my 68 Mustang had one, but it's been a long time since I've had that car.
If for no other reason except to keep the furry four legged friends from lapping up the antifreeze, I think I'll "Jerry Rig" something that catches it anyhow and if it's oddly different, like a Maalox bottle, then that's even better. Might be a pretty good way to monitor the coolant loss also.
Sure do wish it was Fall so I could play with it all day instead of just in the mornings but it's too hot after that right now in Tejas.
Seems to me that the tanks starting coming out on OEM's right around the mid to late '60's, and they were quickly seen in "universal" kits for retrofit to the older cars. Though they may not be as critical for a vertical core, I believe that they increase the overall heat capacity of the system by increasing the volume of coolant circulated; and they also eliminate the coolant/air interface in the tank to help reduce corrosion in the engine. IMO they're a good thing, necessary or not.
The mid sixties (and some later 50s) tanks were expansion tanks---they were plumbed into the system between the t stat housing and upper rad inlet--------The coolant recovery tanks came about with the emmission control era where the OEMs started running temps up to the 195 temp area for emissions--then, also radiators started to become cross flow and the problem of air in the coolant became a factor------
Found me a cool overflow bottle and it's Ford Blue and White. It's even got a handle and hanger for easy removal and replacing. Then the radiator can "P" all it wants to.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/a...f?t=1374527864
Boy I've had to used that over flow bottle a few times, and I wasn't even hot
My Wiffy looked at it and said "What's that?" I replied it's a Guy Thang ! hahaha
No women allowed
Gee Jerry, thanks for the information but I think that we know the difference between an expansion tank and a coolant recovery tank :rolleyes::HMMM: I'm likely off on the year, but what I remember clearly is the translucent plastic universal coolant recovery "kit" that included the bottle, a length of tubing to replace the radiator overflow tube and another section for drain, a few little hose clamps and a new radiator cap for about $10 at the auto parts stores. The "universal" kit came out very shortly after the OEM's added them to their new cars, and not just on cross flow radiators. Regardless, it's not worth any further discussion, especially in Em's Last HooRah thread! I'm done.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
Love the choice of coolant catcher there EM! Great choice! Somehow, just seems fitting about now too! ROFL...
OK Everybody listen up----I have been trying to add to the info in this thread on the cooling issues with Em's car---I seem to have hit a nerve with Roger over types of cooling systems and the dates they were first seen --------So---I'll drop the dates we saw what come from the factories-------I'll drop any discussion about how to get coolant in to a system without air lock---I'll drop discussion about total cooling loads of engine/trans----Hell, I'll just go back out to the garage and work on this 1971 Boss 351 Mustang for the upcoming show down at Indy. If you regulars have any questions you can PM me----------I'll check back for PMs every few days,but I'm about done here--Roger has been a very big help to me with posting pics from races, shows and shop, and I thank him from the bottom of my heart, but I'm upsetting him so I'll move on---Its been enjoyable and I've enjoyed the feedbacks and the likes I have gotten---but for now I'm taking a time out--------