Another Pontiac for the firebird

Are you planning on building your own harness or buying a pre-made one?

Personally I always used to like building my own. A couple hints if you go the DYI way;

Draw you wiring diagram out first! Make a working copy of it and update as necessary as your actually build the harnesses and laying the wiring in (chances are you're going to find something you want to add or change).

You can never have too many different colors and gauges of wire so start stocking up. For short runs old wiring harness can be a good source for wire of different colors or with trace stripes.

I like bullet connectors on circuits I might need to replace or get out the way like heater blower motors or wiper motors. Multi-circuit connectors are nice if you need to take out the complete gauge cluster or heater/AC controls.

Add one or 2 “spare” circuits going to the rear and front of the car for adding accessories at a later date.

If I’m building a custom gauged dash I usually as a red warning light. I hook it to an oil pressure light switch and temp light switch. Basically switched power to one side of the light and then a wire from the other side of the light to the 2 switches. When either switch closes (due to low oil pressure or high temp) the warning light comes on. Just piece of mind for those times in heavy traffic when you’re not paying that much attention to the gauges or for those times when someone else is driving the car who doesn’t really look at the gauges (say a wife or girlfriend AMHIK).

If you’re doing taped wiring harnesses when you get done taping, a small dab of black silicone on end of the tape (the sticky side of the tape) will prevent the tape from starting to unravel when the tape gets old.

Anyway just some thoughts.


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I'm actually planning to patch it, somewhat.

The wire looks to be 10 & 12 AWG stranded, and aside from a crappy insulated terminal crimper used, mostly bulletproof.

My biggest issue is the fusing. It's weird, they put ghe source to the relays, THEN to the fuses. I don't like it at all.
Next, the relay sockets show corrosion and signs of over temp. There are terminal strips on the firewall, but not everything jumpers there. That seems kind of half assed to me.

I'd like to get the terminal strips laid out in a reasonably intuitive and organized fashion, rewire the power feed to fuses first, eliminate anything unnecessary, add a circuit for the wipers. And I think I've convinced myself to add a relay for the starter solenoid, even though that feels like maybe one more thing that can fail.

The alternator sense wire, (field?) Can it be hot all the time? I'm thinking that's how it was.

"Can" it be? Sure, if that's how they wired it. "Should" it be? Not in my humble opinion.
Also, check that some of the fuse panel is powered all the time, and some is on the ignition switch "I" side, PLUS, some is powered when on the accessory side of the ignition switch. I think you can figure out which circuits should be active on accessory...

Thanks, that's what I'm working on.

I'm thinking very little should be hot always. Horn, brake lights, dome lamp, emergency flashers, (not equipped), cigarette lighter.

Here's the diagram download for American Autowire's Highway 15 system, and if you want the Highway 22 it's on their website, too.
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Attachment 74177
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On my roadster, the GM one-wire alternator is connected direct to the positive battery post with a #10 stranded conductor, with a braided ground strap connecting the alternator case to the block, so it's "HOT" all the time.

I suggest you read this article from Mad Electrical

Catalog

Firebird, whether you choose/have the one wire or three wire alternator you'll find that the alternator output is to the battery, so it's hot along with those other things you noted (brake lights, cigarette lighter/power source, horn, dome light, flashers if you have them, etc, etc) which is what you asked.

My electronic flasher circuit controls brake lights also, so I'll have it hot. The alternator is a three wire. I think I've seen the article, thanks for linking it.

All the schematics I've looked at show the field winding (sense lead) hot, along with the indicator lamp, but I don't see the harm in putting them on the acc. Circuit.

I've got everything coming through the firewall landed on terminal strips, so next I'll be wiring in relays. I'm definitely thinking to put a relay between the start solenoid and the switch. Should make the ignition switch last indefinitely.

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Originally Posted by firebird77clone

I've got everything coming through the firewall landed on terminal strips, so next I'll be wiring in relays. I'm definitely thinking to put a relay between the start solenoid and the switch. Should make the ignition switch last indefinitely.

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Seems to me that the starter solenoid IS the relay to protect the ignition switch, and adding a relay in the circuit is an unnecessary complication and an added failure point with little value. Just my $0.02

R.S. I can't argue that point beyond that the ignition switch failed, so I'm torn.

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Originally Posted by firebird77clone

R.S. I can't argue that point beyond that the ignition switch failed, so I'm torn.

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Electrical components fail. Used to be that many could be taken apart and cleaned/repaired, but no so in this throw away society.
Adding a relay to protect a relay or switch is redundant unless you're dealing with a very high current situation which is not the case in your situation. Finding a quality replacement ignition switch is the challenge. NOS is your best bet.

Is it possible that the switch was OEM, making it ~80 years old?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by firebird77clone

My electronic flasher circuit controls brake lights also, so I'll have it hot. The alternator is a three wire. I think I've seen the article, thanks for linking it.

All the schematics I've looked at show the field winding (sense lead) hot, along with the indicator lamp, but I don't see the harm in putting them on the acc. Circuit.

I've got everything coming through the firewall landed on terminal strips, so next I'll be wiring in relays. I'm definitely thinking to put a relay between the start solenoid and the switch. Should make the ignition switch last indefinitely.

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The flasher.. which one? 4 way "emergency" or the turn signals ? No matter, the brake light switch feeds the turn signal switch... so there is no control from the flasher. The accessory circuit will only be "live" when the key is turned into that position.... think that one through in regards to alternator! adding a relay to control a relay?? why?

Switch was not stock. I found one exactly like it, I think the generic ignition switch at O'Reillys was the same one.

The flasher unit is a little electronic box which accepts signal from brake light switch. It doesn't have a hazzard function. Maybe I should look into an upgrade.

Today was a wiring hiatus, I pulled the heater box. The stealership said the heater worked. Judging by the mouse nest, frozen temp valve, and 1/2" bolts used to block off the hoses; I'm guessing that was a lie.

I spent about an hour on ebay looking at heater cores, I picked something in brass that might work and ordered it, plus a brass cut off switch, an operator cable, and a hood latch cable. That reminds me, I need a wiper motor.

I found a kit for wiper install on a golf cart / 4 wheeler, with water bottle, nozzles, button, etc.. 50$. I'll let ya know if it works out!

The ol' girl has got tricks!

I decided to "hot wire" it and go for a ride, even though the dash is out. Besides, it gave me an opportunity to confirm the speedometer cable shaft was working. (It's not).

Anyway, the alternator wasn't charging! I double checked everything, and decided to back to O'Reilly to get checked, and it was ok. Turned out the terminals weren't mating in the plug. So, now for a ride. Nope, now it won't shut off! I was planning to use the disconnect switch in the floor to kill everything, but I had to pull ignition loose from the fuse strip. After a some dinking with it, I figured out that the disconnect only breaks the circuit if there is no load.

Strange.

I ordered a complete headlight switch from a 64 tempest. It took some grinding on the bezel with the Dremel tool, but it fits like factory. Now I'll have dimming dash lights, yay! I'll use the old headlight switch (75A rating) for the windshield wipers.

At work I chucked a button head bolt into the lathe and made a bezel for the led alternator light. It doesn't work, too long, so a couple flat washers will do the trick.

The craptastic starter switch practically fell apart when I torqued down the terminal nuts. I replaced it with the one from O'Reillys which looks similar but has a crimped ring to hold in the plastic terminal block instead of four tabs. Rated to 30A and I suppose I'll forgo a start relay.

Taking a close look at the old heater box vs. New heater core, I decided to just build a new one. Nothing complicated just functional. The new core is 8"X10"X2" and should put out lots of heat.

I have really no idea if the old heater box is original to the car, but I'll probably list it for sale. It's in very good condition, and the 4"X5" heater core seems to be good.

I selected this heater core with due consideration of the outlet angles then changed my mind on the specific install orientation. As such the outlet tubes pointed the wrong direction. My hubris compelled me to re orient the tubes. Using the acetylene torch with very small flame, I melted the solder enough to spin the tubes to a better orientation. I did a minor vacuum check, it seemed good so in it went.

Well, as soon as I saw the tubes exit from the firewall, I hated it. I should have cut the tubes off at their bend and install them out straight.

Well, such as fate had it, there was a leak and out it came. I cut the tubes down, prepped well, and resoldered them. Seeing the tubes removed, I could see why theere was a leak. Instead of just spinning the tube, I should have pulled it out and properly prepped it for re-install.

I'm not set up to do a proper pressure test on the bench, but it's easy enough to give it a proper function test tomorrow. It's already back in, but I need to pick up slightly larger diameter heater hose. The stuff I picked up is very difficult to get on the nipples. It should be snug, but not need be forced on.

Previously the air was routed to the defrost where it Teed off to another hose which spilled air on the floor. I'm going to route the air to the defrost, and put two louver vents in the box cover for air to floor.

Success.

The next larger hose was 3/4" so I tried a trick I was told this morning: I heated the hose end with a torch, and it slipped on much easier.

A celebratory trip to town (2 miles) for tacos and a margarita confirmed no leaks. Now, just waiting for the louvers in the mail.

Tomorrow wiper motor.

No wiper motor, I'm fighting a cold, so lazing around the house.

This morning I gave the heater a test run, Holy cow does it put out heat! Couldn't run the fan past low.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by firebird77clone

Couldn't run the fan past low.

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Curious, did you put in a control valve to adjust coolant flow rate?

Not yet. I have a nice brass control valve and actuator cable, getting heat was priority.

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Originally Posted by firebird77clone

Not yet. I have a nice brass control valve and actuator cable, getting heat was priority.

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LOL while heat is a priority, being able to control the heat is a bigger priority for me! I'd pipe in that valve and worry about mounting the actuator cable later if it were me. Heat is nice, but too much heat isn't so nice.

A friend once put his control valve in the return line to the water pump, and wondered why his heater core was always hot, even in the summer when his valve was closed.....

Ah, good point. Which is the source hose? The block rear corner or the water pump? Olds 403.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by firebird77clone

Ah, good point. Which is the source hose? The block rear corner or the water pump? Olds 403.

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depends on which pump and rotation. old school was from the radiator and into the block then the heads and then back into the radiator. I'd take a guess that one side of the core goes to the pump and the other side goes to the block.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by firebird77clone

Ah, good point. Which is the source hose? The block rear corner or the water pump? Olds 403.

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This vacuum diagram shows the water outlet at the top front, so the pump pulls suction from the radiator, pushing through the block.
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Attachment 74199
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Since the main hose flows back to the radiator from the top of the block/intake I think I'd put the valve in the line from the rear corner of the block, with the heater core return to the water pump, and I'd leave enough hose to be able to swap them at the core (if they're both same size), but I think you'll be good.

I've been sick for going on three weeks now, but getting better. Just a bit of congestion at this point. Today I washed the S.S.(silver streak) the continuous rain had it molding. I'm pretty sure that can damage the paint. Holy cow, this car is huge! I'm gonna drive it to work tomorrow just for kicks. Last work day before Christmas break.

Still dealing with congestion but otherwise much better, going into week five of this (probably covid) cold.

Today I made huge progress. The heater box is complete, louver vents were installed in the front cover and the cover installed. The defrost vents are plumbed in, and the AC duct reinstalled.

I got the atv wiper motor installed. It took some time. I made a mounting bracket from angle iron, and shortened the output shaft. I made a new crank arm using a uni bit to simulate the coned hole, then cut splines with a file.

The motor doesn't articulate as far as the original, so i Don't get full sweep. I might someday experiment with a longer crank arm.

Plan A will always be to avoid rain and rain x is my friend but at least I have some wiper action now.

The rear vacuum motor drives the arm directly. To modify the output shaft of this specific electric motor would be quite the challenge to get the splines good enough so the original arm would fit, but perhaps in the future I'll order another and get the rear wiper working.

The radio was mounted in the glove box, with the radio install sleeve welded to a mounting plate. I cut the old sleeve off, prepped the plate, then welded the spacers in place, then welded the old install sleeve back on. I caught the mistake, cut the sleeve back off, and welded the new sleeve on. The mounting bracket is now ready to install.

Tomorrow I should be able to mount the dash and finish the wiring.

Oh, hey, also: more testing necessary but it looks like the SS gets over 20MPG when I keep my foot out of it. Closer to ten if I fully floor the loud pedal.

Did I miss something? You have an SS now? As in Camaro? Chevelle? Or??

48 pontiac silver streak. I've taken to calling it the SS

So last night I woke at about one, couldn't sleep well afterwards. When I managed to snooze, I dreamed about re-working the actuator arm. So, today I tackled it. Added length, offset, and two hole sets. Much adjusting later, and I think I have the wipers working as well as they can with this motor. Meanwhile rain, rain.

Interesting story:

My great friend Scott borrowed the kitchen the other night, and brought his son Andrew. (His wife was ill and queasy stomach, sensitive to both aroma and odor).

Ok so the SS (Silver streak) has custom aluminum panels in place of factory apholstry, and is in dire need of polishing. I was considering paying Andrew to do it, but I figured I would test him first.

I tasked him with cleaning the chrome heat vent on the dash, which is still sitting on the work bench. Specifically in between the fins. He put in a good effort.

The next day, he asked to come over and finish. So ok.

I was trying to finish the second volume of The Count of Monte Cristo, had to put it down and take a nap. When I woke, I went to check on Andrew. He had finished the fins, and was working on the upper chrome. The upper chrome is accented with grey paint , which he mistook for corrosion.

How proudly he announced that he had managed to polish it off, it was difficult! Oh, the look on his face when I told him it was factory finish, he crumpled!

Totally my fault, and the paint was a bit beat up anyway. I wasn't at all upset, the chrome gleams, probably as good as when it left the assembly line.

Today was 70 degrees, and I'm off work this weekend.

Tried to take a spin on the Indian Chief, it refused to start. So, I pulled plugs, spun the cylinders dry, put in new plugs.
Put the battery on charge and let it sit in the sun. When the battery had charged hours later, it fired right up.

What might be done about the cold - start issue? It simply won't start below 60*

In the meantime, the dash installation was started. I've been putting it off, driving it without instrumentation.

I completed nearly all wiring, except for the radio. The tempest headlight switch had tricks. The purple wire which i used for tail lights only goes hot at first position. It turns back off at second position. What did it power?

Going to be a tad cooler tomorrow, but I'll plan to finish it out.

I'll hazard a guess that the purple wire was for parking lights that turned off when the headlights went on.

On the Indian, I'd put a Battery Tender on it between rides.

The chief gas a mega expensive glass matt bat always kept on a smart trickle charger as per specified by the battery mfg. It's a dual-coil pack, and I notice the front cylinder doesn't fire until after it starts. Wires looked good, maybe throw a new coil in it? Makes me wish I had a scope to see what the signal to the coil looks like. I gapped the plugs down to .025 from. 030

I'm getting a can of start fluid, see if that helps.

How old is your AGM battery? A while back I was having terrible starting issues with my coupe and while the battery showed full voltage it had only about 50% capacity and the voltage dropped with the first crank - not enough for a hot spark and not enough to fire injectors. I'd take the battery to someone who can load check it (I used a Batteries Plus store). If your battery is good then your idea on the coil pack is reasonable. Are you running pure gas, no Ethanol? You might think about getting a carburetor kit and rebuilding your carb(s) if the coil swap doesn't help.