Does anyone else ever think....

Does anyone else ever think....
that they are over their head building their cars? When I first got my plymouth I thought it would be easy or easier than its turning out. But as I sanded down the body started finding rust holes through the skin, they are small but still annoying. And know that I am tearing the interior apart I am finding out that the floor pan is rusted to hell.
I guess I should have expected this but its still pisses me off that I know have to replace the whole floor pan, which brings me to my next questions for all you great minds out there.
1. What guage metal should I use for the replacement pans?
2. Should I overlap the welds or butt weld them? And what precausons should I take to keep the welds from rusting again? I have found a few forum sites that mention this, but no one seems to agree on how to weld it. Some say butt weld as if you over lap it will rust out. Others say as long as you clean the overlap to bare metal and seal up the welds top and bottom and use seam sealer it will be fine. I am more confused now than ever on replacing the floor pan.

Sorry for my rambling just got to get it out before I do something stupid like selling the car.

Thanks for the help and listening to my b&$chin and moaning.

Don't give up Tim. Don't think of it as being over your head. You're just learning new skills.

Rusty floors are a common problem around here. If you can find a supplier of replacement floor pans you should buy them. It makes the job much easier and faster. The 49 Plymouth isn't as popular as old Fords or Chevys so you might have to make your own.

I'm not sure what gauge steel I use but when I need to make floorpans I go to the dump and get a door from an old refrigerator or skin an old washing machine. It's heavier than the sheets of body steel they sell at the parts store and it's free.

Use a sheet of cardboard to make a pattern for the floor. For difficult areas I use masking paper and cut it to fit and mark where it needs to be bent. You can tape these to the cardboard to make it one piece or cut them out seperatley and weld in one piece at a time.

Butt welding is best in theory. I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner. It's very time consuming making everything an exact fit all the way around and nearly impossible.
I put the pan in place and trace around it with a marker then pull it out and cut about 1/2 inside the line for a minimal overlap. Then grind off the paint or rust from about 1 inch around the edge of the hole. Some people just tack it in with a mig and use body sealer between the welds. I like to use the torch and gas weld all the way around the edge. When it cools I go under the car and paint it with rustoleum making sure I push it up into the overlap with the brush. When it dries you can put body sealer in there just to be safe. I usually just seal it with rubberized undercoating.

Thanks Al, I'm not about to give up. Just upset that when I think I made some steps forward I find something else that needs to be replaced or worked on, Seems like I'm not getting any closer to the finish.
I wisj I would have known about the fridge and washer thing a few weeks ago as I just got rid of an old fridge and washer and dryer. Oh well plenty more out there I guess.
Thanks for the tips. Luckily the floor is pretty flat with the 49 No dips at the doors (or very small) and the tranny hump is low.

My 37 was real bad as i had to make the whole floor boards too.
Yes i could of purchased every panel I needed but was quite abit of money , so instead of buying the floors , I bought a 4 ' finger break, bead roller, and 4- 4x8 sheets of 16 guage sheet metal and did my own. Plus it was cheaper doing it this way , and now I have a couple of cool tools in my garage.

The break and bead roller get used quite abit as my friends come over and use them to build their bodys for their IMCA, and sprint cars.

I know everyone doesnt have the money to buy tools , and Al has a good suggestion , Might check around for old hoods and trunks from body shops as they have tons of throw away parts from wrecks. as we have a huge metal dumpster we throw our old parts in .

Over lap welding panels is easier for sure , if done this way use weld through primer between the areas to be welded. You can weld along the patch panel edges or you can drill some holes in the patch panels evey 4-6 inches and plug weld , as this makes for a cleaner looking patch panel.
Then use a good seam sealer to go around the edges to keep water out.


Spray

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Originally posted by joker51
Does anyone else ever think....
that they are over their head building their cars?

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Great ideas. Only thing I could add iz'.... Don't look at it as one big project that has no end in sight. Think of it as a lot of little projects that you can knock out one at a time.

Tim, you've got lots of company. Just about anyone who's ever gotten into refurbishing old cars has had the same experience. Underestimating the amount of work necessary is a national pasttime. It even happens to the pros. That show on Coddington's shop went to the wrecking yard to get the '56 Chev body for their second project. When they got it back to the shop and stripped away all the interior and trim they found out it was a real blivet. Ended up going back to the yard to get a "better" one. Better in this case means it still needed a lot of patching, but less than the first one.

Here's another frustration you'll have somewhere down the road. Some day someone who's just getting into doing a car will ask for advice. You'll relay your experience to them and be generous about warning them of the realities of old car repair. Most often they won't believe you, might even argue with you. They've got it figured out!!! If they aren't too stubborn they'll learn something, maybe, just maybe, they'll even thank you. Or, they'll learn the hard way.........and you won't ever hear from them. That's life! I'm reminded of our new buddy looking at the '34 coupe when I suggested that he might be looking at some engine expense to undo the boy racer mods. At first he said everything was fine with the engine. Later, and fortunately for him as he passed, he learned it had 15/1 compression ratio!!

Just to tack on to Spray's comment, the weld through primer is really a necessity for overlap welds to avoid future corrosion. It's available at any wholesale/retail automotive paint supply house.

Thanks Guys, again I really appreciate the reassurance that I am not alone in this.

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Originally posted by joker51
Thanks Guys, again I really appreciate the reassurance that I am not alone in this.

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He He He, joker51, If you want some reassurance at your NOT alone, click on the camera to the right of my name. I'm about a yr. into the project and that's how far I've gotten. I'm not giving up, just gettin' sidetracked with work, N' stuff.

Hey Pro, you are farther than I am on either of my cars. I have been doing the touring car for 4 1/2 years now and still just have the body done. But then again it took me 3 years just to get all the body dug up and home. 60 years of dirt covering it is a little hard to dig through.
And with the plymouth I don't even have it off the frame yet. Thinking right now I won't take it off the frame, I will replace the suspension and the rear end throw a quick paint job on it and build a new frame later to move it over to. I just want to drive it right now. Thats my problem I think, I am too impatient with cars, I need to get them done as fast as I can. Its been 4 months since I got the car, in the past I would be putting everything back together by now, not still taking it apart and reapairing body parts.

Tech, I usually figure out what I want first then find a car that will go with my thoughts, On my camaro I spent 2 years figuring out what I wanted, finished the whole car in 6 months. But that was also with being able to work on it at least 4 hours a day more on the weekends and being able to bring it up to school when I was taking auto mech in high school. That really helped me get it done fast. All the others were pretty much complete when I started working on them.
I guess 4 months for advancement is a little hard to achieve when the car is this old and hasn't seen the road in 36 years and no ones worked on it in 15yrs.
Now that I talk more about this the better I feel about what I have actually gotten done so far.

To me building is the fun part. When I take people out to the toy room to show them the "Z", almost without fail they will ask "When will you have it done?" I always say "When it's Finished". I have no time frame. I work on the car when I'm tired of working on the day to day stuff. Mostly in the winter. My idea of relaxing is taking a Saturday off, going out to the toy room whenever I finally wake up and just taking my time "playing" not working, on the car. :o :o :o

Pretty much anything i go at is based on the "What does it need now" principle. I just dive right in, eyeball it out and get to work. Sometimes it has caused problems, like a 5.0 not starting for a week, but it usually gets done. Just rememberm if it wasnt for you, that car would either be in a junkyard, sold to some punk whos gonna smash it, or in a rare case, still buried in the ground.

I guess my main problem right now is time, I gotta get the car out of my dad's garage by july 7th, I was hoping to have the body work done by then, but now with the floor pan it aint gonna happen. But I got a friend that said I can park it at his place since I don't have my garage built yet and have no room in the driveway for it. So that means less time to work on the car. But that will give me the chance to fabricate the floor pan, and maybe rebuild the original tranny and sell it for some cash for this project. I plan on doing this car for under $1000 out of my pocket. So far I only have $50 into it, if you don't count the purchase and towing of the car. :3dSMILE:

Just posted some pics in my gallery of the interior and the rust holes. If anyone wants to take a look at them.

Just looked at the pics joker and let me tell ya ...living in Michigan i've seen much worse:LOL:

Hang in there bud we've all had those feelings,my GTO started out as i 1 winter project with just a motor swap in store for it....now 4 years later the only parts left from the original car is the roof and half of each rear quarter:eek:

But when you get the car done and stand back to get a eye full of all your work it WILL be worth it!:toocool:

BG

I am looking at building one of those, I have been thinking about that for awhile now. Just need to find out what my lot is so I stay in it, and I am getting the run around right now, The city says they don't have the property lines as the land is rented out in lots, and the property owner is telling me I have to find the lines from the city. Then I can lay the pad and go buy one.

Man I need to start renting a bay. Ok my rule of thumb for this project is take my original estimate, and add the number of weeks in the average year multiplied by 1000 and that's my starting cost($65000 is my starting cost anything under that is great). My car is not that bad off either.

Marclar, this is marclar. Approaching marclar. :p

Hey Joker, have you thought about a donor pan?? I was faced with this same querry last month with my 50 and while I was sitting & figgering & farting, I started going over all the stuff I had to haul to the scrap yard- and there , upside down, was a old S-10 cab from a frame donor.
I split it into 4 parts with the old trusty sawzall, clipped the rockers to go along, and there it was a new 50 floor pan, with upgrades for the late model tranny built in.

Streets, reason I want to lay a pad is so I have a a strudy place to jack the car up on and all that rather than just dirt or gravel.
hambiskit, I have been thinking that, but not sure what vehicle would fit my plymouth, and also was thinking that the donor pan might just be as bad as the original or getting as bad once I start cleaning it up. I don't know I think I will just hold on with the pan until I get it into a garage portable or what not. Then I can take the time to measure it all out and see if I can find a new vehicle that will fit and find it cheap, or just build one from scratch.

Thanks again guys for all the help and support

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Originally posted by techinspector1
HUH ?

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Do me a favor Tech. Watch the 3rd season of South Park. then you'll get it.

Well guys, I just finished tearing out all the interior, seats carpet and all that crap. And I feel a heck of a lot better about the car, seems the only rust area is in the front, the back seat area is still solid, surface rust only, nothing going through. So the only places I need to replace are the front and a spot in the trunck over where the spare tire sits. And the best part is that its all flat, no dips or humps except the tranny hump and thats solid except for one spot about the size of a quarter, so I have plenty of good metal to work with. And I just talked to my dad and he said we have plenty of steel around 20 gauge up at the farm that was left over when they built the graineries.

LOL thanks streets, I think I already made waves with them when I parked the car on the grass beside my house for 2 months before they told me to move it as my neighbor complained because he is trying to sell his place for twice what its worth. Some people just think their homes are worth more than they really are and blame others for it not selling I guess.
But I just might do that, I think I will take up the grass and put down gravel beside my house up to where I believe the line it and go from there, for now.
Also I got more pics of the interior if anyone cares LOL. Just click my WWW button as I am making a website of the progress, Its a simple site for now, I will improve it later when I have more time and my other computer running that has all my webpage programs on it from when I was designing sites.

Also guys, got another question, What is the crap that is sprayed on the floorboards? Its looks almost like a rhino lining type spray, this has to be original on my car, Just want to know what it is so I can spray it back on after I put in the new floor.
Thanks

It might be somthing like tar.

Not sure, right now it just breaks off and is a gray color, looks almost like a thick layer of primer, but its not primer.
Any suggestions on what to cover the floor with to help stop rust and corrosion from moisture?

I would sand the rust off ( or sand rust smooth ) and then apply some dupli rattle can sandable primer, that should slow the rusting prosess

Quote:

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Originally posted by joker51
Not sure, right now it just breaks off and is a gray color, looks almost like a thick layer of primer, but its not primer.
Any suggestions on what to cover the floor with to help stop rust and corrosion from moisture?

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por-15

Everytime I get into a building a car I feel that way. As you I start off thinking it will be easy and as I dig in find more and more wrong with the car, before you know it I went into the car way more than I really wanted to and spent way more money than I wanted to.
Just keep on working on it and it will be finished one day. The 73 RS camaro I have now took me 8 years to get on the road. Just take your time and get it right the first time. I took a few short cuts on mine near the end, when painting and I'm paying for it now. I have some solvent pops and have some damn compound all up in places where I can't get it out because I let it dry up like a fool. Next time I will piece paint the car like I intended to do in the first place.

Matt, I am doing the car in Krylon or Rustoleum auto primer in rattle can already, Can't remember if its krylon or not, I think its rustoleum though.
How much does Por-15 run? I checked for it around here a few months ago and they looked at me like I was an idiot, Had no idea what Pro-15 was, and that was at Napa. Go figure.

hey Joker51, you can type on Por 15 and do a search on it. Plenty of places sell it and ship it to you. It will give you a little bit of a price shock though the last time I looked. It's some great stuff, it actually neutrilizes the rust and it won't come back, but you have to pay for it. It's hard as hell also, makes a great base to paint over or you can just leave it as is.

73RS I see its about $33 a quart, About how much area will that cover? Do I need more or less than a quart for the interior and possibly underneath?

I looked at one of the sites and it states a quart will cover 96 square foot area on a non porous surface. Not sure how big your car is, you could probably take some rough measurments to get an idea.