valve tool questions

Hi Gang,
We just got a second hand SnapOn valve seat grinder and Valve face grinder both are in great shape and it looks like from the on line SnapOn prices we made a good deal for the $500 we paid.

There were a couple of other tools that got thrown in on the deal like a metric tap and die set a set of Moore Wright inside mikes and a Snap On AVR meter. By the way the new current model replacement price for both valve grinders is over $12,000cdn.

There is a drawer full of grinding stones and what look like shafts that would fit into the valve guides
I looked into our catalogue but there is not too much information on the operation but lots of options for different stones.


My question how do you know which grinding stones to use?

I looked in my repair manuals and see that a 3 different angle are required for a VW industrial motor on a saw mill that we will be rebuilding shortly.

Are there any good books that might show how to get the most out of these tools
thanks
hank

Go to the Goodson online site www.goodson.com Look it over and you will get an idea of what the stones are and their use. Most automotive valve jobs are done with a 45 degree exhaust seat. and the valve ground at 44 1/2 degree. Intakes are usually ground to either 30 degree or 45 degree depending on the original seat. With the valve being also ground to the 1/2 degree difference to insure a good seat. Different grade stones are determined by color. Hard seats use the harder stones and some stones are general purpose.. see Goodson catalog. The pieces that fit in the guides are Pilots. They also come in many sizes. Over and undersizes in .001" increments and some are adjustable. They must fit tight in a good guide so the stone sleeve/stone assembly can cut a good seat.

A 30 degree stone will lower the final seat in the head. A 60-70 degree stone will raise the seat in the head being ground.

thanks BOBCRMAN,
for Goodsons site. there is sure as lot of interesting reading ahead for me there.

That VW industrial motor asks for a 45 + 15 + 75 degree angles on the valve seat.
The factory manual mentions a cutter to do the job. Does that mean a different tool than the grinding stones or is a cutter what the "stones" are called.
I sent a email to SnapOn asking for a copy of the operation manuals for the valve tools.

Is our SnapOn valve seat tool made by SnapOn or do they slap their name on it?

Any suggestions on books to learn the tools operation-
thanks for your time
hank

You can use stones to cut the seats. The factory uses special profile cutters to do the job. I use a Serdi, but for what you are doing a stone setup will do just fine...

I would assume that the valve grinder you have is made by Kwik-Way, Souix, Sunnen or one of the other manufacturers and re labeled Snap-On. I know they do that on a lot of their specialty tool stuff.

For a look at the profile cutters go to www.newaymfg.com I use their cutters for small engines. Kholer, Kawasaki, Briggs&Strugglin etc.

Also try www.silver-seal.com they have some specialty stuff

Thanks again

"Briggs&Strugglin" you got that right
hank

Thanks DennyW
I agree"Bob gave you a lot of good info".
I've been reading the posts on the Goodson site,
a lot of info there also.

We have a few heads to practice on, I just have to figure what stones to use for which valves seats.

The diamond wheel dresser did come with the set + a extra diamond screw.

I hope SnapOn comes through with the operation manuals

Any books that you know of to help a bozo like me?
happy trails
hank

Hi Gang,
Bump---To bring this back to the top
http://towd.smugmug.com/photos/250976888-M.jpg

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diamond grinding wheel dresser
this tool you dress the grinding stone to the different angles for the valve seat in the head
great tools but the training manual just doesn't have all the answers it would be nice having experienced helper

I dresssed the grinding stone to 45*
I did all the intake valves seats to 45*
now I'm thinking I should use this diamond wheel dresser to change the angle to what ever the other two angles?? are

then doing the next angle on the grinding stone dresser
then grind the 4-intake valve seats
dressing the wheel to the next angle
then grind the seats again to this angle

my question is would I dress this same wheel (45*) to the other angles ??
In my 1955 VW transporter manual the VW valves seats are 75* 45* 15*
Then in a 1963 Trade school training manual showing the two tools above----- they grind American car valves seats to 60* 45* 20*

I haven't found the three angles for the Volvo motor we are rebuilding
but expect to have that info tomorrow

Does the exhaust valve seat also get the 3 angle grind?

I ordered up 4 new exhaust valves
thanks
hank

i am selling my neway stuff on ebay item 230219982455 if anyone as a interest they work very good and fast have no need for it any more. i use a tobin apr /sunnen seat and guild machine now .the neway works good with the drive motor for cutting heads out for bigger valves .i still have all my stones and will still keep them . i like to fine the tune in the 45 with stones still

you can flip the stone and cut a 30 on one side and a 45 on the other side this way you get more bang for you buck then you want one 60 any time you use stones you want a bounce springs this keeps from digging in and blowing up the stone .lay out helps to see were you are on your 45 i use a big felt tip mark and mark the seat at 12:00 and6:00 9:00 and3:00 this helps alot i will first grind the 30 angle them the 60 mark with the marker the old 45 should be allmost gone at this point then lay the new 45 down i run my 45 at 060 on intake and 080 on the ex i lap in every thing i use the fine clover oil base lapping compound it is the best. i run a 45 seat and a 45 on the valve to check were the valve is hitting the seat put marker on the valves face with marker and give it a good slap pull it out and you will see were it hit on the seat it this point you can see were your at and can be move up or down with the stones.i will move them on race engines but stock stuff you want to hit in mid point on the valve face your good

To get the tricks on a valve grinder, find the "old guy" that every town has, and get him to show you the ropes.
Don't change angles on a stone, they won't last long if you do that. Get one for each angle needed. Flipping the stone, as mentioned, gets a two-in-one stone.

i buy stones with a 00 angle and cut them for the job a 45 and a 30 may last longer the 60 is very steep and you realy should all ways use a bounce spring the makeup of the stone and how hard of a seat your cutting will wear the stone down i like the ruby red stones they are the old BD makeup and for a fine finsh the SX gp stones the stones should be dress every now and then the speed and the weight put on the grinder can add to the break down along with a very hard seat never force the grinder to do the job. if it is not cutting pick different stone make up you need to have a light touch with the stones or they can blow up and if you push to hard you can throw the seat off and have run off

your seat grinder looks to be the old BLACK AND DECKER i had one the pilots are gruv-top and now made by goodson

Thanks for the info guys
I'm heading out to find the "old guy"
hank

did not find the "old Guy" who could show us the trick to using those tools as they should be

The tip on flipping the stones and getting a second side made good sense
but I still need to get two more stones to finish off the job

I have another question

is that diamond wheel dresser really a diamond? The reason I ask is ours just seems like a bolt-- I'm going to order a new diamond.
and Snap On stuff is not cheap and calling the tool a diamond sound expensive.

thanks for the help
hank

you can get the diamond dresser tool they go buy the size not any thing to do with snap on and like i said looks to me it is old BD seat grinder.snap-on just put there name on it. so the stones have a 9/16-16 thread .any thing in auto machine tools and supplies are not cheap i buy some of tools and supplies on e-bay. every time you dress the stone turn the dresser a small bit this keeps it sharp .if you read thru what i posted and other you do not need the OLD MAN at some time you need to get the feel for the tools you have that comes with time

I hear you loud and clear on getting a feel for the tools that is something I'll have to keep working at.

I just hate the thought of screwing something up while getting that part of the learning -
I have a trade school workbook and it goes over the whole valve overhaul using the same machines that we have but just isn't the same as having someone looking over my shoulder( I guess that is you guys now)
The old guy I got the tools from was the mistro around here and he is gone and nobody to take his place


The next question
to order the stones I measure the valve we are using and get the stones the same size.
I guess I'm having a hard time getting my mind around the different places on the seat that the stones grind or the 70* has to be a smaller stone than the 45* due to the shape of the seat
thanks again guys
hank

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TOW'D

I hear you loud and clear on getting a feel for the tools that is something I'll have to keep working at.

I just hate the thought of screwing something up while getting that part of the learning -
I have a trade school workbook and it goes over the whole valve overhaul using the same machines that we have but just isn't the same as having someone looking over my shoulder( I guess that is you guys now)
The old guy I got the tools from was the mistro around here and he is gone and nobody to take his place


The next question
to order the stones I measure the valve we are using and get the stones the same size.
I guess I'm having a hard time getting my mind around the different places on the seat that the stones grind or the 70* has to be a smaller stone than the 45* due to the shape of the seat
thanks again guys
hank

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the stone should be abit bigger then the 45 needs to be the bigger then the vavles size about .100 more will work or bigger if you going to face it 30/45 i would try a 65 that can all so be bigger then the inside of the 45 of the valves you want this it will help keep it of screwing down past the out side id of the stone if it jams up it will blow up the stone .if the stone clears any thing like the chamber or any thing that will hit it the stones can be trimed with the dresser . i use bigger stones to break any shape casting that can make a hot spots and could help for low lift air flow if you try the 65 make sure you use the bounce spring

denny or what i said works if you have the room allways use a bigger stone if you do not have a stone and you need the right size to order you can put the pilot in the head then put a stone on stone holder and added to the stone you have and see how much you have before it hit some thing and order that size stone or just put the pilot in and eye ball it hold a ruler across the center line of the pilot to the out side of were it could hit the chamber wall add by two then thats the stone you can use the 45 is never the outsid of the ID of the valve and the 30 is so say a2inch valve add 100 for just a stone with the 45 add a 100 for the 30 is a 2.200 stone round up 2.250 would be the size of stone for a 30/45 stone if your going to cut a two for one stone

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DennyW

Yes Pat, I know what you mean. Just trying to give a little insight on how to look at the area before picking the stones. I always bought the bigger stones, and trim the sides if need be, also. :)

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yes ok i know photos help