Return of the start "click"......

OK....so after the steam clean fiasco...and the initial "click" on start problem....I followed some advice and went through all the wiring I at least understand and made sure everything was grounded properly. The alternator situation was fixed as well through that.

What has started to happen again is the darn "click" upon ignition:

1) Battery is fine, alt is fine, starter is fine. Grounds (as far as I can test) are fine.

2) The following will happen regardless of whether I have done several short stops and re-starts,...whether I drive her for 40 minutes then shut done once,...and re-start 10 minutes later...etc. it is COMPLETELY intermittent without any logical variable to pin-point. It has maybe done this 3 times over 4 days of driving....NOT every time at all.

UPON START: I get a "click"..no starter motor engagement at all...idot lights come on dash as they should and voltmeter momentarily pegs zero.
Upon SECOND TRY (so far) the car fires right up..no problem. Then I can shut her down and start her 3 times in a row without and further "click"......like I said no consistency at all.

THE CLICK seems to come from inside the dash or engine compartment (I know...pretty vague). But it is definately NOT a mechanical sounding click.

3) WHAT components are involved and what path of current is used when a "start" is engaged. My newbie knowedge tells me we have the switch in the column, the ignition coil and the starter motor.....?....But in what order,...and WHERE to start looking for a problem. Especially with something sooooo intermittent.

THE ONLY variable that is applicable here is that this NEVER happened at all prior to that darn steam (pressure :-( cleaning.
But I have checked everything I know of for corrosion,....but it is what I do not know to check that is concerning me..........

Any help would be greatly appreciated....
Thanks again guys!.......

btw - No Streetz...I am not ready to scrap the car and get a pail that runs.

:) :)

Interesting Streetz.....
I will see if I can trace the wires to that switch on the column,...and then where they go from there.

I will also try the "out of park and back in"....but I can only do that if it clicks twice,.....so far...when it clicks,...the nect time I try it fires right up.

The click is the relay kicking in but not completing the circuit. You didn't say what kind of car you have. Fords mount the relay on the inner fender. GM relay is part of the solenoid on top of the starter. When I have that problem I tighten the starter connections. If that doesn't work I take the starter cable off, clean it and the nut with sandpaper and put it back together. It's worked every time. On Fords the relay connection needs to be cleaned too. On a GM car you may need to clean all the connections on the solenoid.
AL

Al, he's got one of those BIG BLOCK BOB'S.

Jeff, it could be the solenoid hangin' up, that's the smaller cylindrical unit on top of the starter. Just make sure again on all the connections.

Interesting.....the relay concept makes sense....but I wonder why it is soooo intermittent. And this go around it does it ONCE,...then fires the next time.

It looks like I am FINALLY going to have to buy some fo those ramps so I can get under the car.....there is NO WAY to get at the starter motor or relay from up top due to the headers........PLUS the starter motor is wrapped in heat pad.

I do notice that the main pos. battery cable runs to the starter motor...there are a few more HEAVY gauge cables down there too....I jsut can't tell where they're going from or to.

- Bob,.....yup...those connections I was not able to check. Looks like I MUST check 'em now.....

- AL - its a 73 Nova ss with a Chevy 454.....

I

I know you said that you checked the grounds, but this sure sounds like an intermittent connection, ie: poor ground.
Those other heavy gauge wires you see at the starter are the (+) wires that feed the ignition switch, fuse box, headlights, etc. They should be fuseable links.
If the wire colors are correct, the purple wire is the start wire, connected to the "s" terminal of the starter, and back to the Ign. switch.
If you can catch it in the act, do a voltage drop from the purple wire at the starter while cranking. It should read extremly close to zero, and not more than around .6 volts. (FYI- it should read 0 volts key on in the run position) If it reads more than .6, you have a bad connection (corrosion) or a poor ground.

I know this is not the same as a direct test of the wire.....
But my gauge cluster voltmeter does show anm immediate drop to 0 when I hit ignition,....

I reallllly think I need to get under there and check the connections at the solenoid and motor .....

Jeff, that's how us geezers end up with a shop full of tools and equipment. Each car creates opportunities (excuses?) to buy another "necessity". Also makes it easier to give family and friends birthday and Christmas wish lists. Old cars are so useful that way!!

Well,...I have not been able to pick up the ramps yet. So I have not checked the starter motor/solenoid connections yet.

But I did get a 4 click start today,...and the sound is definately coming from the direction of the starter motor/solenoid. After 4 clicks,...it fired up. Been run off and on all day before that.....and it was cold too....no heat flooding involved in this equation,.

Also,...from what I can tell by peering through the headers,...there are 2 LARGE gauge wires going to it,...a red and a blue. Then there appear to be 2 smaller gauge black wires...and I think I see one of the black wires coming from the FRONT of the solenoid area then loopiong back out the back of the heat wrapping it is all in. (The heat wrapping further adds to the difficulty of seeing what wires are where...)

I assume this small device (possibly cylindrical) is the solenoid??

Anyway if anyone has any comments on this info or the wires....great!

Either way I will be getting under there and checking all this out hopefully tomorrow.....

The cylindrical thingy is the solenoid. I dont know if you have an HEI didtributor or not. If you do, you should have the (+) cable hooked to the largest post on the solenoid, then 2-3 fusable links on the SAME post. The small post on the inside edge,(next to the block) marked "s," should have one wire on it. Factory color is usually purple.
If you have a point type distributor, the other small post, marked "r" will have a wire going to the (+) side of the ignition coil. If you have electronic ignition, this wire is not needed. In fact, newer solenoids dont have the R post.

I think I have an HEI distributer....there's a huge High Voltage box sitting on top of it that protrudes a steel post down into the distributer......Otherwise it is a round distrib with a spinning box with a contact on it that makes contact with the spark wires.....
Does that sound like HEI or points? (Everyone please laugh at this one.......)

:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

Self deprecating humor is a good thing Jeff!!

Sounds like one of those HEI thingies to me.;)

Yes bob,...I learned long ago that one's ignorance can serve as anothers entertainment. :-) And that makes me a very entertaining person.....


I cannot wait to get under there tonight with my new Rhino Ramps and hopefully,....find corroded contacts....if not....argh!

On a side note........is it possible for a car to have 2 voltage regulators,........on my passenger side firewall I have a small black box (2"x1.5") mounted with a 3 prong plug and another 1 prong plug that is connected (and runs behind the engine over towards the drivers side,....have not been able to trace yet)........and on the DRIVERS side firewall I have another small box which has a bolt on it with alot of the wires attached to it with eyelets. This has mystified even the 'smart' Advanced Auto employees (I am family there now).....

UH,.....seriously on the passenger side box??

It IS hooked up currently,...has a 3-wire plug going onto the 3 prong part,...and a single wire plug going onto the single prong.....unfortunately the are hard to trace as the wiring is not very well color coded and runs behind the engine in a 'impossible' to view way. I just wonder what purpose they serve?.....


I have spent hours and hours finding wires,.....tracing them and finding out they dead end somewhere .....this car seems to have been re-wired like 3 times without ever removing the old wiring....makes for a great time.

if I knew enough I would LOVE to rip it all out and re-wire from scratch......theres only the dash, lights, radio, wiper motor and ignition/starter system......

Poured rain last nite so I was unable to ramp the car and check the solenoid connections..etc..etc.

Upon talking to my mechanic today....he suggested the motor is going bad. He said the engine stops in 1 of 3 positions (rotational?) and that there is a bad spot on the 'armature' (I think he used that word) and that is where I get the click,....but it nudges it just enough so that the 2nd firing is on a good spot and thats why the car fires. He suggests I go out and buy a new Hitachi starter motor .....and install it my self.

He said if it was a ground problem, it would happen more often and not always fire the 2nd time around. He said a loose conection is possible,....and to check...but he doubts it...once again due to the fact it clicks,...then fires.

Does any of this make any sense or sound reasonable?