Bebops Floor Fender + shocks

I have been making good progress on my Bebops 'glass '29 without showing any pictures but I feel I am getting somewhere. Everything underneath is done except for battery cable, ground cable and fuel line after I played around for quite a while with the handbrake cables. Anyway I made a template out of 3/16" plywood with cutouts around the shifter, handbrake, brake pedal and the round part of the 700R4 hump and transferred the pattern to the 'glass floorpan using two mounting bolt holes in the frame and then sawed out the same pattern using a sabre saw. After a little wiggeling and shoving my son and I got the floorpan on the frame and the cutouts fit just fine, in the front. However now the top of the rear coilover shocks stick up about 1" into the floor pan space and I need to make cutouts for the coilovers. Does anyone else have a Bebops floor who can show me a picture of how much to cut out? Of course I can just cut and cut until it fits, but I want to figure out how to make a neat hole over each coil over and then 'glass over the hole with something. Ideally I need to find some sort of plastic containers that I can invert over the holes and then 'glass around the bottom edge to prevent water from splashing up into the rumble seat area but I am trying to think what kind of plastic will bond well to the fiberglass and I don't want to use metal so as not to have rust later on. Another consideration is that the hole needs to be large enough to get my hand up into to adjust the setting knob on the coilover shock. I know I will figure this out eventually, but maybe someone else has already solved this problem? Maybe I could "trap" two butter containers over the holes with glass tape around the edges so even if it doesn't bond the glassed in tape will hold them, but it would be better to have cups that will bond to the polyester soup in the fiberglass. Just for information I was able to hang a battery box underneath the frame behind the pumpkin and it is totally covered by the floor pan. Since I am adding a fiberglass rolled pan at the bottom edge of the trunk area I doubt if anyone will be able to see the battery unless they kneel down to look, although I may have to put a piano hinge on the roll pan to permit access to the battery. Now the battery is right in the center of the rear of the frame and the bottom edge of the battery box is at least 3" above the bottom of the pumpkin. Comments on some sort of plastic cups I can invert and glass in over the coilovers?

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don, if all you want are a couple "bumps" you can make your own by using a bowl, storage container, whatever that's got a shape something like you prefer. Use it as either a male or female mold. Slather it up with wax (Rupnow goes into more detail in his top thread, so similar procedure), and lay in/on some cloth/resin. Mark where you want them by going underneath and drilling markers for location to cut the holes you want to cap. Grind back the gelcoat and use bonding resin to attach the caps you've made. A little body work and you're golden.

Now, think about some other things. If I recall you think you want to have a rumble seat arrangement. Don't forget to think about the affect of a couple of "bumps". Depending on what you want and where it all falls in relation to footroom and seat placement, it may be more practicle to cut out a section of the floor in one piece and raise it the necessary amount. Again I'm just guessing here, so this is just a thinking exercise, but lets say you could cut a section 4" wide (actually front to rear of car) and say 25" long (across the width of the compartment) and just raise it say 1.5". If you're clean about your cut line you just form a dam around the opening, reuse the cut section as the "top" of your raised section, and glass in around the perimeter, removing the dam after curing of the new cloth/resin added. Part of this will depend on how you want to finish the floor for the future. As often happens you'll need to put down some sort of material, sheet metal, plywood, hardboard, whatever to give the appearance of a flat floor, unless you're happy with the look of a floor with "bumps", though your upholsterer won't keep you on his Christmas card list if you make his job too dificult.

Bob, Thanks for replying. I forgot about the "wax-release" trick, that is a good idea and I can use a pint potato salad container or something similar for the mold. Since I now have the tank from Rock Valley, the accompanying picture of the "Rumble-seat tank" mockup shows there is a space of almost 4" of non-support under the ends of the tank so with your suggestion I can build up the humps with a flat top level with the bottom of the tank for added support there. With some chemistry experience in "what sticks to what" I was concerned about the polyester resin not sticking to a potato salad container but with your suggestion I can put say two layers of glass cloth criss-cross and once it is coated with resin I don't care if it sticks or not but maybe I could just put some nail holes in the salad container and allow the resin to latch onto the container and leave it in there. I sort of jumped the gun here asking for help before thinking about it over night. You may not know it but several colleague scientists have confessed to me that at our age of over 60 they too only get an occasional idea in the shower once a day; in research such lucid moments are highly prized and cultivated. Maybe it is just the idea of being alone without phone calls etc., so maybe by tomorrow I might have figured it out but you have given me a great idea of how to give more support to the tank as well as solve the space issue for the coilovers. I have previously fiberglassed two small boats so I know how to do it although it is not my idea of fun! Thanks again!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Here is another shot looking down on the two flat spots where the bumps are needed on either side of the main hump. This picture also shows the 4" steel bar I bolted behind the tank position for some mimimal armour for the tank, although the tank is already 14 gauge stainless steel. Gee just talking it over helped me figure it out!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don---Here's a neat trick. Figure out what diameter of hole you need, and what height the "bubble" has to be. Go to the cooking ware shop and get a pair of "tupperware" type plastic bowls that are the correct diameter and depth. Take a peice of heavy cardboard and cut a hole in the center, just big enough to let the bowl slide through, then tape it to the bowl from the back side all around so that the cardboard is flush with the open side of the bowl. Lay on a liberal coating of pastewax inside the bowl and about 1" to 2" onto the cardboard. Lay up 2 or 3 layers of mat and resin on the inside of the bowl and extending out onto the cardboard.
When it hardens, pop the glass out of the bowl and off the cardboard, then trim around the flat area that extended out onto the cardboard so that you have a bowl shape with a flat flange about 3/4" wide all around it. Cut the holes in your floor and stick the bowl up through the floor from underneath. Then you can do what bonding you require between the flange and the underside of your floor.----the bowl shape won't need any bodywork on the side that shows, as it will have conformed exactly to the interior shape of the bowl.

Brian, Thanks for the "bubbleware" idea. It now will come down to what bowl or container I find, but in this case maybe a flat bottom (top) will be better under the tank. Let me look around and see what container(s) I come up with; I think I understand it now. It really helps trading ideas with folks who have done such things before.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Well there may be little interest in this but Bob and Brian have been very helpful so this is to show the scene here regarding the fit of the coilover shocks to the Bebops floor-flender pan. I also chatted with Pete at the Bebops factory and he commented that the cutout/blister should be rectangular so I went ahead and started sawing. I am well aware of the need to measure and think carefully before sawing based on my own personal track record with unrecoverable errors but at my age my motto now is "just do it!". Anyway I had gone ahead and bought a fiberglass kit with cloth and resin thinking to make an inverted bowl as Brian suggested but actually the shape will have to be different so here is what I have so far. It turns out that if I ever want to replace the shocks in the future the long upper bolt has to be extracted 5 1/2" just to get it out. I found this out when I tried to turn the shock 180 degrees so the adjustment knob would be more accessible toward the middle of the car. In the picture you can see the knob in the "wrong" position where I would not have been able to adjust it. After removing the bolt and sawing out a notch for future removal, the knob now is on the inside of the coil where I can easily adjust it. I am thinking over the next step with the idea of glassing in a box of walls around the rectangular hole and leaving the top open for a metal plate to be screwed down so I will be able to replace the shocks at some future time. This plate and it's screws will be under the ends of the tank and while I may have to remove the deck lid to change shocks I don't want to have to take out the tank as well. Well it looks like we may have an ice storm tomorrow so we may lose power and/or freeze in the garage if I work on this soon but that gives me time to think it over. As far as "looks" go, both these boxed holes with covers will be hidden under the tank and the only concern is to keep water out to prevent moldy carpets in the rumble seat area. I may put some inner tube rubber gaskets under the plates to help seal out the water problem. Thanks to Bob and Brian for their help.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Why not just fab up an aluminum cover with welded corners and a lip on the bottom. Secure it to the floor with some 10-32 screws and nutserts??? Then it is easily removable for shock adjustments, etc.

Two words. Loaf pan.

Thanks Dave, I don't have easy access to a heliarc for Al welding so I could use mild steel for a box which is more easily welded OR what I will try first is to build up a wall-lip around the hole using pieces of the floor I cut out for the trans-shifter-brake holes and glass them in place and then try to lap over a piece of steel or aluminum with hold down screws and probably some sort of rubber or foam gasket. One thing not obvious is that the front part of the hole has to be accessable as well as the back so as to get off the large nut at the front and tap out the bolt with a drift. The front lip can't block access to the bolt or you won't be able to knock out the bolt (found that out too!) and yes I used a floor jack to take the vertical tension off the bolt. Actually kicking around ideas here on the Forum with other folks and thinking it over for a day or two will solve the problem. I don't have all the tools I should have for a total build, but over the years I have managed with a good vise and a few basic tools. If I grind off the gell coat around the edge of the hole (I do have a Mikuta grinder) I should be able to lay down a strip of glass cloth and one coat of resin to "glue" it together. At this point I am sure I am building the poorest excuse for a fabricated roadster on the Forum after seeing all the work by Brian, Henry Rifle and especially the beautiful work on C9's roadster, but I will just do the best I can and hope a decent paint job on the outside will cover a lot of imperfections on the inside.

Bob, I thought of the pans we used to get holding scrapple but now days it comes wrapped in plastic. You are right, a loaf pan would have that shape. I'll check it out!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don----fiberglass has to be one of the most versatile mediums in the world to work with. If all else fails, make the exact shape you need by folding, gluing, and taping rigid cardboard to get the shape you need. Fiberglass it with cloth and mat, let it harden for 3 days, then soak it in water for 24 hours and scrape the cardboard out.

Thanks Brian, that is sort of where I am heading. Today I found three types of loaf pans at Wal Mart but only the large 12" aluminum foil pans are large enough ( two for $0.97). My plan now is to use these pans with some trimming (they are too deep) and when the shape is OK I will put a coat of resin on the inside and a single layer of glass cloth on the outside soaked with resin followed by another coat of resin on the outside and when it hardens I will trim it and paint it black (as usual). That way there will be the rather wrinkled aluminum with fiberglass on the outside and resin on the inside and I will leave the aluminum trapped in the resin sandwich. Overall this may take a week or more allowing for curing time but I will take a picture when they are finished. Thanks all.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Don, are you going to 'glass them into the floor or make them removable??? JMO, but having "been there, done that" I would prefer having access to the shock adjustment without having to crawl under the car......And, BTW, you are doing some really nice work on the car, should be a very nice one when you are finished!!!!

Thanks Dave, we will see how it turns out. Anyway so far I am using ALL the suggestions, the heavy aluminum foil makes an aluminum shell as you suggested, Bob's idea about the loaf pan was good and the final shape will be set with fiberglass as Brian suggested. At this point my worry is that the covers will not be as sturdy as the 1/4" fiberglass floor so maybe I will add some more layers of glass cloth. The "cap covers" will be removeable but you need to understand they will be underneath the gas tank in the rumble seat area. In the back they will be covered up by the bottom of the deck lid when it is open and in front there will be a plywood kick board at the bottom of the tank to cover up the fuel line and it will have some fabric on it like the inside sides of the rumble area. So to change the shocks the deck lid will have to be taken off and the kick panel removed to slide out the covers which can only be half the height of the gap under the tank. So you see by comparison if I can get my hand up under the back of the floorpan to adjust the shock-damper knob that will be easier. I already see I will have to mess around underneath for the disk/drum brake pressure balance which is under the left rear frame rail so the shock knobs are actually easier to get to. What I have not shown yet which is a slight innovation is that I have found that I can hang the battery box from the center of the frame in the rear because the Brookville frame has a U-shaped piece of channel BEHIND the pumpkin instead of over it as with the stock frame. The battery will be shielded by the 8" rear pumpkin and I plan to add a roll pan (fiberglass) to cover up most of the appearance of the battery, but again, to work on the battery I will have to get down on the floor and scramble around. I will say that I am hoping this counts as "exercise" at my age! I may not be able to show results for a week or so with all the holiday activities, but I want to get things done before the very cold weather. I have learned that if I put two of the circulating-oil-type heaters near where I am working conditions are not too bad.

I am attaching a picture of the front of the floorpan for folks who might be thinking about the Bebops body. The Bebops folks don't know what trans or handbrake you are going to use so they provide a flat floor with a fiberglass hump over it and you have to cut out the floor for your particular car. The white line on the floor is the outline of the hump that will come with the upper part of the body. I hope I made the access hole to the master cylinder big enough. As it is I am scratching my head to figure out how to make it easy to add brake fluid after I bolt in the seat but that worry has been postponed to when I install the Caravan seat.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Here is the picture of the front floor cutouts. The trans is a 700R4 and the shifter and handbrake are from Gennie. Regarding the possible rapid wear of the Gennie shifter gate, I have talked about this problem twice with the guy at Gennie and he is not worried about it and says he will replace it if/when it wears out but he expects it to last for years. I have put a glob of high-temp grease down in the shifter slot but who knows how long that will last until it melts and runs out. I think the main answer is that with an automatic trans the main shifting will just be with reverse, drive and park, so we shall see how long it lasts. The "MM" on the trans indicates the street-built 700R4 is from Monster Motorsport in Florida.

Don Shillady
Retred Scientist/teen rodder

Personally, I would have a "window" in your dome, perhaps an appropriately sized hole that you could pop a rubber, plastic or stainless cap/plug into it, that will allow you to push that top shock bolt through in the event you get a failed shock/spring.

Likewise for the battery, you should give serious consideration to mounting it so you can access it through the trunk rather than from underneath. Perhaps build a box with a flange as discussed earlier that will drop through the floor in the same location you're already thinking of (especially easy if you use the smaller sized driy cell battery). Put a nice lid on it, and cover it with carpet. If you use the car like many of us, you'll be putting a charger on it at least a couple times a year, likely more. Or when doing some maintenance or "improvements" you'll need to disconnect power occasionally. Find your opportunity for exercise elsewhere.;)

I have made many molds out of cardboard or plywood, covering the side to be glassed with scotch tape. The cured fiberglass will not stick to the tape so the mold pops out easily and you dont have to soak it to get the cardboard off.

Don---a funny but timely story. When i built my 27 glass roadster, it came with no floor. I glassed in a 3/4" plywood floor, and I had a cut-out similar to what you have. I didn't want the tranny cover to encroach on my floor space any more than it absolutely had to.------so-----first I waxed the tranny/bell housing with a good coat of Johnsons paste wax for floors and let it dry. Then I set the stop on my table saw for 3/8", and then I sawed up 2 or 3 broom handles into peices 3/8" long.
I took my trusty hot melt glue gun, and covered the entire top of the tranny with peices of sawed off broom handle. Then I got a small pail of pre-mixed plaster for repairing gypsum board walls, and trowelled the entire top of the tranny with this plaster, working it into all the spaces between the sections of broom handle.. (the lengths of broom handle ensured that it was a pretty uniform 3/8" thick coat everywhere).
After it had dried for a couple of days, I covered it all with a coat of paste wax.
I then layed down about 4 ot 5 coats of mat and resin, letting it overlap onto the floor about 3" all around the edge of the cut out hole.
3 days later I jacked up the car body, and knocked out the plaster and sections of broom handle with a small hammer (it practically fell out---didn't stick to the fiberglass nor the tranny because of the wax).
It made a freat floor, didn't intrude on my floorspace much, and gave adequate clearance between the floor and the tranny.

Thanks. the new comment by PJM is especially helpful because I want to make a close fitting bubble without bonding to the flooring. For Brian I note that the hump piece from the upper body part gets screwed to the floor and the Bobops folks suggested urethane glue as a sticky way to seal it and yet be able to remove it if there is ever any need for collision-induced repairs. Bob the main point is that with the tank in the trunk I have to put the battery underneath! Thanks for your suggestions.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

This an old thread on a small topic but this problem has taken me over two months of messing around and thinking, although cold weather has held me back too. Anyway I tried cutting down some loaf pans, I cut up a spare piece of floor pan sent to me by Bebops, I planned several options of 6" wide fiberglass cloth and resin but they all seemed clunky to me and then I happened on some plastic spoon trays 9.25"x3.75"x2" in a TARGET homeware department and amazingly they accidently just fit the holes I had cut in the floor. They have a 1/4" lip all around the edge so I cut some sheet steel to make hold down collars and cut out some inner tube rubber with the crown of the tube to fit over the top of the shock and bolted down. The key thing is that I need to be able to uncover the top shock bolt without taking out the gas tank later on so the caps have to be low to slide out under the tank. As shown here the tank is not mounted just sitting in position. The plastic is really thick red stuff but on a day when the temp got over 60 F I sprayed everything black. On the right you see one of the covers in place before I drilled holes for four 1/4" capscrews to hold it down and on the left you see the inner tube rubber, the black sheet metal hold down and the painted spoon tray upside down. The rubber will hopefully keep water out of the rumbel seat area??? So the rubber goes down first, then the inverted spoon tray and then the metal collar hold down. The inner tube was cut so some of the crown in the tube fits over the top of the coilover. This is still not pretty, but more in line with my limited talents and will be totally unseen once the rumble-seat-tank is upholstered with a thin mat and side panels in the seat area along the quarter panels. I was pleased to have the full length floor pan to keep water out but now I have to hope the inner tube rubber will keep the rug in the rumble seat floor dry.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

Lookin good Don. Many of the real brain ticklers on a hotrod aren't even visible when the car is completely assembled. I knew that you would find a good solution, and it looks like you did. Keep up te good work----Brian