tHERE WAS'T ONE! you see "I do that for my own amusement", But, since you brought it up & I have made this post we might as well talk about it. I use a plasma cutter, & sand Blaster! Wha'ch-a got?
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tHERE WAS'T ONE! you see "I do that for my own amusement", But, since you brought it up & I have made this post we might as well talk about it. I use a plasma cutter, & sand Blaster! Wha'ch-a got?
I'd like to cut things out, but the prob there is you gotta put something back. In most cases. Floors are handy to have at times - i mean, the rug gets wet and smells without them ya know.
I have tried many things, and the most recent chemical is POR-15. Seems like a miracle item. I will be giving it a test on my daily driver 93 taurus, and the Camaro project will be, well, 50% POR by the time we are done.
One recomendation was to use fiberglas cloth and POR in stead of resin. Hmmm...
I don't suppose you get much rust in OK?
for Your own amusement, Right. They salt everything here, When it gets a little cold. ....I try to blast as much as I can, and I was going to try the por-15 soon, works hu? There used-to-be some stuff from 3-m I'm trying to find , you would wipe it on ( like in-side the door skins) where-ever you couldn't reach. I think it was some kind of acid. Can't remember?:CRY:
STREETS will get something in on you!.....................Glad your back, STREETS.:D
Krylon makes a chemical in a rattle can, not too bad. Rustoleum too, and there was avalible in a skim milk like liquid (white and THIN. years ago a friend had a gallon milk jug of stuff that he got form an airplane mechanic. We painted it on most sides of swiss cheased floor in a 60 ford sunliner, one that would nearly move in the breeze, and it turned the rust black, and in about an hour you could STAND on that floor! I have been searching for that chemical ever since....
POR can be sprayed, but it has very very specific handling instructions. It also goes a LONG way.
I made the mistake of putting it on the outside lower part of my doors, and now i have to sand it or fill the edges where it meets the untreated metal...can't paint over the ridge...live and learn!
" a skim milk like liquid " Thats what this was like & it turned it black, YA...... but I can't for the life of me, remember what it was called? It's probably outlawed, now & i'm pretty sure it was made by 3-M.:CRY:
Rustoleum was/is called EXTEND
The 3M product might have been Rust Avenger...found that on the worldwode 3M site, but cannot find anymore about it.
I hate rust.
I want the paint they paint railroad cars and bridges with.
I use Citric acid, Phosphoric acid or baking soda. I write about them in a thread earlier but can't find it.
If you 'paint' over with the phosphoric acid after sand blasting, the rust will turn black and it will stop the rusting process.
:)
Jani
Hay....Janiluo.....whats the mixture ,where do I get it, "Don't have to squeeze a-bunch of oranges do I ,....I mean,......I will, if it works" But, I would rather buy it somewhere. I'm sure all of us "pups" would like to know.:D When you got the time........................ For now I'm gon'a go rub some orange peel on My buick,the 49 ,& my work truck. I'll probably need to plant a tree for the first 2.:(
I use POR-15 on my frame and a chassis parts. If flows so well, even painted on with a brush it glosses up like it was sprayed on. It does have some nasty attributes, so I would rather brush it than spray it. Either way, make sure you use resporator and keep area well ventilated.
I will also be using the POR-15 inside the car on the floorboards with faberglass matt to give the whole car more rigidity. It also improves sound deadening and the POR and fiberglass matt give a nice texture finish. I also use the POR and fiberglass matt to seal and cover wooden speaker boxes in the body panels. Also one behind the rear seat for a sub-woofer. Sealed wood enclosures put out some great sound. The POR also flowes through the fiberglass matt much better than resin does.
POR also has Metal Ready which is an acid base rust remover and etching agent. Makes the POR-15 bond very well. They also carry Marine Clean for final prep before painting.
I find the POR-15 to be tougher than powder coating
Dean
Well...
1)
For the doors and sheetmetal parts I use Citric acid (E330 - Look the label in the soda can!) 25 hours at least 25 degrees Celsius and the rust is gone.
Even from inside the doors where you cannot sandblast.
Mixture:
about 1000 Liter water and
25kg citric acid powder
(about €40-50/25kg bag here in Finland)
You should ask companies that sells Industrial chemicals. In the pharmacy, chemist, drugstore or whatevery you call it there in the states, it will cost more.
2)
For the parts that are too big to dip in the barrel, I sandblast them and then 'paint' them with phosphoric acid using a paint brush AND GOGGLES!!!
I prush it on and wait until it dryes (1-2 days) and then llittle sanding and primer coat.
The phosphoric acid is very toxic and the process will create hydrogen so I use it outside and not inside the garage.
Mixture:
I put 2 deciliter water and 1 deciliter phosphoric acid (liquid) in a glass bottle.
I'm sorry about Euros Liters and Celsius but I hope you can translate them.
Maybe you have diffrent names in the cemicals too.
Jani
:D
Iiii thinkkkkk I,m learning more on this post then I thougt I would. ( Sorry, My hands had orange juice on them) :LOL: thanks for the info Jani. ;) I'm gon'a use that. weeg You really think that por-15 is tougher than a good powder coat, thats good! thats what I want to hear, "the stuff I can do at home is better". Now if I could just "reCHROME-aT-HOME" :whacked: How-bout some stuff called "metal-all"?? ? I've never used it but, heard people talk about it " as a skim coat" In bad spots insted of BONd-O , or Lead ,4 A NICE finish? Anybody ever heard of this stuff?
There are several of these metal type bondos you refer to :
All-Metal, Metal-to-Metal & Alumalead.
I havent used them in years .Once it kicks (drying Process) it sands like a piece of granite.
The lite weight fillers used today are way better then years ago,
so dont be afraid of BONDO as it has had a bad rep. Mostly from
not knowing how to mix & use it correctly.
SprayTech
If your refering to the new 2 part glazing putties , yes I'm a firm believer in them.
I use it quite often(PPG's brand techniglaze) when my body men cant seem to get pin holes out of thier bondo, but I use it after I have shot 3-4 coats of PPG's NCP-271 corrosion resistant primer.
It is also recommended to use over properly sanded paint also, for minor imperfections. Then primed of course :D
SprayTech
Screamer,
That "skim milk" lookin stuff is still available. It's called rust converter and, depending on what part of the country you're in, different brands are available. Here in Florida we get "One Step" or "Extend". Out in the western area of the country I'm told there is one called "Fer-Tan". There may be (and probably are) others with other names. I have used "One Step" many times and had good results.
The way they work is they cause a chemical reaction to take place in the rust. Tannic acid and other chemicals cause the Iron-oxide (rust) to be converted into Iron-phosphate. Iron-phosphate is an inert compound that is unaffected by moisture; hence, the rust is stopped in its tracks.
If you are using any of these products DO NOT spray them. They will ruin your spray equipment and the mist will damage your lungs. Apply it with a brush or sponge and wear rubber gloves because it will turn your skin purple.
It brushes on white, but turns purple-black when dry. If the rust is heavy it helps to wet it (!) first so the rust converter will soak all the way in. After 24 hours you can apply body filler or primer directly over it.
20 years ago i used Bondo, it worked, but you could get Ditzler 999 filler in a gallon for less money (see auto paint suppliers) and it was much nicer to work with.
Currently using bondo as i have not much to fix and as SprayTech says, things are better these days.
Bought car from a friend's parents, they paid to have a rusty front door fixed at a reputable shop (rusty and holes). It was bubbling, so i took it apart to fix...it was NEWSPAPER (the sunday comics as a matter of fact) bondo'd in place, bondo'd over, sanded and painted. Even when i cheat, I can do better!! (duct tape, spray foam, roof cement is my favorite!)
How do you get BondO- to stick 2 lead?**)
sand the lead? wipe the lead with ...laquer thinner, or other solvent? Bondo sticks to most everything...
Two part glazing putty? Is it better, and in what way, than the one part red stuff i am used to?
While you can get polyester filler to stick to lead you do run the risk of failure down the road. The lead filler often contains acid that can migrate to the surface and dislodge the filler. You may have seen an old car where the paint is intact on the steel surfaces but has "flaked" off on the lead filler. Same problem. You'd be better off grinding out the lead and using filler from steel on up if you plan to keep the rig long term. I know, sounds like heresy doesn't it?
screamer,
If the stuff I think you are using is a lacquer base spot putty.
It will in time shrink and show every where you put it under primer & paint .
The 2 part glazing putty , doesnt shrink or swell and is the way to go these days for the final top coat of your bondo repair, its a finer filler & is sanded with 180 grit or finer, this way it takes less primer to get your panels straight.
SprayTech
SprayTech,
Now i gotta go to the store AGAIN.
I am filling in little niks, dings, over putty repairs, etc. This car has several coats of paint, and a nick to steel is pretty damned deep at this point!
Also, i did some resut 'repair' with POR and, well, it seems THICK now that it is dry and i have to feather that edge in ...fortuenately it is low on teh doors and they kick in pretty far so perfection is not totally necessary, but i can't leave it alone and i doubt sanding the POR will work.
Got a brand name? Local stores here carry PPG products mostly.
I assume mix it wither like epoxy (50/50) or bondo/tiger hair (a little hardner goes a long way).
I have seen/expereinced the shrinkage already...add, sand, add, sand, add, sand, add so i KNOW there is too much, and still need more...
Screamer,
The product i am refering to is a PPG product called TechniGlaze
The # is DF 715 it comes in a small can & you mix it like bondo, and yes a little hardner goes a long ways.
Good luck sanding that por 15 , once cured it sands lika a rock .......LOL
Por-15 has a primer that you can use first & can be sanded then Por-15 black can be put over it .
Their web site is full of the products they make: http://www.por15.com/
Ah ! But to strive for perfection is the FUN part , and the extra elbo grease needed isnt a waste of time .
On a side note about bondo over led is just like Bob said, bondo never stuck to lead. But my suggestion to remove the lead out of the seam is to get a fire wrench ( gas torch set) with a low heat & melt it all out, or use a small propane blow torch that you use for sweating copper joints to melt it .
The lead now days that you get isnt like the stuff of old as the chemical make up of the lead sticks have changed , I learned how to make it work years ago, and it takes a few tools to to make it easier .
Torch set , lead , lead paddels( of different shapes& sizes), the butter for the paddels to keep lead from sticking to paddels, tinning solution, vixen files (in flat & curved styles).
It also takes some talent to get the heat just right to melt the lead to the panel then smooth with the paddel , all the while kepping a torch going to keep it at the right viscosity to spread.
I learned form a guy that made Darrell Starbird famous, His name was Dave Stucky. this is the guy that made the Lil' Coffin car with that cantelever roof that Darrel said he built.
SprayTech
Here's the car I speak of & a site to look over:
http://members.aol.com/styrenearc/pr...in/coffin.html
HEY!
I have this car!
It says Hot Wheels on it!