Body cutting.

Hello,

My son slid the left rear corner of my 95 T-Bird into a rock.. :CRY:

It is damage to the very corner about the size of a shoe box but included the 2 tail lights and the bumper. Trunk lid is unscathed.

So as part of the "lessons of life" I had him start thru the body-shop quote death march.

Well the first shop, relatively reputable, gave the quote $3,202. ..... :CRY: :CRY:

So step two; call all the junk yards.

Step three go to a likely junk yard. Bingo! We got both taillights the outer bumper, the styrofoam, the inner bumper beam, and the entire rear corner (which we sawed off the junk yard car)for $250. BOO-YAH!

So now the real work begins.

We intend to saw off the existing damage and then TIG weld in our new piece. (Should be quite the adventure:D)

So what is the best tool for carving out the damage?

I don't want to spend too much. For example I don't want to drop 2 grand on a plasma cutter but I don't mind a couple of hundred since I'm not giving $3K to the body shop.

Do I need a die grinder with some sort of cutting wheel?
Will a Dremel tool work?
Are there sheet metal tools that won't distort the heck out of the body?
Can I use a right-angle grinder with some sort of cutting blade?

What would you guys use if you had your druthers??

Sawzall, definetely a grinder. They also have small like air saws that look like a small ratchet. Home Depot and Lowes have a metal sheer which has like two prongs out the front that does the same for metal. But yes those will be good and get you a 4-5 inch die grinder. When grinding AND welding DO NOT welding and grind in the same area for a long time. Weld a bead at about two inches and then move to the other side of the work. When you lay that bead down, get you a body hammer and dolly and hit that weld while it is hot. Just practice some before doing this if you are new at it. It's really not as hard as it seems, just takes a little practice and also there is no way to screw it up, if you mess up it can be fixed. If you plan to paint it yourself then I would recommend a plain 100-150 dollar gun and you can touch up that panel yourself. Either that or I guess you can pay someone to paint it.
Materials:
1.) Die Grinder (4 inch or so)
2.) Body hammer and dolly (flat ones)
3.) Sawzall
4.) Metal air sheer.

That is just some of the things that you should use and it will help you out. Other than that it is pretty straight forward. Good luck and keep us updated!

Thanks FMXhell.

Are you talking die grinder for cutting or just grinding?

And you say wack the hot weld... Specifically why?
(to lower the bead?)

Shear?
http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2856
http://www.tylertool.com/mi6818gash.html
http://www.autotoolmart.com/cgi-bin/...56&p_catid=308

Or?

or?

Have you used composition blades on car bodies?

I tell you what I would do. Since I am on a limited budget, I have learned to work well with a regular ol' grinder with a cutting wheel. Granted a die grinder would be nice, but I don't have the money for one right now. Anywhoo, a plus to that is, 10secs and you have changed from a cutter to a grinder to grind down them welds. Also, if you don't already have a air compressor, it saves you that much, just requires a little more time and effort.

Sorry I am so late here, for some reason a few months ago I stopped getting email notifications in my email unless I go and press subscribe twice, normally if I respond to a thread it subscribes by itself. But yeah get that SECOND one there in the picture if it's a bigger panel. It is good. The first one is good for more rounded out panels. So if your panel has a bit of shapes, etc then the first one is good, if it's more flat then the second will do. For the die grinder, look for a plain electric one with a cutoff (flat disk) wheel. No hard rock like grinder thing, just a cutoff wheel.

Okay...

I couldn't actually purchase any of the "power" tools we discussed in my town. No one had any in stock... or so they lied. As I walked thru OSH there was the PorterCable shear that the manager told me they didn't have on the phone. :mad:

But taking RJ & CJ's advise I picked up 3 cut off blades, ($1.99 a piece) for my 4 inch right-angle grinder. That worked quite well!!!
The cut-off wheels last a shockingly short time. 16 linear inches of cut. Good thing they're cheap!

It caused very little local disturbance to the uncut adjacent metal. I'm most pleased!!

The hardest part was actually removing the second inner bracing and box structure from the "new" chunk we got from the junkyard without messing up the pristine outer skin. There were 26 spot welds to negotiate.

So today we are going to finish trimming up the new piece to the body and welding it on everywhere. This is going to leave an 18 inch weld line up the side of the quarter panel.

I presume the bead will stick out a little and will need to be hammered in a bit. Once done with this I guess we will need to fair everything with bondo?

I have never used bondo before... the can has almost no useful information on it. What tips can you guys offer on the subject, keeping in mind what specifically I'm bondo-ing..

First, there are several choices in the product you use. Bondo brand filler is terrible to work with, but is cheap. I would recommend spending a little more (about 25-35 dollars) for a gallon of a premium lightweight filler. Evercoat makes several different fillers, i would recomend their rage line. It spreads much nicer than bondo brand and gets less pinholes, which will dramatically reduce your sanding time. As for the actual application, first prep the area that you will be applying the filler to with a minimum of 80 grit, you could even use 50 or 36 grit. This coarse scratch will ensure that you get a strong adhesion of the bondo to your panel so it doesn't chip off down the road. The best time to actually begin sanding is just as the filler (bondo) is hardening, usually just a few minutes after applying it, depending on how much hardener you used. You don't want it to be clogging up the paper, but it is much easier to work with when fresh. Use 36 grit at first to shape the area, then 80, 150, 280. Once you have the shape how you want it and it is smooth, its ready to prime. Hope this helps a little, if you have any more specific questions just send me a message and i would be more than happy to give you some pointers.

Eric

When you weld it back togather use the 2" rule(a spot weld every two inches) to advoid as much warping as possible, repeat until all welded up - then dolly & grind- check for holes- weld those & grind.
I use 1" of hardner to the baseball size dollop of filler for the skim work. Start at least 6" before your work area, and with the med. spreader pull your filler across the repaired spot to 6" past. Allowing your hand to "float" over the repaired area low spots only to maintain the outer body lines. You will only have about 3 min.'s to work this mix so only mix and work what you can pull within that time. The filler will start to set-up by first turning into little knots within itself- kinda like cottage cheese look- if it does then stop trying to dress it, it's done for spreading.
Don't rush this..it's easier to spread more after you sand this then to try & sand off a big mess.
Repeat as needed- sanding between coats...it's that simple.

They are correct. Like I said above, don't weld in the same spot, 2 inches only. With the bondo I use a golf ball sized thing of bondo and a pinch of hardener the size of the tip of your pinky finger to that first joint in it right behind the finger nail. Same with the baseball size hambiskit said about. Evercoat makes a bondo called Liteweight. It is almost as good as Rage filler and cheaper on the price a bit but works EXCELLENT! First put your bondo down, let it dry some and when it is almost dry but still a bit soft then you can use a cheese grater. If you don't have one of these (Not an actual cheese grater, a body tool one) then you can let the bondo dry up for a little bit and come back over it with 80 grit. Reason for 80 grit is to CUT the bondo down, anything with less grit wont cut down, it will smooth it and leaving the bondo all wavy. After 80 I use 160 or 240. Anywhere in there is fine to smooth it down. A lot of people use different things. I learned how to do a lot of this kind of thing from SprayTech here on the boards. After the 240 you can do your 400 grit and lay your primer or whatever you plan to do. Get yourself a quart of Evercoat metal glaze. It is like bondo and really thin and watery but it fills in pin holes and SMALL imperfections. Not completely needed but it's only 19 bucks so worth it. Make sure you use the correct amount of hardener in this stuff or else it stays a bit mushy or soft. The bottle will tell you how much to use. After all that sanding and bondo is done then get you some wax and grease remover and prime and paint that thing!!! :D
Good luck!

Something that I didn't see anybody mention, maybe because I'm all wet, but I think that when you start welding on the car, you need to disconnect the battery to keep from frying your electronics; am I right? Anybody?

Yes sir, you sure need to! NEVER weld on your vehicle without doing that.

Kcess
I see you are a little ways away from me in Santa Cruz. I do some work down in that area time to time mainly San jose area. If you need some one to plasma cut the damaged area let me know. Check out my web sight www.mrrpmwelding.net and you can see some of my work. I may be able to help you out. Don't go out and purchase tools if you are going to use them only one time

Robert

Dang, guys some great tips! I have read and re-read them!

hmmm I have already done 3 hrs of welding... Without the battery disconnected... Hope my Power train controller isn't fried... it cost me 350 last time I replaced the tranny. :(

The welding is going horrendously slowly. I will probably get the wavys outta this. It looks like crap! I haven't done a lot of vertical stuff before. I didn't mention it but the gap I'm trying to weld is a little over 1/4" wide. I finally resorted to tacking in several 1/8" rods then welding them together and to the body panel.

We also made the mistake of trying to tig two panels together while the backs of the panels had residue fiberglass and adhesive.. Ugh! Fire, stench, weld blowout....

You guys are saying sand... How exactly do you mean? Block of wood? 4" belt sander? I have an air powered orbital sander?

Okay here are some pictures say anything you want.. I can take it.
:rolleyes:

Keep in mind this is my first and my philosophy is, "just get it done but learn while you do it".

Oh and MR.RPM thanks much for the offer! I would've taken you up on the offer (4shore) if I hadn't already passed that point. Thanks again.

next

3

http://i1.tinypic.com/minexd.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/mineyx.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/minf2o.jpg

The welding is done.

I ground down most of the weld. I have some warpage, all of it inward. Over two areas, one 4 inches long and another 2 inches long the bead and adjacent areas are about 1/4" below grade as it were...

Do I try to pull this out with the risk of maybe going above grade?

Or do I just fill it with bondo?

I have been told I need to drill holes for "thick" bondo to grab like plaster board. Is 1/4" thick? Are holes suggested?

Thanks again for your comments.

It's best to ping and ding the seams as near to the correct contour as possible before putting any filler on. For this you should use a body hammer (hammers) and dowell. If the metal becomes "oil canned" a shrinking hammer or the old heat and ping method will make if flat and firm again. Before you apply any filler, the area where the filler will be has to be stripped of paint and about a 36 grit finish to get good adhesion of the filler to the metal. Evercoat makes a product called "Metal to Metal", recomend using a 2" wide layer of it over all the welded areas. Sand it with 80 grit when it's dry, then start with a good quality lightweight filler.

This body panel is a double panel I do not have access to the rear of it. This means to pull the quarter inch out I have to drill and slide hammer.... Is that what I need to do? Do I then weld the drilled holes?

What do I run the sandpaper with?

I think you should, an inch is a little bit much for filler. I use sanding blocks, have 3 different lengths of them. The longer the sanding board you use, the less likely you are to leave highs and lows in the surface. I usually hit the filler with 36 grit first to knock down the high spots, then 80 grit. Might want to check with an auto body supply store, they can show you all the different kinds of sanding blocks. If you don't have an body shop supply store nearby, then a parts store that handles body shop supplies should be able to help you out.