Printable View
thought i'd better get as much info as possible before i dive into sumpin' i've never even thought of doing in my life. that is swapping a different engine than what came out. i wanna put an olds 350 in place of the anemic 258 thats in my '79 amc(i hear the giggles)spirit. i'm totally without a clue if it can even be done. where do i start?
I guess you already have the 350? If not, jump up to a 455, as it is physically very close, and HP is much better.
To answer your question, this should be fairly straight forward, because the AMC's had big engine rooms. You will want to set both engines side by side, and see where the differences are. You are looking for length, width, height, oil pan configuration (will the sump clear your suspension, etc) Starter location, exhaust clearance, etc.
You might want to slide the Olds engine and trans down into place and just start eyeballing where the problems are. You may have to shift the engine one way or the other to get it to clear stuff, and you may have to move some of the underhood components around to get it in there.
Any engine will fit in any car, but it it just a matter of how much work you need to do to make that happen, and if it is practical when done.
You might also consider one of the factory 401's or others. They are no slouch, and should drop in easier.
No way to give you every nut and bolt answer on this one, it is just trial and error, and you will be fabricating every bracket, as none are available commercially, I.m sure.
HEAT UP THE TORCH>:) :) :)
Don
PS: Another factor in this scenario is what are you capable of doing. Swapping an engine takes a fair amount of work and skill, and tools. You are going to need an engine hoist, welding equipment, hand tools, maybe torches, and a place to spread this stuff out for an extended period of time.
You will also need a driveline fabricator to do your new driveshaft, and a muffler shop to do the exhaust when done.
It isn't a job for the timid, but can be done.
that sounds like really sound advice for this newby. i am a pro fabricater, so making stuff should,nt be much of a stretch. ya, i picked up a fresh 350 in a 79 station wgn. cheap. that,s what got my interest piqued. without a real garage, it,s going to be one of those "shadetree" projects, so i,m going to have to be real careful to keep things clean
Good. I wasn't trying to question your skills, but on these forums people of all experience levels participate, so I just wasn't sure of what you were capable of doing. Sounds like you have that part of it covered.
The 350 Olds is an overlooked engine, in my opinion. Everybody goes for the 350 Chevy, for obvious reasons (cost, avail of parts, etc) But you can't kill one of these things, and there is speed stuff on Ebay all the time for them, and it goes pretty reasonably.
Yea, just yank out the old one, and see how they compare. Things like tie rods, steering boxes, crossmembers, etc are the biggies to watch out for.
I essentially did the same deal when I swapped the 5.0 Mustang into my Jeep Pickup. I had the Jeep with a blown 4 liter 6, and I had a good running 5.0 Mustang engine and trans out of a wreck, so I put the two together. In hindsight, a 350 Chevy would have fit better, because the 302 is longer and has sumps in the way, but I am a Ford man, and already had the engine.
You may get a surprise and it may slide right in there with very little interferance. Be sure to save every piece off of the Olds wagon, because you can possibly use them in the swap.
Take your Olds driveshaft and the AMC driveshaft to a driveline guy, and have him wed the two. He will tell you how to measure ( I've done it a zillion times, and still got it wrong on the Jeep swap...........had to have it recut)
You will have a nice little sleeper there when you get done.
Don
i appreciate your time and advice. another concern, and it,s probably a given that i would be replacing the mopar auto with the 350 turbo now behind the 350,how about physical size between the two trannys?ooh, my amc shifter is on the console, how about using my shifter? the olds is on the column. i,m guessing the olds trans crossmember will be one of those transplant fab projects. ya i,ve got a million questions
You won't know any of these answers until you lay the two side by side, and then actually slide the engine down into the hole for the first time.
In this swap, you are like a Christopher Columbus, I bet no one in history has done this exact car/engine swap. (isn't that enough incentive to do it alone???):)
You will meet and have to solve a multitude of small and maybe not so small challanges along the way, but you just have to take each one and address it.
Shifter may or may not work, but a floor shift conversion would fix that.
My Jeep/5.0 radiator gave me fits. The jeep one is like 12 inches high X 28 inches long, to clear a big steerin box. I finally had to offset an aluminum mustang race radiator and make it fit. Not perfect, but it is ok.
If you start getting stuck during the swap, just post. Someone on here will be able to offer some suggestions.
Good luck Columbus.:) :) :)
Don
I just reread your post, and see that your AMC shifter is on the console. If so, it probably uses a cable from the shifter to the trans arm. My Jeep is in the same family, and that is how it is. If so, just make a mounting bracket on the trans for the cable, after you work out the proper geometry and throw, and hook it up to the new trans. I had to make a new arm for the trans, and work out the proper throw, but it works like factory now, and I have the benefit of the neutral safety switch still being in place on the shifter.
your jeep project sounds like a real kickbutt machine. now that you've had a myriad of problems to overcome, it seems to have given you more pride in your accomplishment than if you had tried something mundane like another 32 roadster--seen one, youv'e seen 'em all. the idea of the swap started last year when i came into possesion of an olds 403. after reading up on that motor, i decided i didn't want to deal with any problems with webbed blocks and other issues so i waited for the opportunity to pick up a 350 olds. i understand the olds 350 has some advantages over the chev, notably a shorter stroke and bigger bore, which i've always understood to mean quicker revs again, thanks for your expertise, i'll keep posting updates as things progress, and ya, i'll be doing the swap alone, my friends laugh at me anyway just for driving an amc
AMC's are actually really good, solid cars. We bought a '74 Hornet for my one Son because he turned 16 before his '65 Olds convertible was finished, and he needed something to drive. It was a pristine, one owner (older man) 4 door wagon, and we paid $ 600.00 for it at an auction. No one wanted it because of being an AMC.
He drove that car for 2 years, and when his Olds was done, he gave the Hornet to me. I used it for about 4 years, with very few problems. People at work would laugh at me too, but I really could care less. My daily drivers are just point A to point B vehicles, and so ego doesn't enter into it.
I finally sold it ( can't remember why) and for years we would see it still running around. You couldn't kill that 232 engine.
The Jeep truck isn't a screamer, but it runs better than the average Jeep. It has about 200,000 miles on the engine now, so it is getting tired. Time for a fresh engine/trans. It confuses people, because I took all the Jeep emblems off of it, and replaced them with Ford and 5.0 emblems. Just the tailgate says Jeep. People think I put a Ford cab on a Jeep truck.
Take pictures as you go along, it will be cool for the rest of us to see this swap come together.
Don
playing with people's heads is one of my favorite things. one of the percs of this little joke i'm gonna do. people out of the "loop"think my spirit's a pinto anyway. i can hardly wait to smoke some of these jokers with a sleeper. (another one of my dreams). gotta go. takig my wife to the local wlly world which is what my spirit's used for. i may miss the 25 mpg but damn, it's gonna be fun to drive. thanks don, see ya
Hey Rud, I found this picture on Ebay, and it is of a '79 Spirit engine room.
If this is like yours, I see very little that will be in the way of the Olds going in there. The crossmember is small, and the steering box is forward of where the starter will lay.
Should be pretty straight forward. I guess they put some 401's in these, so the 350 should have no problem.
Don
seeing that caverous empty hole stirs the memory of 3 years ago when i pulled the 258 out, refreshed it, and reinstalled it.the car was actually given to me because of a knocking rod. at the time, i also had a 1976 hornet with the same engine, but it smoked a bit, so i ported the 79 head, put it on the 76 block and created a "frankenstein" that i've put about 35k on. it has been mostdependable in response to denny w- you've reminded me of discussions i've had with a local drag racer who raced a number of years with an american running a 390 he claimed only used a mild cam and headers and ran in the 12's,then he added nitrous and dropped into the low 10's. he quipped once that they laughed at him as he came to the line, -once. i have a picture of that car with the front wheels 2 feet off the ground at launch. he also said that any 6 or v8 will bolt right in as long as it's amc. i think my 350 is going to slip right in with only odds ands ends to wrangle with, as you suggested
being computer illiterate does have it's drawbacks.i hope my pictures end up where i think they should. they are pictures of my spirit race car i raced for several years as a mini stock (4 cyl) the other photo is of my spirit just a week after painting.
sorry. after numerous tries, i'm gonna have to get help from my 12 year old on how to make this thing work.