how hard on a scale of 1-10 is putting in one of these cages?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2D3130&FROM=MG
thanks guys
steve
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how hard on a scale of 1-10 is putting in one of these cages?
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2D3130&FROM=MG
thanks guys
steve
We've got one sitting on the garage floor, ready to install in my one Son's Capri, and it is essentially just a bunch of tubing and some flat floor plates. Not a lot came in the way of instructions, so you have to pretty much engineer each one to the car you are doing.
There are some very specific regulations about how to mount them (so far from the drivers head, the back bar has to intersect so far down, the door brace has to go so far between the drivers shoulder and floor, etc. And the welding has to be first rate. They also specify that if you have a subframed car you can mount to the body, but on a full framed car you have to go right to the frame.
We are still researching what we need to do to make his legal, and I'll bet Techinspector can quote us chapter and verse on what you need to do.
By the way, these are a great value. We have a tubing bender, so initially we thought we would just buy the correct tubing and bend up our own. After doing the math, we would have had more money in just raw tubing than they get for the prebent setup.
Don
oh yeah man im always pricin raw materials lol. hopefully tech will hop in on this one that guys unreal. and i know the weld cant be dressed up but say i mess it up while im installing it can i just grind the weld off and re do it?
The bar shown is for a unibody car with subframe connectors. The bar for a frame/body car is different. Which do you have?
To answer your question, it would probably run a 5 to 7 on the difficulty scale. It takes a lot of time to fit the bars properly. Also, if you are not an expert welder, fit the bars up and tack them in place, then hire a pro to come over and weld them up for you. It'll be the cheapest money you ever spent.
One more thing, that is a picture of a roll bar, not a roll cage.
Roll bar install.....
http://streetmachinesoftablerock.com...opic.php?t=217
my 84s a unibody. would you happen to know what exact type of cage i will need to run high 10s?
and are the subframe connectors required?
haha ok scratch the 10's. im not looking to go faster than 11.50
With an unaltered floor and firewall, you can go 10-flat with a 5 or 6-point roll bar. If you're gonna start thrashin' on the car, you will want to install subframe connectors and an 8-point roll bar at the minimum. The 8-point system pictured above at Summit would be perfect for your car. The two bars that run down from the crossbar/sidebar intersection toward the center of the car are the bars that weld to the subframe connectors.Quote:
Originally Posted by muteboy49
ok 2 things. w/o subframe connectors the car will twist like a wetnoodle with a 10 second motor right? and how hard are subframe connectors to weld in?
Connectors aren't that bad. It's no different than any other car-crafting project. Take your time, measure twice and cut once.
I think anyone who installs a bar without connectors in a unibody car is kidding himself.
thank you sir! will installing ladder bars affect how i put the cage in?
Probably not. The terminus for the rear bars in a unibody car is on the sheet metal of the trunk floor. 6" x 6" x 1/8" steel plates are welded to the floor, then the ends of the diagonal braces are welded to the plates.
ok one more question what about these kits,
http://www.detroitspeedshops.com/cgi...&page=category
Hmmm....Quote:
Originally Posted by muteboy49
Where's the main hoop?
Summit shows it and says in the description that it is included.
ech nevermind its sold seperately and all together its more than the summit kit.lol
thanks for all your help tech i appreciate you helpin me out this early in the mornin
Aww heck, you're welcome. It's just a little after 10 PM in Phoenix.
NHRA.COM or NHRASportCompact.COM has drawings along with their rules. They set the standards, most of the other racing sanctions just copy the NHRA rules on safety items. You also need to take a look at roll bar padding, seat mounting, seat belt mounting and window net mounting rules. No matter what the actual ET they will inspect your car for the higher standard if you have a cage in it. For example, you will need a window net with a cage.
ahhh you lucky man livin out west racing all year right? haha man i dont even know that the track out here can hold yet. doesnt matter to me im putting the SF connectors and cage in a few months then i get to mess with my motor and trans all winter for next summer. but i do get tired of seeing stock vettes and cobras run...
"For example, you will need a window net with a cage."
John, this is not necessarily true. You can have a cage in any car, no matter if it runs 25 second et's, but a net is not required until the cage is mandatory....10.99 with an altered floor (in excess of 4 square feet) or altered firewall (in excess of 1 square foot) and 9.99 with an unaltered floor and firewall.
at milan i believe anything under a 11.49 requires a window net
We are going to need to get the terminology correct.....what you are considering installing is an 8-point roll bar, not a cage. A cage has another main hoop that installs at the windshield and halo bars that connect the hoops along the roof of the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by muteboy49
yeah but for some reason everyone around here calls it a cage lol.
ok ill be putting in the SF connectors and rollbar in a few months:LOL:
If they are requiring that, then they should be ashamed of themselves. It is not in the rulebook.Quote:
Originally Posted by muteboy49
hmm i could be wrong. im almost positive thats what the track rules are though
As far as mounting and padding, you must have missed my link to the paper I wrote on roll bar installation. I wrote it for a 5-point bar, but all you have to do is add a door bar on the passenger side and subframe connector bars on each side and you have an 8-point roll bar.....Quote:
Originally Posted by John Palmer
http://streetmachinesoftablerock.com...opic.php?t=217
Richard, I'm sure you are correct, but it's the local tech inspector(s) we all have to deal with at the events. We run a 11.90 Index VW which has run a quickest run of 11.11. Not only do the inspectors require a net in our chromoly caged car but they also request/require that we run with arm restaints since we have a 1960 Bug with an original "cloth sunroof". Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate that they are not selling safety gear for profit, just trying to lookout for us to have racing fun and to do it safely. I think that racers sometimes don't understand the inspectors have a tough job.
yeah i agree im sure the inspectors at the track around here get hassled every time theyre open. or they get punched in the face however thats another story lol
"but it's the local tech inspector(s) we all have to deal with at the events."
Point well-taken John. Thanks.
oh yeah BTW punching a inspector in the face is not only stupider than crap but itll get you a 3 year banishment.... just throwin it out there ...:LOL:
and no it wasnt me
muteboy: We already did the subframe connectors in my kids Capri, and they are really easy. There are two styles, weld in and bolt in, we went for the weld in, because we just felt they had to be stronger by the nature of being welded in.
After we were done it is amazing how much they stiffen the unibody. When we jack up one corner of the front, the entire car lifts straight up now. Before, it would twist like a pretzel. We also welded in "battle boxes" to reinforce the control arm boxes. Fox Mustangs are notorious for tearing these loose when you start hammering them off the line, especially with HP and slicks. They were a real bear to install, to get them right, and do the welding up in that little hole, upside down. I didn't do it, my kid did, but he was cussing the whole time.
As for the thing about making a second weld if you screw up the first one on the roll bar, tech can answer that better, but I think they just want to see an unground weld, so you could probably do that. But like he said, have a pro welder do the final welds, not only will you get turned away if they are not right, but your very life depends on it.
A lot of people think mid 11's isn't quick.........it is, and lots of things can happen at those speeds'
Don
built correctly, a properly designed and installed roll cage will stiffen up the car and take an amazing amount of flex out of a demon like you describe--10 sec 1/4, wow!! give it lots of looking and thinking and you can do it
well im putting ladder bars in for the rear suspension. and yeah 11.50s are fast.
thanks guys!
im working on getting a pro to do the final welds on my cage i bought a IHRA rule book earlier and theyre picky
Yep, here's where compliance to the rules pays dividends in the tech line. Pay attention to the link I provided for you on the paper I wrote. You want to get the crossbar in correctly the first time (the bar your shoulder belts anchor to) and I have detailed that for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by muteboy49
Something the rest of you guys should know too.....when you pull into the tech line and have done an outstanding piece of work, the word gets around and the tech guys will be much friendlier to you when you show up the next time. They'll know that you are a guy who does things right, by the book and they'll appreciate you showing up to race.
In the past, when I've found a particularly nice car (I'm not talking about chrome and paint, I'm talking about engineering and execution), I'll call the other tech guys over to take a look at it and sometimes even ask some of the racers who are in the tech line to come over and look at an example of how this particular part of the car should be done. Boy-oh-boy, you talk about a car owner popping the buttons off his shirt from being proud of his ride.....WOW. It gives everyone a good feeling and prompts the other racers to do a better job.
oh yeah. if i gotta wait another year to run my car im going to go over everything thrice