Why I like Rice Burners.

I like that so many of today's youth are buying rice burners. No, I don' t think the cars are cool and I do think they are a complete waste of money and can never be fast because of the front wheel drive. They are just ugly and annoying.

With all of that said, what is there to like about rice burners? Because so many people are buying rice burners, fewer are buying old muscle cars. This keeps the price of muscle cars down because there is less demand for them. So let the "tuners" waste their money on their fart 17 second econobox with its fart can exhaust and grounding kits. Right now I cannot afford a muscle car, even a free one, but I know it wont be long before I can because they are still cheap.

You have a valid point, but have you priced muscle cars lately. Last time I did some checking, I could not afford any. :CRY: You might be able to get an old Nova for a decent price, but there seems to be more of a demand for them than you give credit for. I wanted a SS 454 Chevelle. If there was one to be had in my region, it wasn't for a decent price. So I tried a 70 Cutlass. Again, no luck. My friends could afford them, but not so I. From the post I did earlier, I figure my best bet is to get a 1965 AMC Marlin and drop a big Javelin motor in it. Then you'd have a sports sedan with muscle, or something close to it. While there are A LOT of rice rocket owners out there, there are also A LOT of muscle car enthusiasts out there. And they like the big three. Good luck though, and start preparing for the second mortgage. Course you could find an old parts car to restore keep stock, but even those are going high.

Very good point! I had never thought anything good of them untill now!

Interesting perspective. While we've chewed this fat before, with the ebb and flow of members, it's good to revive it from time to time.

Part of the disagreement that could come out of this topic is that each person brings their own definition of what is a muscle car to the discussion. We've beat that one before too, and I won't do it here again. True muscle cars are still pretty pricey, near muscle cars are all over the board. With modest drive trains, and "normal" trim and options, these near muscle cars are "affordable" to most anyone who wants one. But the same things drive pricing as always ............................supply and demand. 76's comments focus on the demand part of that. I think it's still accurate to note that most people (emphasis on the most, not to be confused with all) start out with car ownership buying an "affordable" used car relative to their place in time. So it is quite natural for today's young folks to buy a used car, typically used "family" cars of their era. When I was a newly licensed driver I and my contemporaries were buying early to mid '50's cars. These were cars that were new when we were 5 to 10 years old. Sure, a few bought even older cars, but they were the exception. We then modified these cars as far as our budgets would allow to make them into whatever we thought was cool. To me, kids today are following a very similar pattern.

As time goes by we increase our earning power, and broaden our ability to humor our car dreams. For guys my age, that meant buying an older car, if we were more attracted to traditional rod material. By older I mean the ones that were the "used" cars of the generation ahead of us. Usually cars that were made anywhere from 20 years before we were born to the year of our hatching. Or, if our "dream car" was the true muscle car we couldn't afford when we were teens, we fulfilled that dream. Today, as we "geezers" have reached a point in life where we're in pretty good shape financially, we drive the market on rods and muscle cars. Since we're the "post war baby boom", there are a lot of us, and we are having a big impact on those markets. Until we reach an age where we start to "clean up" our lives and, due to health issues or death, start selling off all the "stuff" we've accumulated, the current market pricing will sustain. (barring some major financial crash).

So, for 76 and anyone else hoping for muscle car prices to drop, you're a bit ahead of your time. Remembering supply and demand, there's a good chance that in 10 to 15 years from now there could be the beginnings of a growth in supply. Be ready!!

Not fast?
You must not be paying attention.
(Sort of like the speed crowd when the flathead V8 came out <g>).
While I am more inclined to the muscle car/hot rod era... The newer kids are not so inclined, and have made a multi BILLION dollar industry out of their care of lil' engined cars.
I wouldn't tangle with some of them....
Now the neon only fart pipe crowd... That's another story..
That reminds me of the STP sticker and a pair of glasspacks crowd of a generation ago...
They thought they were cool, but the real speed builders knew better.....Just like now.
Some of the Rice burner stuff is pretty cool.
Jeff ( Us old dog's can still learn new tricks, but we can bite, too) Rice:toocool:

well deep, have you driven a mechanically done neon???i figured.
I'm in a rare position, i own a 1975 vette thats done to the nuts, and also a neon 2 door sport that is also done .
don't get me wrong, I love my vette more than the wife, but that little fart can can really move.I bought it as a cheap drive to work,but after a few mods this little bugger can move.
I would not hesitate to run against a neon with the vette, and i would win, but since playing with my winter beater in the summer I have a whole new appreciation for these little fart cans.
It wouldnt take a good drag race mechanic (If you can find one interested)long to make one of these mitsubishi/dodge combos, be a real contender.
sorry guys , but i had to swim in the cesspool of rice to see what it was all about.

Bob you make a very good point. And to the same extent some kids are doing what comes easiest. When the majority of your age group is "tuning", your resources and availability for reference, and info are more vast at yer disposal. Your in the loop just by age, why shouldn't they take advantage of it. And just like all other sports, hobbies, etc, there are going to be the ones who accel and move on to learn the real skills not just how to bolt on chome noisy parts. Those few will either learn the vallue of these cars as machines or take on herritage rides as their new found love of machines increases. The poser is in every auto trend and should not be the ideal to be judged by. I love the tech side of anything I get into and sitting down and learning some very interesting things about these powerplants is fascinating. I am going to make a generalization (like the one made about tuners) and say that the ones who scorn it have never picked up a book on the subject of these superflea's, or if they did they got mad cause they couln't understand it. I know I get lost in some of the highly scientific operating systems on these and even some on the high mod nostalgia rides. Streets has lost me a few times talking "drag" specs. Anyone see the Car & Driver Super Flea episode at california speedway. Good stuff, and a 360HP pocket car is pretty impressive when it only costs you as little as 30 G's after mods. (thats a car out of the box that DOESN'T need an interior, etc. :LOL: ) Anyway I'm rambling. You'd be surprised how much in common they have with you!

I am not impressed with the "fart pipe tuner" crowd at all. But they are not that far away from the early '80's and the pro street movement. Remember them.....big and littles, paint schemes from the 70's and little engines. They looked fast, and if you caught one NOT on a trailer, most sounded sick. All show and no go!!:CRY:
Now don't get me wrong! There were a few that had the HP to back up what they looked like they could do. And I am greatful for them. But most were show and no go. It wasn't just one brand either. So I am not picking on anybody. ;)

What it comes down to is this....the kids SEE these cars running around. They SEE them in the movies! They SEE the parts for them on the shelves at the parts stores.:eek:

How many of you DRIVE your ride to the store? Work? School?

Just what I thought...your saying " I got to much $$ wrapped up in it!"

"Only to rod runs!"

" Only on nice "perfect" days!"

And the best excuse ever..."Only on a trailer!!"

Well there is no sense complaining about them. They are doing MORE than any of us are!!!

They are DRIVING thier rides...for others to see, hear, touch and be able for others to see what THEY can get also!

p.s. I DO expect to get a few replies to this!!:3dSMILE:

My ride remains a daily driver, even while it gets painted.

I have a little four banger Saturn SC2. The thing looks good, looks like it oughta go fast. I have found some mods I can do to it for not a lot of $ down. I found a good blower for it for around $2000, specially designed for this engine. But I would rather keep the car stock and invest my money in my street rod. I have noticed something interesting, though. While there are many American equivilants to the rice rockets (neon, SC2, SC1, etc.), the parts available are much fewer than those for ricers. Just look for car mods on ebay. I have noticed there are MANY mods available for the Hondas and Mitsus, even quite a few for Toyotas. Still quite a few for rice inspired domestics, but not nearly as many. I used to know some of the ricers. The domestic cars just didn't hold any allure. I don't totally understand why they buy jap, but think it may have something to do with rebelling. Maybe it is not so much an inability to afford American as it is a lack of desire. I'm sure that from the money spent on some of the ricers, a fast, powerful American car could be afforded. The $30,000 quoted earlier could buy a Camero and several mods to it. The show and no go is very true, as well. Bolt on noisy chrome things is what most of the affordable mods are to the crowd. I took a look at some of the noisest ones. Most had just the exhaust changed and a buzz muffler installed. A few had cold air intakes and headers, and I think I only found one with any thing more complicated installed. That is not counting the body kits which serve no useful purpose as I can tell. Many had those. I asked several why they went to the trouble of doing the mods to gain a lack of aesthetics or maybe 50 HP, maybe a few more or less. Most said cuz they wanted to be different. How are they going to be different if they all look they same. Sure, maybe one has a stripe down the side that the other 20 don't, but if you want to stand out, spend your money better. As for that annoying BUZZZ sound that most emit, I have a personal theory as to the allure of it. That noise must vibrate the car. That vibrating must jiggle their cojones and make them feel pretty good. :LOL: Why else would you intentionally have your car vibrate or sound like that? It's all craziness if you ask me. I can see why people would want a jap car from the reliability standpoint, but as for tuning a ricer, that is putting whipped cream on sh*t, if you ask me. Just my $.02.

Matthew, one of the reasons you see more go-fast, and doll-up goodies for the Japanese based cars, as compared to the U.S. ones, is that there is a thriving market across the Pacific (meaning more than just Japan) for them. Tuner cars are BIG in Japan, and the more industrialized countries south of them. If I had to guess, I'd say that a big majority of the performance technology comes from there, and at least half of the glitzy stuff.

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Originally posted by Bob Parmenter
Matthew, one of the reasons you see more go-fast, and doll-up goodies for the Japanese based cars, as compared to the U.S. ones, is that there is a thriving market across the Pacific (meaning more than just Japan) for them. Tuner cars are BIG in Japan, and the more industrialized countries south of them. If I had to guess, I'd say that a big majority of the performance technology comes from there, and at least half of the glitzy stuff.

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I have looked up the manufacturers of some of the junk being sold. Even for the mods for an American car, most are from Japan. I can even see tuning a Jap car, if you are in Japan. What I don't understand is why the fad crossed the Pacific. I know why they got a foothold here years back, but is the cheap price tag all that drives this? I had an opportunity to buy a Jap car, a Toyota. I chose the Saturn instead. I have had more trouble out of my Saturn in the 11 months I've had it than my grandfather ever had out of his Toyotas, or my Aunt ever had out of her Hondas. They are still more reliable than American cars, but I don't like how all of our business is leaving. I will still buy American, with the exception of sports cars, which I may then go foreign, probably Porsche, or S2000. I just wonder if these Rice enthusiasts will ever decide to go American? I think the problem is bigger than just the folks who tune rice, its the existance of rice in this country at all. I hope I find some people sympathetic to my views here, as the rice lovers seem to be taking over.

We're dancing near the edge of hijacking 76's thread here, but I think your question still applies.

I'm going to guess you're under 30 years old, so a lot of what led to the market alignment as it is today happened before you were born. Up to the early '70's GM alone had something around a 50% market share. The Japanese cars combined were down near single digit share. Honda wasn't even in the market except for motorcycles. Then came the first oil embargo and the marketplace panicked. Demand for higher fuel economy vehicles exploded virtually over night. Though the "Detroit" auto makers took a flier at "economy" cars in the early '60's, the demand for higher fuel economy cars just wasn't that significant and the American cars gradually grew in size and power to keep pace with American tastes. Even though various European auto makers tried to break into this market during the late '50', early '60's, only VW enjoyed much success in a relatively small market segment. So the American manufacturers were "out of position" when the radical shift occurred. Not only were they out of the market on product size and fuel economy, but they had some serious management problems. At that time in history it was in vogue to have accountant minded managers progress to the top jobs. In my opinion, the most agregious of these CEO's was Lynn Townsend at Chrysler. The problem with the accountant mentality is that they don't understand marketing and sales. What they do understand is jockeying numbers. From their point of view, it made perfect sense to keep cutting costs in all areas of the vehicle design, production, marketing, and sales processes. The result was a process that was sometimes referred to as "de-contenting". As a result, they kept offering vehicles that had less and less. Cheap plastic parts, and lower quality became more and more the "norm". When there was less competition they were able to get away with it, but as always happens, the consumer reacts and seeks what's in their best interest as soon as it is available. The Japanese manufacturers were at the other end of the spectrum. They wanted to grow. Because of conditions in their own country, they were already making the smaller, more fuel efficient cars that the market place would soon demand. And they were smart marketers. Japanese products had an advantage (at that time) with lower production costs. And the auto makers were sensitive to the very real reputation for poor quality that immediate post WWII Japanese products had. As such, the management of those companies put a very high emphasis on build quality, and content, hoping that the market would recognize their efforts and shift it's position. And as market places usually do, the shift occurred, albeit gradually. They were prepared when the opportunity occurred (see my signature line) that propelled their products to a higher demand position. The arrogance of the American manufacturers, and the narrow minded business plans of their management, crippled them. Any that doubt the negative impact of the accountants approach only need look at how Chrysler's fortunes were corrected. Like him or not, Lee Iaccocca was an engineering/marketing minded manager. He understood that accountants had a place in the process, but that the "de-contenting" model wasn't going to work for long. Controlling costs was critical, that's why he built a business plan around utilizing the K platform for most of their production, but that the customer demands needed to be met as well. No accountant minded manager would have ever "invented" the mini-van. It took a marketing minded guy to recognize the underlying market demand.

So in the mid '70's the Japanese companies gained momentum. The American companies were slow to react. For a variety of reasons, some external (government meddleing in safety, economy, and polution demands), and many internal (resistance to change along with the poblems noted above) the "Detroit" auto makers fell behind. It took them years to reverse their bad habits, and of course, the competition wasn't standing still. So they played catch up for a long time. Some believe they're still playing catch up. Now we have Toyota getting into NASCAR, first trucks in 2004, and cars in 2005. This week Pontiac announces it's dropping out of NASCAR. :HMMM:

Of course the story is more complex than noted here, but this is a brief overvue. Regardless, all one need do is look around to recognize the market mix.

Mathew, that's pretty interpretive about the rebellion "buy rice". I have noticed the trend as well in a lot of fad arenas. It's sad that nothing is clear in this day and age and our own young citizens feel their very country is the enemy. I live in SF CA where right is judged wrong and wrong, right. It's disturbing how many people here feel the need to make it known their dislike of the US, confusing it's present policies with our founding ones. But you don't see them leaving for those "greener pastures" or doing anything possitive to make things here better. They will preach all day about the US being a bully super power, but they are the first ones cutting you off in traffic, cell phone in hand shrugging a cold shoulder at the Vet who fought for their right to be such a mules rear. It's never "what have you done for someone else", but rather "what has someone else done for me".

Yikes, gotten off the subject a bit. What if we started a campaign in the music, movie, etc industies to make the hotrod, muscle car, customs the coolest thing to hit this century. A new resurgance of American pride in automobiles. Pros and cons? Prices would skyrocket, but demand for parts would increase, increasing the kinds of parts you could get (aftermarket). Then if everybody was eggin' you on at the light in their old iron the complaint would be "every Joe and his sister thinks he's Richard Petty cause he's got a classic hotrod, muscle car he bought yesterday.........I been buildin mine fer 50+ years"

Is it the people who drive the tuners we dislike, the cars, the trend, or what the cars or the people who drive them represent?

This subject has really got me hooked cause it isn't just about the cars but a cultural landslide. Could it be the advent of foriegn cars is a precursor to the crumbling of our history as a country? (just being a little loose with exagerations of horror there, not meant to spark anger)

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Originally posted by Bob Parmenter
We're dancing near the edge of hijacking 76's thread here, but I think your question still applies.

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It's official now. The thread has been hijacked.

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Originally posted by Justin94117
Mathew, that's pretty interpretive about the rebellion "buy rice". I have noticed the trend as well in a lot of fad arenas. It's sad that nothing is clear in this day and age and our own young citizens feel their very country is the enemy. I live in SF CA where right is judged wrong and wrong, right. It's disturbing how many people here feel the need to make it known their dislike of the US, confusing it's present policies with our founding ones. But you don't see them leaving for those "greener pastures" or doing anything possitive to make things here better. They will preach all day about the US being a bully super power, but they are the first ones cutting you off in traffic, cell phone in hand shrugging a cold shoulder at the Vet who fought for their right to be such a mules rear. It's never "what have you done for someone else", but rather "what has someone else done for me".

Yikes, gotten off the subject a bit. What if we started a campaign in the music, movie, etc industies to make the hotrod, muscle car, customs the coolest thing to hit this century. A new resurgance of American pride in automobiles. Pros and cons? Prices would skyrocket, but demand for parts would increase, increasing the kinds of parts you could get (aftermarket). Then if everybody was eggin' you on at the light in their old iron the complaint would be "every Joe and his sister thinks he's Richard Petty cause he's got a classic hotrod, muscle car he bought yesterday.........I been buildin mine fer 50+ years"

Is it the people who drive the tuners we dislike, the cars, the trend, or what the cars or the people who drive them represent?

This subject has really got me hooked cause it isn't just about the cars but a cultural landslide. Could it be the advent of foriegn cars is a precursor to the crumbling of our history as a country? (just being a little loose with exagerations of horror there, not meant to spark anger)

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You give a valid point. If the trend of buying foreign products and farming the work out overseas continues, this country will cease to exist. It also has to do a lot with what my dad calls "the fickle American public." What Bob was saying about the car company's lack of ability to adapt is true and partially based on this concept. The aftermath of any major bad event is stupid legislation, and CA leads the way, do you agree? Hence the safety regulations, economy regulations, etc. And the public's desire to have the newest different thing is what puts car companies out of business. If enough changes in legislation occur and the desire to buy American products in general continues to wane, American products will be held as relics of a bygone era. Like my Nashes, people will forget they ever existed. Another interesting point that is related, do a google search of the great depression vs. the current recession. This one is starting out just like the depression, only steeper. Now I'm speaking in general terms, but America used to produce high quality products. Now it appears that the trend of the public and the gov't is to go with the cheapest alternative. "there's never time to do it right, but there's always time to do it over" It is this kind of thinking that almost got the military Oriental berets. The construction of the local community college I attend was farmed out to the lowest bid. After the school has been here for only 5 years, it is already falling apart. And I have it on good authority (a multiple jap car owner) that the quality of oriental cars is declining. He bought a Hundai new, and the thing fell apart in under 6 months. He now drives an old 70s toyota, as does another friend. The scariest people are those like you mentioned. Ones who never think about the good of where they live, and always berate it. Now I will say I don't care for the present leaders, as they lack a little thing called a brain. But I don't badmouth the whole country and all its veterans for the shortcomings of the leaders. I just hope they screw up just enough to get booted out of office, but not so much as to be irrepairable. The kind of people you mentioned are snobs, and I wish they would confine themselves from society. I'm not sure just what it is that we dislike the most. I think I don't like the trend. I can see where some of the ricers are coming from, but they are just the part of the problem you see the most. Just like the market crash was a symptom of the depression, the ricers are a symptom of a bigger problem. I don't think any one of us is going to be able to fix it. It would take a change of the American public's buying patterns and a change in the entire mentality of the public. Another bad offshoot of this is where all the money goes. The money pouring into these 3rd world countries and even japan, but especially China, is or can be going toward the military. Great. We are funding the military of a foreign country that already has ill will toward us, while we are removing our production capabilities. Can you say SITTING DUCKS? Just my $1.02.