I'm building up a 29 Model A five window coupe. I'd like a tilt wheel, using a floor shifter but really can't pay the price for Flaming River or Ididit. Has anybody had bolt-in success with a certain steering column from the junk yard? Thanks
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I'm building up a 29 Model A five window coupe. I'd like a tilt wheel, using a floor shifter but really can't pay the price for Flaming River or Ididit. Has anybody had bolt-in success with a certain steering column from the junk yard? Thanks
A very neat, clean, and often overlooked junkyard column is from a '67 - '79 Ford 4 wheel drive pickup that came from Detroit with a floor shift. Tilt versions are a bit harder to find, but they're around. The column is reasonably short, nothing on it but a turn signal lever, and easily covered with a polished aluminum tube..... Works great, looks fine.
I have 31 5w if you need measurments I can provide, mine came w/ aluminum column but floor to dash etc measurments should be the same. 31 5w
thanks, I'll keep your name handy,
Grady
Dave I've used that same column many times. Theres one in my 53 ford
Well not the same ONE
My 34 plymouth has a Buick column, circa 1970. It is locking column, keyed with tilt. Mine is about 35 inches long and painted to color match the car. Has been a good unit, but I will likely replace it with a non keyed unit from FR or Ididit when I rewire my car (not likely this year). :rolleyes:
I'm using an Ididit in my '31 roadster (see my AVATAR) - the total overall length, tip to tip, is 32 inches and is the length recommended by the owner of Ididit. It extends about 1.5 inches below the floor boads and is connected to the R&P via 3 Borgeson u-joints and a stationary bearing.
The Ford P/U may be too long for a '29 though a very good choice. Had one on my ancient '79 F350.
Somewhere I have pictures of my '31 setup but not in my hard drive car folder - probably wasn't a digital photo.:D
Irelands child do you have any pictures of the interior of your car so I can see how your Ididit steering column looks not to mention what kind of room you having with the steering wheel installed. I am building a 1930 Brookville roadster, but I am not to the stage of needing my column. I was told that the correct length to use for my 30 was a 30" column length. Now I am curious because I do not want to purchase one until I know for sure. Thanks
the 1995 S10 Blazer has a floor shift. don't know how long the column is though. same as the S10 pick-up. i'd say all of them are tilt. :cool:
Assuming the Brookville firewall is not indented for a V8 (???) here is a diagram DennyW sent to me. It looks like a '30-'31 and may be of some help for the angle. Check out my picture on the "Everybody Building....." thread. The problem for me is that the engine indent in the Bebops firewall curves just about where I want to put the column. I am using a '83 Camaro column but at 34" it may be too long and I may have to scrap it and start over????
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
You are not going to have much luck with a junkyard steering column if you are looking to bolt in. Now, if you are willing to do a little extra work: disassemble, modify, cut, weld, etc then it is a simple matter of finding a column which has the features you want, and is a close fit as to reduce the labor to a bare minimum.
I'll try to find a photo - did take some but probably not digital.Quote:
Originally Posted by stylingZ
I actually talked to the owner of Ididit - Ken Collison and used his recommendation for the 32".
Depending on how it is measured, the recomendation for a 30" might be correct and that Ididit's 32" is the same
Here's a pic of a home-made ball bearing aluminum steering column I made.
Not counting U-joint, quick disconnect or steering wheel, I have less than $35. invested.
Here it is in kit form.
Discounting the steering column drop, etc. you'll have to machine up some pieces.
The ball bearing retainers may not be required depending on the column diameter, wall thickness etc.
Using a steel column may make retaining the bearings easy.
What you will need is a couple of retainers that clamp to each end of the steering shaft proper so as to keep it in place and have the proper bearing play - which is set at zero.
Ball bearings used are sealed bearings.
Steering shaft used is a stock GM non-tilt shaft that's 37" long.
It comes out at the right length for most roadster type cars.
Found in vans and passenger cars circa 1970's - 1980's or so.
Last one I bought was $5.00
Cockpit ergonomics will be correct and the U-joints will end up at a good angle with reasonable clearance to the rear exhaust port. (455 Buick engine.)
I've used a similar steering setup in my 32, 44,000 miles and no probs.
Here's a pic showing the dash-column-etc. relationships.
It's comfortable and has good ergonomics.
Seat used is a two passenger model out of a mid-90's ChryCo soccer mom van.
VERY NICE !!!!
Did something similar in steel years ago before I got fat and lazy and wanted someone else to design it plus have tilt.
This pic gives you a general idea of clearances etc.
Nice part about using the full length stock GM steering shaft is the U-joints are at a fairly minimal angle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irelands child
I made a steel column for a 50 Ford coupe running a Rocket motor many years back.
Used a chrome plated scavenger pipe from the muffler shop.
Scavengers were a popular dual exhaust setup in the early 60's.
They were nothing more than a piece of 4' exhaust pipe belled on the end and tossed into the plating tank.
The pipe along with a bored out Moon aluminum column drop made a nice column for the coupe.
My pal has a tilt GM column in his 29 A roadster.
He needs it, not so much that he's roundly challenged, but because the seat is tilted and a little high in front imho.
Works well for him.
A lot of guys like/want tilt because the column proper drops through the floor at such a steep angle.
A more moderate angle will do it and unlike some setups I've seen you don't have to leave the wheel tilted just to have a good angle on the steering wheel.
May as well use the tilt for what it was designed for.
Entry and comfort after entry.
If a guy built the proper floor exit/retainment device for the colum, it wouldn't be too difficult to set a non-tilt column and wheel up so it could swing to the right on entry then swing back and lock after you were in.
C9X, as usual you show excellent superb craftsmanship (although I wonder how you handled the turn signals?) and I really appreciate seeing the early picture of the angle of your column with the Buick engine. If you look at my recent picture on the "Everybody Building...." thread you can see the mess I have. According to the angle you show above I could/should cut the hole in the vertical part of the firewall rather than in the floor and in my case cutting theough the floor conflicts with the master cylinder and the steel plate along the inside of the body any way. For the surface above the floor my Bebops firewall has the engine indent right where I want to mount the column. So what I am asking is for a picture of where your beautiful column goes through the firewall from the inside. Since I have a non-tilt column I am very interested in the entry point and the angle you are using. The problem with a test hole is that to use a hole saw on the next step I have to have material left in position for the center drill to hold the saw in position. Pardon me for worrying over this too much, but once I cut that hole it will be tricky to change it.
Don Shillady
C9X, I can submit the same picture to this thread but it should be enough to take a look at the "Everybody Building ....." thread.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Here's a pic of where the steering column goes through the floor.
I have yet to weld in a flat piece so an aluminum trim ring can be installed.
The column raises up at the floor level 3/4" - 1" over what the pic shows when it gets tied to the floor.
Does that help . . . or would a different view be better?
I've found aluminum con-rods at March Meet and California Hot Rod Reunion for $5.00 each.Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyW
They're seconds, blems, failed inspection pieces and a couple were water damaged from rain, but it was only a discoloration and they cleaned up nice.
The one in the pic hadn't made it through all the steps and didn't have a wrist pin hole bored.
The rods are forged with a fairly tall area so as to accomodate differing wrist pin heights.
After that, the tops are milled down for inside the piston clearance.
Anyway, long story just to say that fitting a con-rod without wrist pin hole took two 3/8" holes drilled vertically so as to bolt to the cross bar plate.
Said plate being drilled for several holes so I have the option of moving the steering column left or right - as I've done once already.
A finished aluminum con-rod takes a little more adapting, but it ain't difficult.
What you will want to pay attention to is the rod journal bore.
You may luck out and get one that fits your column OD.
I did once and used a beer can shim - best part was preparing the shim for use. :LOL:
The rod in the 31 has a 2 1/2" journal bore and there is a separate adapter piece that slides - just barely, it's a close fit - over the column OD and the rod clamps the adapter in place fairly well.
Said adapter may get JB Welded to the column later on.
I've also used aluminum con-rods as tailpipe hangers and have a couple saved out for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
Turn signals are on a small aluminum powder coated black panel just to the right of the steering column.
Not seen in pics of the 31, but here's a pic of the same setup in my 32.
The button in the middle is an old style Ford starter button - available at NAPA in single or double terminal NO.
On either side of that is a pair of 3PDT switches oriented horizontally and wired to operate the turn signals.
Works pretty well and the dash pilot lights are fairly bright even though small so the turn signal seldom gets left on.
Turn both switches outward and you have emergency flashers.
Right now I have them wired to an ignition switch controlled source, but they'd be better if wired to an always hot terminal.
Not too wild about leaving the key in the igniton just to make the emergency flasher work.
You can just see the horn/turn signal panel to the right of the column drop above the steering wheel hub.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
Since you're dealing with a glass body, if you miss on the exit hole, it's not hard to glass the knockout back in, add a layer or two of glass and drill again.
Same deal with steel . . . after the cussing :D get out the old welder.
I took a look at the posts you mentioned.
Seems like you're on the right track.
And you have clearance for the already installed header as well . . . that's good.
I built the headers on the 32 from scratch and they're built around the lower part of the column on that car.
The 31 will be a little easier, but there still has to be a special pipe built around #7 (last one to the rear on the left) to clear the column.
As a small aside, the 32 doesn't have a while lot of clearance between #7 cylinder and pipe, but the heat doesn't seem to have affected the Borgeson U-joint any.
44,000 miles down the road with about 30,000 on the Borgeson joint.
(The Deuce Factory U-joints I originally installed developed play not too far down the road.)
Take a look at the pic of my 32's steering column.
Brake pedal placement can be moved transversely due to use of a Deuce Factory bracket and arm (53 Ford brake pedal and pad) by making a new spacer - or pair of them depending on where the arm ends up.
The column goes through the 32 firewall in about the same place the 31 does.
The size 10 shoe to give you an idea of how footroom goes.
although . . . the shoe is sitting up too high on the Gennie Shifter spoon pedal.
I'm 6' with a 32" inseam and if you look at the carpets dirty spots you can see that my foot goes further down the pedal as well as the foot is cocked a bit.
The trans tunnel in the 32 is a little higher than most cars, part of that was so I can wedge my foot against the trans tunnel when it's on the throttle pedal.
Looks like you will have the same advantage vis a vis foot placement.
The brake pedal may look a little close to some.
Part of that is the angle of the pic and the other part is I'm a left foot braker.
Others drive the car and have no problems doing the right brake-foot bit.
C9X, Excellent response on a Friday morning! I was just out in the garage measuring more and making white-pen-paint marks while working up to a possible hole saw event after lunch. Thanks much for the first picture of your floor. My straight column will be close to where you have yours although I think the Bebops indent in the firewall is a little deeper than your metal firewall. If (?) I get the hole in the right place I will have to play around with the depth of the column insertion as to whether I have to make my own drop or use a commercial one. The welded plate you show is outstanding but I am without a welder and it is essentially impossible to drill holes in the front cross bar under my cowl although I did have some success with a right-angle drill adapter. I will either make my own drop bars on either side of the column to the front edge of the dash or use a column drop. For DennyW, I had a chat with a guy who mfgrs. a fake con-rod drop as shown in
http://www.jbmicrofinish.com/catalog_6.html
(fourth picture down the page).
They will machine the con-rod-drop to any inner i.d. you spec. and you can have two notches, one notch or no notch, and the price is about $70 which is tempting to me since most of my career I merely made sketches and sent them to the machine shop rather than doing my own machining. C9X, that is amazing craftsmanship and thanks for the quick response.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
Not a problem, the new doxie pup drags me out at 0500 most mornings.
Me too on making the marks and sometimes thinking about it overnight.
It's a hobby and a lot of people forget that in their striving to get it on the road as soon as they can.
My (31 Brookville body) firewall is recessed 4" so that's why the difference.
Nuff for now, lunch is over and time to head out to the garage and finish the battery box....
Hi , I use a mid. to late 80's GM front-wheel drive column with tilt and a floor shifter. This is in my 30 coupe. I have MII style front-end with shorter upper a-arms. I have 3 u-joints and 1 heim joint to a Flamming River rack, it steers great! P.S I got a muffler pipe expanded to fit the bottom of the column and cut and welded it to the firewall. Davee
Well I still haven't cut that hole. My '83 Camaro column measures 33" from the tip of the 1"D to the rim where the wheel is and had a sheet metal flange welded to the bottom end. I used a body grinder to smooth off the weld on the column but it still looks rough with two small ventilation vents and a wire clip around the snout end, to hold in the bearing I guess? Anyway I am still flirting with the idea of using an Ididit tilt version to get a smooth tube along with the tilt. Another problem (besides all the rough stuff along the column) is the plastic collar which prevents a column drop. In the meantime I note that Speedway has a 5" drop for '32 dash boards with a swivel and that would solve the problem of the upward sweep of the '32 style dash. I wish you guys would settle the length for a model A whether 30" or 32" because I need to make that choice if I buy an Ididit column. At this point I would favor 32" just to get the tip of the column down a little lower and the Ididit tip is clean enough to show. If anybody knows, I would appreciate comments on the length for a Model A, assuming the 5" drop for a '32 dash.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
Don,Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
Give ididit a call Monday - my 31 has a 32" from tip to tip and I am using their 6.5" drop with a Brookville '32 dash with reinforcing in the back - see C9's post in shop talk. It is masked for paint tomorrow. Photo was just taken about 10 minutes ago. Add an adapter and wheel and it will be about 3 inches longer, mas o menos. Wish it looked as good as C9's but not enough tooling.
Dave
Thanks IC, A picture is much better than words. The way I was measuring that would look like 30" from D-tip to wheel collar, maybe that is how the other folks are measuring? It would seem that if C9X used a 37" rod inside his neat custom column that is why he shows so much of the column tip in the engine bay, but it is beautiful. On the other hand my 33" column would be 35" by your way of measuring and it looks to me that I might run into the back edge of my block. I can't move the column toward the edge of the cowl because of the firewall indent. Sorry to worry over this so much but Bob's comment about the wart on a beautiful woman is true in this case where the column is visible in the engine compartment. Thanks for the picture.
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
We retired OF's just need a bit more convincing that something really does fit. Also, the fact that 300 bucks for an unpainted column plus a 50 dollar adapter and a 100 to 400 dollar steering wheel is a lot of money now - and it has to be right the first time. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Shillady
Oh yeah, my favorite old Ford pickup columns that came out of trucks with a floor shift also don't have an ignition switch cobbling up the smooth appearance of the column.... No wiring in the column other then the horn and the directionals and no trash on the column, either. The wiring comes out way down on the bottom. I get them out of a local yard for about $30.00. Usually takes a light sanding with 400 sandpaper, a steering wheel, and adapter to make them hot rod ready. Like Uncle Bob, I prefer fabbing my own column drop then weld and mold it to the column.
To figure your column length, sit in the car and position the steering wheel where you want it and have someone measure the distance from the hub to the floor, then add a couple inches or whatever works best for your car to the overall length for it to protrude the floor...
Keep in mind that you can move the column to the left at the floor - if footroom etc. works out.
The column in my 31 is close to the inside of the left frame rail.
Works for me cuz the Buick's #7 header pipe needs the room.
Since I end up building my own headers, it's best for me to set up the steering column etc., get the erognomics where they are right and then build the headers.
In the case of a set of block huggers - provided they aren't finished - I wouldn't be bashful about modifying a primary pipe or three if that's what it took.
Getting back to the moving the column to the left, granted, it will leave the steering wheel not square to the dash, but it doesn't hurt.
My 32 is done that way and no one - spectator, passenger or driver - has ever commented that the steering wheel is off square.
Some stockers came from the factory with an offset steering column/wheel.
My 50 Plymouth coupe was that way.
Worse than either of the roadsters in fact.
It wasn't bothersome.
There are a lot of things we can do that aren't kosher to a lot of hot rodders, but many times the factories have already been down that road.
EG: my 32 engine is offset to the right 1" for header to steering shaft clearance . . . which wasn't really required once the dust settled.
Offset engines are an old factory trick.
Symmetry be good, but not always necessary....:D
Some very good points your brought up, C9. I know a lot of Ford and Merc's in the 60's thru 80's have the engine set to the right, I would imagine GM's are the same. Even somehow goofed on a race car or three and had the engine and tranny offset to the left a couple inches..... Must of been a measuring error......:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Yeah . . . it is kinda funny that one race car builder driver I knew, helped and crewed for made quite a few mistakes.
Seems like most of them made the car handle better.
Fwiw, a 50 Olds coupe at the old Bonelli Stadium racetrack in Saugus, California that was a top runner due to the driver/builder's skill in building as well as driving.
There's some history for you, not to mention the reason why 50 Olds coupes and sedans are seldom found nowadays.
The circle-burners used em up like they were going out of style.
Well thanks for a lot of help and it's not over yet. I bit the bullet and ordered a smooth column from Brookville, although they use a 34 1/2" column for both '29 and '32 roadsters. It is tilt and the cheapest I could find at $260. However it only has the eight wires coming out of the bottom of the cone and not a connector plug. The guy at Brookville said they hide the wires on the back of the column drop so I will have to set up a connection block somewhere under the dash. In the meantime while waiting for the column I will cut the hole about where C9x has his in the '31 and use my ugly stock Camaro column for mockup. This also means putting a starter key somewhere on the dash and loss of wheel lockout, but I really did not trust the welded cut off end of the shift lever which might accidently slip into "PARK" while driving if the weld ever broke off from vibration fatigue. In fact that reason is second only to the desire for tilt flexibility in going to the Brookville column. I am in the process of adapting a one-off 1/4" aluminum plate to cover the awful gash around the brake pedal, add strength to the column at the bottom and provide a mount for a left-foot dimmer switch. I am tired of using a column dimmer switch and really want the ability to dim the headlights without losing grip on the wheel when running into a bright light situation. Now I can have my foot switch! It's going to be ugly for a while but I will send a picture of the final setup.
Dave S., you asked for comments on the Merc body so here are a few. First, that may be a real money maker for you and the future has to be for more later model replicars to fit modern frames so that is really neat. I have no problem with the apprearance of the rear window, but I lived next door to a man who babied a '50 Merc for many years through several improvements and so the rear fenders look "naked" to me with the lights in the bumper. I do not know what tailights are best, but it looks funny to me without tailights higher up, just my opinion. Maybe '47 Ford tail light lenses blended/frenched in without the extensions would work, or even round Pontiac lights. On the other hand that can be the choice of the builder.
Daver, What are the rear turn signals on your Model A ( I still envy the professional job you have on your stainless brakelines!)
Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder
My plan is to build the body with no lights cut in. so many choices on what lights to use on the back of the Merc, just as soon let a customer pick his own spot.