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I just moved the new project into the new shop yesterday.
I want to clean up the body, prime it and start working.
Not sure which direction to go here.
Some say blast with various media, walnut shells, glass bead etc...
others say have it dipped in sodium hydroxide (with electricity) ....
still others say just put ospho ( phosphoric acid) on it and sand and paint .
Any thoughts on this topic?
Here are a couple pics of the project Topolino.
Thanks
that is a tricky question depending on who you ask. i asked the same question a couple years back. and i got many different answers, i think it all depends on who you ask. i know that if you have it blasted it should be a very qualified blaster. with a lot of experience in doing cars primarily., so they do not get it too hot and warp the shell. most restorers ive talked to prefer dipping over anything else, that way they know what they are getting into with no surprises later. my anglia dipping quote was 2200.00 in indiana.
What about using Molasses there has been a bit of talk about using molasses for removing rust. It looks like a very clean body maybe molasses is the way to go .
I'd go with the media blasting. Just make sure whoever does it knows what they're doing and use the correct media and gets the inside of the body and all the little cracks, corners, and crevices too. After it's blasted I'd use the "Phix" type product to kill the rust that was missed and get some epoxy primer on ASAP!!!!
What a gem you have found! Being almost a 50 year fan of drag racing, I have found these to be extremely rare! I can see it is very heavily rusted, but looks like it may still be solid.
I normally would sand blast, using a local blaster who is very experienced so they don't ruin the sheetmetal by warping it. I don't think other media are abrasive enough to clean this completely....
...but on yours, it is so heavily rusted, I would onlu consider dipping it, because of all of the hidden areas that are rusting. What concerns me is that if you do not stop the rusting, it will continue, even if the outside is nice and shiny. A couple years down the road, I would expect to see rust bubbling from those folded body areas, like door edges, and closed in areas that cannot be stopped any other way. At that point you will be losing the paint job, too.
If you aren't willing to do it the best way, due to cost, I would sell it to someone who will, and go buy a 'glass body with the money. I use this guideline in my own work: "Do it right and you'll only have to do it once."
Fabulous little car! Please post pictures of the project. :-)
i would use starblast. it is a very fine media and gets into cracks and pits.
There's a shop in O.C. that dips them. They turn out very nice.
Just a question,
If you were to blast the body & doors, and then work in Por-15 inside and out on all the seams.
Would that stop it?
Pat
i use epoxy inside and out.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: I was quoted under $1000 to do Large Marge's body & to do everything would of been under $1500. I guess it good to be in the midwest..Quote:
Originally Posted by mooneye777
Personally I'd dip it........joe
hey joe, i just tipped toed thru large marge . cool truck guy. i have a 41 ford 5 ton to build a motor home with someday.
Had a buddy wh owned a stripping/dipping biz here in Tacoma area.......as I remember from helping him some days........if it is a car you dont expect to keep very long......dip it. The main problem we ran into, is nomatter how well you thought you cleaned to solution out, you always had some that hid behind the welds, braces etc...........so unless you dipped it in a tank of etching primer with electrodes on body....forget about getting all solution out........then the rust comes back in those spots.:eek:
Thanks for all your input, it is a big help.
This is what I am doing.
I used 3M scotchbrite wheels on a die grinder and took almost all the rust off. No way to get in between welds and into closed areas, but I got all the exposed rust, inside and out of the body. 4 days with the compressor running constant. I am pretty happy with the results and very happy with the condition of the body. I know every inch of it now and have started the body work.
At some point soon I will be using one of the phosporic acid metal converters on every surface. With a tricky little spray hose I am going to get as much of the hidden areas as I can and then call it good.
Then I will prime it with an epoxy primer and that should be an excelent, not perfect, but an excelent base for a decent paint job (or at least primer) for several years.
Any recommendations on the rust converters?
The picture of the louvers shows one done and the other in its original "30 years in a backyard" patina.
Just be sure you do not bondo over areas that have not been neutralized somehow with an acid product. Rust is an ongoing process. Brushing it off, but leaving little pits with orange or brown rust in them will not stop it. It will just rust again under the body filler.
Perhaps an etching primer would be best, then use a compatible body filler over the top of it.
Another way I have used with success is to sand as much off as possible, treat with metal prep keeping it wet for 3 minutes, let dry, then resand and bondo. The point is that the phosphoric acid in metal prep changes rust (iron oxide) to iron phosphate (gray color), and you will not have the rust coming back.
Good luck. It's worth the effort!
I understand rust doesnt stop but doesnt the phosporic acid convert the rust to black oxide and it is no longer rust?Quote:
Originally Posted by HOTRODPAINT
The problem I am addressing is that you stated you started the bodywork. If the bondo goes over rust, it will not allow the phosphoric acid to get to the rust to neutralize it.
Just use the acid, and then be very sure to resand before applying bondo. Metalprep leaves a coating on the surface. My experience is that you need to sand back to metal, or the bondo will not stick!
The other suggestion was to use self-etch primer, instead of metalprep. Many of the new fillers will adhere to paints. Just check it out with your paint supplier. He should know what works together.
OK, I got you now. When I said bodywork I meant the metal work. Dolly and hammer, patch panels, welding etc.
My plan was to use bondo over the epoxy primer.
How does that sound?
is this the stuff to use? I am doing the same thing to my engine compartment but will cover with por 15. Then do a final coat of paint over everything.
Detailed Product Description:
Metalprep®79 is a non-flammable multi-purpose phosphoric acid-based
cleaner and pre-paint conditioner for most metals. Application of
Metalprep®79 leaves the surface chemically clean and corrosion free.
Metalprep®79 can be used to deep clean and etch a metal surface prior
to paint or to prepare a surface for a subsequent chemical coating like
that produced by Galvaprep® SG on zinc and steel or Alodine®1201 on
aluminum surfaces.
Brush Application:
For light oxidation and corrosion removal, dilute one part Metalprep®79
with two parts water. For heavy oxidation and corrosion removal, dilute
one part Metalprep®79 with one part water.
Immersion Application:
For each 100 parts of bath, add 25 parts Metalprep®79 to 75 parts of water.
Spray Application using a 62-G Applicator:
Set dilution control on 3, allowing a mix of three parts water to one part
Metalprep®79.
Equipment:
Acid-resisting (rubber, stainless steel, or plastic) buckets, troughs, or other
suitable container should be used to hold the diluted Metalprep®79 cleaning
and conditioning chemical solution.
Ordinary steel pails may be used for a short period. Galvanized containers
should not be used. If production conditions warrant, troughs may be installed
to catch cleaner run-off for reuse.
Application:
A typical treatment time where Metalprep®79 is in contact with metal surface
is between one and two minutes. The Metalprep®79 should not be allowed to
dry on the metal surface or be permitted to re-oxidize prior to a thorough rinse.
Metalprep®79 is normally applied at temperatures between room and 120°F.
If drying occurs, rewet with the diluted Metalprep®79 prior to water rinsing.
A thorough rinse with clean water is necessary to remove both residual
Metalprep®79 cleaning and conditioning chemicals and oils that have been
lifted from the metal surface.
A clean surface is a "water-break-free surface". The rinse water sheets out
over the metal surface where oil will cause water to bead up. Chemical
cleaners will lift and break down oils on the surface of the metal and assist
in rinsing them from the surface of the metal.
Corrosion is generally the result of a chemical battery reacting on the metal
surface. In the presence of moisture, this corrosion can grow out over the
metal surface. Metalprep®79 cleaning and conditioning chemicals attack
the surface oxides and the corrosion battery. The result of this attack is either
the corrosion battery being removed or deactivated.
Blushing or yellowing on steel is often seen when using Metalprep®79 solution.
This chemical reaction is not injurious to quality, provided it is not rust or pits.
Blistering and corrosion problems are often the results of poor rinsing. Salts and
soils trapped under a paint film eventually lead to problems.
To aid in the removal of heavy oxidation or corrosion, heating and/or applying
the Metalprep®79 cleaning and conditioning chemical with an abrasive pad will
shorten the treatment time. Scotch-Brite pads are often used.
Metalprep®79 should not be used on a sand blasted part because rust will form
instantaneously. The rust, then formed, is harmful to quality. Paint soon after
the work is dry in order to prevent soils or rust from contaminating the prepared
metal surface.
Storage Requirements:
Metalprep®79 cleaning and conditioning chemical will freeze at 14°F. It is
recommended that the product be keep from freezing. However, should it freeze,
simply thaw it in a warm place and stir it prior to use.
Waste Disposal Information:
Applicable regulations covering disposal and discharge of chemicals should
be consulted and followed. Disposal information for Metalprep®79 is given
on the Material Safety Data Sheet supplied with this product. The processing
bath is acidic and contains phosphates. Waste treatment and neutralization may
be required prior to discharge to sewer.
Precautionary Information:
Before handling the product, the first aid and handling recommendations found
in the Material Safety Data Sheet should be read and followed. The processing
bath is acidic. Do not get in eyes, on skin or on clothing. In case of contact,
follow the recommendations found in the Material Safety Data Sheet supplied with
the product.
Sounds like the same way most metal preps are used.