Idea for push button electric shifter

I have been kicking this idea around for a while now, but have a few humps I can't get over.

I have a 4" www.uslinear.com electric actuator out in the shop. These things are really cool. It works like a hydraulic ram with simply 12 volt power. When you reverse the current it goes in the opposite direction, and shuts down at the end of each run even when power remains applied.

The problem with the t-bucket is the shifter is right in the way no matter what you do, with such limited interior space.

My thought is to mount the actuator on the trans and wire it through a simple power window switch that I would then place in a neat location in the car (on the dash, column, side panel, etc.).

I have no doubt it would allow me to press it and move the car in and out of gear on the turbo 400. However, I don't know how to "know" what gear it is in as I have not figured out a way to make a gear indicator...or a way to lock it out to make sure it does not go into gear while you are going down the road.

Can you electric gear heads put on your thinking cap and help me brainstorm a simple, neat, clean way to make the switching go smooth and accurate without spending tons of $$$$?

BTW--the unit looks like this picture below. You can use these things to open doors, move seats, lift trunks..hoods, etc.


http://www.uslinear.com/images/Actua...rak1_small.jpg

Have you checked with the Mooneyes folks? They have developed the exact shifter that you're talking about, I saw it at the SEMA show this past November. They have been testing their shifter for some time and I think it is supposed to be ready to ship soon. So, just in case you don't want to go through the "trial and error" :CRY: (possible tranny damage), you can check with Mooneyes.

Dan J

P.S. I think they were going to be selling this item for under $500.

Dan,

I never even heard of them before. I am just now getting into street rod stuff after doing Vettes and others for most of my mechanical life.

The concept is simple enough. Making sure it is in the right gear is the trick.

I thought about this yesterday in the shower (do some of my best thinking there).

If I run the main power (it does not draw many amps at all) through the brake light switch, then there would be no way to change gears unless the brake was activited. That would keep you from popping it into reverse or something while going down the road.

Second, I thought of going to the bone yard and finding an old cable operated gear shift indicator for a '70s-late '80s car. You know what I mean, the spring loaded PRND21 clear plate that the orange needle could be pulled across. Then, I would have to mount the cable on the shifter and mount the indicator on the column or somewhere. After I figured out how to synch the two, I would know what gear I was in at a glance. This way I would not have to put any sort of limit switch for each gear stop.

I already have the actuator motor and bulk wires to put the electric together, I just need to polish off the details here.

BTW---this would be EASY on a different car that already has a good shifter. I was thinking about this for my 85 Vette at one time. If I disabled the park lock out button and shaved the shifter handle off, I could mount the actuator in the console and put the switch anywhere. The stock PRND321 indicator would still show the gear, and the neutral saftey switch would still apply, but the shift lever would be gone!

69MyWay,

Sounds like you’re planning out the work for your next project :) I know that the idea of using an electric actuator for electronic shifting is legitimate, because the Mooneyes folks have a fully developed product based upon this technology. It sounds like you’re familiar with how the actuators work, and you just need to fully develop your idea with appropriate shift “stops” and all of the safety features incorporated.

If you use the brake light circuit as the prerequisite for engaging reverse, why not use a normally open switch (powered by the brake light circuit) in series with the reverse circuit so the reverse circuit is only closed when the brakes are applied....

Here are a couple of links about the Mooneyes “Smart Shift” product.

http://66.216.94.142/

http://www.semaphotos.com/winners.html

Good luck,
Dan J

69, the only thing I would add about the actuator you've got is that it's a linear unit utilizing a screw to transmit the motor's work. It's designed to stop at the end of it's total travel at either end. Perhaps the company that manufactured it can shed some light on alternatives since they would be the logical ones to have been presented with the opportunity to deal with the issues involved.

The unit that Dan mentioned is real slick. It uses a stepping motor (step motor) as an actuator, and has a pretty sophisticated logic board to control neutral start, park, reverse lock out, etc. Then uses small indicator lights to designate gear selection. Even if you do your own setup you could do something similar with switches at the shift mechanism connected to lights on the dash, or whatever, and avoid the clunky OEM type of piece. If you're interested in how stepping motors work and are controlled here's a link http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/

Those factory type floor shift units, as well as the aftermarket ones, utilize detent balls to indicate the stopping points for each gear. You might want to think about using a cable shift mechanism. You could mount the "handle" just about anywhere, perhaps under the seat, just sticking out enough to grab. You can get cables lots of places, but a local marine supply house probably has the ability to make one for you to any length you specify. They probably have some other associated components that would ease design of the hookup pieces too.

Streets, see, your distaste for Mopars is gonna bite ya here!!!! Their units were actually a bundle of cables from the quadrant to the trans. I think you're right about the Edsel, but then they only did it the one year ('58).

Keep up the creative thinking 69. BTW, where's all the help from the self annointed "real" hot rodders?:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 69MyWay


I have no doubt it would allow me to press it and move the car in and out of gear on the turbo 400. However, I don't know how to "know" what gear it is in as I have not figured out a way to make a gear indicator...or a way to lock it out to make sure it does not go into gear while you are going down the road.



http://www.uslinear.com/images/Actua...rak1_small.jpg

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How bout 30bucks for an indicator, best I know of :toocool:

http://www.tperformance.com/street_r...ht_assemblies/

69MyWay,

Uncle Bob has a way of seeing those tiny details that can really screw up your plans if you don’t do a little homework... he’s probably “been there, done that” a few times. After reading Bob’s post, I took a few minutes off from work :rolleyes: (Ok, I’m goofing off for a few) and did a little research for you. You need to check on something before you go a lot farther with plans to use your current actuator. First of all, you need to determine if your “Electrak 1” actuator is the model with limit switches or the model with a potentiometer position signal device.

If your actuator has limit switches, you can only accurately control the “starting” and “stopping” positions. This is going to really make your job difficult if not impossible. And, you are probably going to be looking at an unsafe situation at best.

If you have the model with the potentiometer, you can control intermediate positions between fully retracted and fully extended, but you will probably want to use one of the Electrak control boxes to position the actuator. You will also need to determine which of the control boxes is best suited for your intended use. Keep in mind your need for “lock out” positions when researching the control boxes.

It’s great that you’re trying to use a piece of hardware that you already own, but it might not be the appropriate application for your remote gear selector. But hey, you are on to a solution to a problem - so keep moving forward! Bob has given you a good clue in pointing out that the step motor actuator may be a better selection than the screw drive type.

Again, good luck.

Dan J

Quote:

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Originally posted by Streets
[color=red]
Gee BBBob, cables running down thru the steering column in a '63 413 Red Ram Wedge engined New Yorker?? On my daddy-in-laws ride, it only has wires attached to the "shifter actuating box" on the trans..and the buttons are in the center of the steering wheel like they wuz in the Edsel... ....

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Interesting! My '64 had a dash like the '63 pictured below with the buttons on the left side of the instrument panel. And for general knowledge, '64 was the last year Mopar used the buttons due to Federal mandate.

The mind is a terrible thing to lose!!:LOL:

Loved that "crystal ball" dash. Had the speedo at the back, and the other gauge functions cascaded down toward driver. Picture attached:

Bob and Streets, you guys are going to have ole 69MyWay trying to figure out how to get one of these ole Mopar dash boards in his T :confused:

I've been waiting for someone to suggest a column shift with a cable kit... kinda lowtech, but it does get the shifter off the floor :)

I'll go back to work now **)

Dan J

Great ideas guys.

Bob, Thanks for pointing out the different types of linear actuators. Most people don't even know about them, and those that do don't realize the wide spectrum of ones available. The trouble is, for the cost of a new actuator and control box I am knocking on the door of buying the ready to go unit. Spending $500 is out of the question for this part of the project. In that case I would just replace the current shifter with a new gate shifter for about $100 and be done.

I modified a 2" linear actuator on my 69 Vette to operate my wiper door. It works like magic, no vacuum, no worries. I wired it taking advantage of things that make common sense to the electric circuit. I then added delay wipers to the 69 which added a few twists and snags to the operation. It was a ton of fun to build and an absolute joy to see them working. (most 68-72 vettes end up with a long hood or the door saftey wired open all the time)

Right now the car is VERY unsafe. The shifter it has can be knocked into reverse just by bouncing on the seat! In fact, back in 1982 it happed to us, and we left a pair of black rubber streaks on the road for 30' or more in the wrong direction.

I like some of these ideas you guys have. I love the electronic shift indicator. My thinking is, you will be able to feel when the car goes into gear, so at that point you would just let go of the switch (like a power window). The wiring through the brake/back up lights, etc. is a really cool way to keep it from changing gears while you are cruising down the road.

Room? Hey, that is the goal. The actuator would be on the trans, and the switch would be on the dash. That would free the floor up all together.

Hmmmmm, still grinding this one over in my head. I am going to try to get the trans cleaned and painted before the weekend is over and just take a look at different mounting points on the actuator for giggles and grins.

Well, here is the rough test fit.

I set it so that it is at the extreme stop in park, which means the actuator shuts down at that point even when power is still applied in that direction.

It was very simple to mount. I used some shouldered bolts so that the pivot rides on the smooth area of the bolt.

Update,

It is in and working well.

I installed a neutral saftey switch on the shifter arm at the trans to prevent cranking in gear. I am using a basic power window switch and relay to switch gears. The switch only has power when the brake pedal is depressed.

The car is so light that you can easily feel it go in gear, so you release the switch when it hits the gear you want.

It has really freed up the interior space not having a shifter lever, and the switch on the dash just looks cool.

I have about $3 in the conversion, as I built it with left over parts from other projects. This beats spending $125 on a new Hurst, etc. shifter for the T400.

In a different car I would have put a shift indicator light. Total Performance has those as well, but that would add $80 to the project. Although this complicates the car a bit, I am trying to keep the overall look simple and clean.


If I had it my way it would have only gotten a speedo and fuel gauge on the dash.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dan J
I've been waiting for someone to suggest a column shift with a cable kit... kinda lowtech, but it does get the shifter off the floor

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i did that about 20 yrs ago, beat trying to bend rods to make the shifter work correctly.....joe