Who knows his/her MSD?

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01-13-2009, 02:16 PM
marlinspike

Who knows his/her MSD?

I'd like to put an MSD in my car (so that I can raise the redline and also so that I can tune the timing curve). My car has a Mercedes engine in it (to go with the Mercedes body), but it's fairly modified. It's running Bosch CIS injection with no electronic correction (well, I'm putting in a laptop programmable warm up regulator, which for those who don't know CIS is the normally vacuum powered device that regulates the control pressure for the fuel injection, but with my cams I need to replace that vacuum-based control with one I can program for each rpm on a dyno with a laptop).

The German engines have a different firing order from American engines, so I can't put an MSD distributor in. The current factory distributor is uses a magnetic pickup star wheel. I was figuring I could get the MSD 6AL-2 Programmable ignition box, and then lock out all of my current timing adjusters, and use that to tune. Getting rid of vacuum advance is simple enough, plug it up (right?), but what do I do to get rid of the mechanical advance?
01-13-2009, 06:28 PM
pat mccarthy

call msd they make alot of new stuff
01-13-2009, 06:29 PM
Matt167

you cannot get rid of your advance unless you are running a race car, not practicly anyway, even tho 1 of the digital MSD box's can take care of timing advance... firing order also has nothing to do with how a ignition box works.. it fires on what cylinder is next on the cap, the magnetic pickup just triggers the interupt to pulse the coil. it's not going to matter firing order...

it might be best if you megasquirt the car and ditch the Bosch CIS.. that system is not good for modding.. MSII should work fine
01-13-2009, 07:34 PM
marlinspike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt167

you cannot get rid of your advance unless you are running a race car, not practicly anyway, even tho 1 of the digital MSD box's can take care of timing advance... firing order also has nothing to do with how a ignition box works.. it fires on what cylinder is next on the cap, the magnetic pickup just triggers the interupt to pulse the coil. it's not going to matter firing order...

it might be best if you megasquirt the car and ditch the Bosch CIS.. that system is not good for modding.. MSII should work fine

I don't really want to megasquirt. With the laptop programmable warm up regulator the Bosch CIS should do well enough (there is a local Porsche shop that has been getting modded Porsches to work well with CIS with this laptop programmable warm up regulator).

I know the things you said about firing order - the 6AL-2 Programmable I'm talking about is the ignition box that lets me map the timing without having to change the distributor (what I was saying is they don't make a distributor that will work with my car, but that I figure if I get that 6AL-2 Programmable I can map my timing curve without having to change my distributor). That's why I was talking about getting rid of my advance - I want to get rid of the advance my car is currently doing so that I can tune it all with the MSD ignition box. Or is this still incorrect thinking?
01-13-2009, 07:36 PM
marlinspike

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

call msd they make alot of new stuff

I called once and got a guy who knew what he was talking about, but I didn't have all the info he needed. When I got all the info and called back, I had forgotten that guy's name (mea culpa) and wound up with some guy who had a little trouble with English and didn't seem to know much (i.e. he knew as much as I do, at most), so I figured I'd ask here.
01-13-2009, 07:39 PM
Dave Severson

The tech's at MSD can make that box to do anything you want it to do.....rev limiters, timing advance, boost retard, turn on lights, bells, whistles, trigger injection controls, or a nitrous timer...but none of it's cheap....
01-13-2009, 07:46 PM
marlinspike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

The tech's at MSD can make that box to do anything you want it to do.....rev limiters, timing advance, boost retard, turn on lights, bells, whistles, trigger injection controls, or a nitrous timer...but none of it's cheap....

Turning what became the family beater into this (http://www.davidson.smugmug.com/gall...50290531_etBA2 - these are really cruddy impromptu videos my friend took, but they give you an idea - oh, and that wasn't blue smoke when cold and that isn't valve tap you're hearing, I have no idea why it sounds like that in the video, if you put your ear next to the valve covers you hear no tapping...oh, and those are 2.47 gears it's running, when I finally get the scratch together for a 3.07 things should improve quite a bit - that's original color Glasurit paint btw) wasn't cheap either (and took quite some time for me to finally get close to finished). Now I just need to raise the redline (will bypass the 5950rpm fuel pump cutoff and utilize the MSD's ignition stutter to set the rev limit to 6400rpm which based on how it runs now should make this engine much happier), map my timing, and do a dyno tune of the mixture, just how much can the MSD cost? That laptop programmable box is like ~400, is there anything else I need to do the things I want?
01-13-2009, 07:47 PM
tango

I have this MSD Down Load it should Help . http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/WireDiagrams/WDTN.PDF It take a Short time To Load . Looks good :)
01-13-2009, 07:55 PM
Dave Severson

Quote:

Originally Posted by marlinspike

Turning what became the family beater into this (http://www.davidson.smugmug.com/gall...50290531_etBA2 - these are really cruddy impromptu videos my friend took, but they give you an idea - oh, and that wasn't blue smoke when cold and that isn't valve tap you're hearing, I have no idea why it sounds like that in the video, if you put your ear next to the valve covers you hear no tapping...oh, and those are 2.47 gears it's running, when I finally get the scratch together for a 3.07 things should improve quite a bit) wasn't cheap either (and took quite some time for me to finally get close to finished). Now I just need to raise the redline (will bypass the 5950rpm fuel pump cutoff and utilize the MSD's ignition stutter to set the rev limit to 6400rpm which based on how it runs now should make this engine much happier), map my timing, and do a dyno tune of the mixture, just how much can the MSD cost? That laptop programmable box is like ~400, is there anything else I need to do the things I want?

No idea what else you would want, like I said think I'd be for calling one of the Tech's at MSD. They're very helpful and from past experience I can tell you they will make that box do anything you want it to do. As for the mixture, a pull or two on the chassis dyno will get that set exactly where you want it. I did invest in a mixture gauge and appropriate O2 sensor for this summer's racing.... Mainly to see what temp and weather changes do at the track. Think it might become a standard fixture in most everything I build from now on... Probably a lot more accurate and certainly quicker and easier then reading plugs all the time........ Starting to like some of this hi-tech stuff, I guess....
01-13-2009, 07:58 PM
marlinspike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

No idea what else you would want, like I said think I'd be for calling one of the Tech's at MSD. They're very helpful and from past experience I can tell you they will make that box do anything you want it to do. As for the mixture, a pull or two on the chassis dyno will get that set exactly where you want it. I did invest in a mixture gauge and appropriate O2 sensor for this summer's racing.... Mainly to see what temp and weather changes do at the track. Think it might become a standard fixture in most everything I build from now on... Probably a lot more accurate and certainly quicker and easier then reading plugs all the time........ Starting to like some of this hi-tech stuff, I guess....

Lol, I tried to read plugs. I got to the point where I could kind of sort of do it, but at 23 I gave up and decided to go high-tech.

I guess I was just hoping one of you guys know exactly what I need to do because while the first time I called MSD tech the guy knew a lot (and was even familiar with the unique problems of MSD on a Mercedes), the second guy was not helpful at all. I guess I'll try again tomorrow and hope I get the good guy again.
01-13-2009, 08:02 PM
Dave Severson

Quote:

Originally Posted by marlinspike

Lol, I tried to read plugs. I got to the point where I could kind of sort of do it, but at 23 I gave up and decided to go high-tech.

I guess I was just hoping one of you guys know exactly what I need to do because while the first time I called MSD tech the guy knew a lot (and was even familiar with the unique problems of MSD on a Mercedes), the second guy was not helpful at all. I guess I'll try again tomorrow and hope I get the good guy again.

Just tell them you want to speak with someone familiar with the Mercedes systems. Heck, can't expect them all to be familiar with all the different systems on the road today.... I've got a certain guy I always ask for, mainly cuz he seems to understand Ford's on E-90, and he talks in plain English so I don't have to sit on this end of the phone and feel like a complete idiot when I have him explain everything he sez!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL: