How and when did you turn pro builder?

[Itoldyouso]

I know that this forum has good mix of hobbyists and professional car people. I thought it might be interesting to hear how some of you pro's got into the car building or engine building business and what were some of the lessons you have learned along the way. Have you had to reinvent your business in these tough economic times?

I figure there are a lot of guys who are now hobbyists who have considered making the leap, and that you who have been there could offer some suggestions and tips.

Don

[hotroddaddy]

Don, are you thinking about opening a bussiness?

IMO its not a bad idea for you guys, you know your stuff, and you have a nice size fan base just from the forums.

[Itoldyouso]

Don, are you thinking about opening a bussiness?

IMO its not a bad idea for you guys, you know your stuff, and you have a nice size fan base just from the forums.

Nah, that would be way out of our league. Just thought it would be interesting to hear some stories like Jays of how he got into his business and what lessons he has learned. People like him who have been able to flourish for as long as he has evidently know their craft and how to market it.

Don

[HOTRODPAINT]

The question was not aimed at painters, but having been around the hot rod biz for so long, I have seen many things they have in common. Here are some of my experiences:

Two things got me into this biz....my friends trying to hire me....and the passion I have for it!

Here are some things I have learned that fit all workers in this market....and you'd better listen close, or you will pay the same price I did to learn these things:

Work at it part time for a few years, until you establish a reputation, and repeat customers. Those two things will determine how consistant your business is.....unless you can work without food or electricity...and don't care if you wife dumps you for someone who makes a living. :-) I worked part time in this community for about 12 years.

Diversify...diversify...diversify! If you only do one thing...or one style of car...or offer to work on one part of a car....you will be out of business as soon as the fads change (and they will!), or as soon as the economy slows down.

You need to live in a large enough community to generate a solid demand. I started out in a town of 300, with 50,000 nearby. I now live in an area with almost a million in population...and still hit a slow time occasionally.

Be honest, repectful, dependable, and communicate well. This will keep you in business, because people will enjoy working with you , and they will not only come back for more...but they will send their friends. It's the very best kind of advertising. I don't advertise at all. I tried many times, but it never really produced much work compared to having friends supporting your effort.

Do a quality job, and charge a fair price. If it does not pay you enough to live, you will be driven out by economical needs, ...and BTW, you will find that those "favors" and "give-away" jobs are the ones that you end up having to redo...repair...or take more time than you thought. (Don't ask me why!...it just happens very very often.)

When you go full time, KEEP YOUR OVERHEAD LOW! The economy goes up....then down.....then up....etc, etc. If you have heavy expenses, you may not survive the "down" times. Usually, if you need a large facility, the county areas are less expensive than metro areas. Just don't get too far away from your customers.

Your customers will usually ask for specific work, but try to work a little beyond "the usual way of doing things", whenever you can. Otherwise your work is always boring and predictable, and you won't be noticed by many potential customers.

Now get busy, and if you are lucky, you will end up getting paid to enjoy your favorite hobby! Good Luck.

[twin blown]

The question was not aimed at painters, but having been around the hot rod biz for so long, I have seen many things they have in common. Here are some of my experiences:

Two things got me into this biz....my friends trying to hire me....and the passion I have for it!

Here are some things I have learned that fit all workers in this market....and you'd better listen close, or you will pay the same price I did to learn these things:

Work at it part time for a few years, until you establish a reputation, and repeat customers. Those two things will determine how consistant your business is.....unless you can work without food or electricity...and don't care if you wife dumps you for someone who makes a living. :-) I worked part time in this community for about 12 years.

Diversify...diversify...diversify! If you only do one thing...or one style of car...or offer to work on one part of a car....you will be out of business as soon as the fads change (and they will!), or as soon as the economy slows down.

You need to live in a large enough community to generate a solid demand. I started out in a town of 300, with 50,000 nearby. I now live in an area with almost a million in population...and still hit a slow time occasionally.

Be honest, repectful, dependable, and communicate well. This will keep you in business, because people will enjoy working with you , and they will not only come back for more...but they will send their friends. It's the very best kind of advertising. I don't advertise at all. I tried many times, but it never really produced much work compared to having friends supporting your effort.

Do a quality job, and charge a fair price. If it does not pay you enough to live, you will be driven out by economical needs, ...and BTW, you will find that those "favors" and "give-away" jobs are the ones that you end up having to redo...repair...or take more time than you thought. (Don't ask me why!...it just happens very very often.)

When you go full time, KEEP YOUR OVERHEAD LOW! The economy goes up....then down.....then up....etc, etc. If you have heavy expenses, you may not survive the "down" times. Usually, if you need a large facility, the county areas are less expensive than metro areas. Just don't get too far away from your customers.

Your customers will usually ask for specific work, but try to work a little beyond "the usual way of doing things", whenever you can. Otherwise your work is always boring and predictable, and you won't be noticed by many potential customers.

Now get busy, and if you are lucky, you will end up getting paid to enjoy your favorite hobby! Good Luck.

WOW HOTRODPAINT did you ever hit each and everything right on the nose very well put, for the beginner i have been doing this for about 10 years as a hobby and had my own business doing something other then cars and i got to tell you that what you have just said would fit almost anything anyone goes out and trys on there own.
again very well said good job.

[firebird77clone]

I just kind of figured peeps would be saying they turned pro :

when they started getting paid for what they used to do for fun

[Dave Severson]

I just kind of figured peeps would be saying they turned pro :

when they started getting paid for what they used to do for fun

I've been doing this Hot Rod stuff for 40+ years and I still do it cuz it's fun.....Guess I'll never be pro if it's got to be all about the money!!!!! Oh well, I still enjoy my ametuer status!!! When it quits being fun guess I'll just have to go get a real job!!!!!!

Lots of good points on the money stuff, and of course it is important if you want to stay in business. I've always kept it really simple, provide a quality product at a reasonable price, don't go credit crazy, and don't try to start your own shop until you have enough $$$$$ bankrolled that you don't have to take any money out of the business for at least a year..... Start out with small jobs on a part time basis, build a solid reputation as an honest and reliable person and the rest will take care of itself......

[pat mccarthy]

i will get back to you when it happens

[HOTRODPAINT]

(QUOTE) "I've been doing this Hot Rod stuff for 40+ years and I still do it cuz it's fun.....Guess I'll never be pro if it's got to be all about the money!!!!! Oh well, I still enjoy my ametuer status!!! When it quits being fun guess I'll just have to go get a real job!!!!!! Dave Severson" (QUOTE)

Dave, It was more fun when it was a hobby, but It still beats working at something you hate! I gave up all of my chances at a retirement...insurance...paid holidays...and security, to do this instead. For me, It's about the enjoyment first, but there has to be enough money to eat and keep the electricity on...so some jobs are "respectfully" turned down for the simple reasons that (A) I can't stay in business at those rates...or (B) there isn't enough to do the job well,.....and of course, (C)"I don't do collision....sponsorships....or quick favors". :-)

[Daffy427]

I made a living out of it for a couple years(early 90s) but I was in a small market and most of my work was from dealers who bought hot rods that were unfinished or otherwise screwed up..Lots of electrical, bad steering geometry and a few crooked clips... It payed the bills but it got to be a bit of a grind after while..Sometimes I think I'd like to go back to it but nowdays so much of the stuff is storebought. I'm sure it's a lot safer but I miss the old junkyard,do it yourself(and make it work) stuff..

[Dave Severson]

(QUOTE) "I've been doing this Hot Rod stuff for 40+ years and I still do it cuz it's fun.....Guess I'll never be pro if it's got to be all about the money!!!!! Oh well, I still enjoy my ametuer status!!! When it quits being fun guess I'll just have to go get a real job!!!!!! Dave Severson" (QUOTE)

Dave, It was more fun when it was a hobby, but It still beats working at something you hate! I gave up all of my chances at a retirement...insurance...paid holidays...and security, to do this instead. For me, It's about the enjoyment first, but there has to be enough money to eat and keep the electricity on...so some jobs are "respectfully" turned down for the simple reasons that (A) I can't stay in business at those rates...or (B) there isn't enough to do the job well,.....and of course, (C)"I don't do collision....sponsorships....or quick favors". :-)

Yup, it's all fun!! Some days just a lot more fun then others!!!! Got to admit it's a whole lot more fun since I sold the shop and just work in my garage on my own cars, then sell them when they're done.... New opportunity now, helping a friend get his shop straightened around and on the road to profitability.... Doing complete builds on a couple Camaro's and a '36 Plymouth sedan. Really fun when someone else has to pay the bills and book the work in and out.... I'm seeing lots of bad in the way things were run, but the most distressing thing I saw was the two young dudes who were working there just didn't give a hoot about the profitability part. Didn't have any initiative and averaged about 15 billable hours for every 40 hours they worked!!!! How the heck can your consicience even let you take a pay check????

[Itoldyouso]

Have any of you that are on your own, or were on your own, every thought it was better to work for someone else and let them carry the load? Everyone thinks the owner/boss has it made, but we who have been around for a while know you have to be the hardest working person in the place.

Don

[pat mccarthy]

Have any of you that are on your own, or were on your own, every thought it was better to work for someone else and let them carry the load? Everyone thinks the owner/boss has it made, but we who have been around for a while know you have to be the hardest working person in the place.

Don

well yes i left a full time job that a made good money and at the end of the day i did not worry about the jobs at the shop that i work at. i did some what but not like i do now.like having work or finding work to pay bills i had my shop that i have now when i work full time. i used my shop to build cars headers and engines and paint cars .i did not want to loose my shop so i work out of my shop if i could go back to work full time for someone doing body paint collision work .i would do it

[Daffy427]

Have any of you that are on your own, or were on your own, every thought it was better to work for someone else and let them carry the load? Everyone thinks the owner/boss has it made, but we who have been around for a while know you have to be the hardest working person in the place.

Don

There's a lot to be said for doing the work and getting paid.. Not dealing with the office crap.. There's also a lot to ba said for knowing you could quit if you want to.. When I owned my junkyard it seemed like all I did was push paper and deal with employee issues.. I got to where I missed pulling parts in the field and going home at 5 oclock.. All that being said it can be rewarding to know you own the place..It is possible to take a beloved hobby, turn it into a "job" and make it not so fun.

[HOTRODPAINT]

Have any of you that are on your own, or were on your own, every thought it was better to work for someone else and let them carry the load? Everyone thinks the owner/boss has it made, but we who have been around for a while know you have to be the hardest working person in the place.

Don

I worked for several large companies, but once I went full time, I liked the autonomy of making my own decisions, and doing what I chose to do, instead of simply doing what I was told.

The motivation for me is not money. It is achievement, pride of workmanship, and the creativity that I enjoy.

If punching out after 8 hours, or not working hard, is what a person finds important, they probably won't make it in business anyway.

Yes, if things go badly, you cannot point your finger at the company, and go find another job. The responsibility is only on your shoulders. It is not for everyone, but you have to decide that for yourself.

Even large companies are not bulletproof, as we are finding out....but while the large U.S. automakers are in trouble, I am working steady, so size does not always mean stability.

One other thought I will throw in is that, your family responsibilities, and your spouse's goals, also will have an effect on this decision.

I waited until my wife could help support the family, then asked for her blessing, before I went full-time. I soon found that she actually felt it was souly my responsibility, to provide whatever she demanded. She did not like my decision at all, once she found out that the money was less reliable, and she actually had to spend some of her own "clothes budget"!

My "NEW WIFE", values my happiness, and takes a real pride in what I do. :-)