Roll Cage

Techinspector;
I’m not sure if this is a stupid question or not.
If it was originally a unibody car and you cut
the whole floor out to install a solid frame.
Would they still consider this a unibody
since it originally was?
So would you still have to use the 6 X 6 plates
in between the roll cage and the new frame?
If not, do I have to put anything in between
the frame and roll cage ends?
The sheet metal that was originally in it was
16 gage.
That’s what I was planning on putting back
in the car, { 16 Gage sheet metal }.
I’m still waiting on my book to arrive from
Summit on the rules.
Any other suggestions, that I may need to
know? Thanks Kurt

Treat it like any other framed car. Drop through the floor material and weld the bars to the frame or frame members.

Thanks Again Techinspector; I sure do appreciate all the help you've giving me.

Kurt

Ok Guys; I got some more questions for you.
The swing out side bar, What is a sher end?
Photo's would help me alot, to me this constuction is not very clear.
If any one could go in to some details on it, I would greatly appreciate it.
What is a clevis? I kind of know a slidding sleve is just not sure how to build it.
For the side bar it's self, I was thinking of using 1 5/8.
I need to be clear on thickness of all the pieces.
Also does the front of the swing bar have to be placed
right in the lower corner of the cage?
Like I said Photo's would help.
Also the two bars that come from behind to connect to the top of roll bar / hoop,
can those be bent to come through my back window strait or level with top of
the roll bar/hoop. Thanks Kurt

es

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vara4

Ok Guys; I got some more questions for you.
The swing out side bar, What is a sher end?
Photo's would help me alot, to me this constuction is not very clear.
If any one could go in to some details on it, I would greatly appreciate it.
What is a clevis? I kind of know a slidding sleve is just not sure how to build it.
For the side bar it's self, I was thinking of using 1 5/8.
I need to be clear on thickness of all the pieces.
Also does the front of the swing bar have to be placed
right in the lower corner of the cage?
Like I said Photo's would help.
Also the two bars that come from behind to connect to the top of roll bar / hoop,
can those be bent to come through my back window strait or level with top of
the roll bar/hoop. Thanks Kurt

es

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Here's a sliding sleeve arrangement...
https://www.secureway1.com/alston/in...?productID=168
The rule reads:
"Sliding sleeves of 1 3/8 inch X 0.083 chromoly or 0.118 mild steel are permitted..."

Here's a swing out bar with clevises. The pieces shown with the half-moon cut in them weld to the bottom of the A bar and the middle of the B bar and are called male clevises. The female clevises are welded to the swing out bar shown in the photo.
https://www.secureway1.com/alston/in...?productID=169
The rule reads:
"Swing out side bar permitted on OEM full-bodied car 8.50 and slower. The following requirements (a through d) apply:
a. 1 5/8" OD x 0.083 chromoly or 0.118 mild steel minimum. Bolts/pins must be 3/8 inch diameter steel minimum and in double shear at both ends.
b. Male or female clevis(es) permitted. Male clevis must use minimum two 1/8 inch thick female brackets (chromoly or mild steel) welded to each roll cage upright. Female clevis must use minimum 1/4 inch thick male bracket, chromoly or mild steel welded to each roll cage upright. Pins/bolts must be within 8 inches of the vertical portion of both the A and B bars. A half-cup backing device must be welded to the B bar on the inboard side or the upper end of the swing-out bar on the outboard side, minimum 0.118 inch thickness chromoly or mild steel and must extend 1 5/8 inches past the center of the pin/bolt. A clevis assembly using a minimum 0.350 inch thick male component and two minimum 0.175 inch thick female components may use a 1/2 inch diameter grade 5 pin or bolt and does not require a half-cup backing device.
c. Sliding sleeves of 1 3/8 inch x 0.083 chromoly or 0.118 mild steel with minimum 2 inch engagement are permitted in lieu of the above pin/cup.
d. All bolt/pin holes in the swing out bar must have at least one-hole diameter of material around the outside of the hole.

Image 3 here shows a female clevis and male bracket. I can't tell in the photo if the male is minimum 0.350 inch and the females are minimum 0.175 inch, but if not, the connection needs a half-cup backing device.
http://www.bigdaddyperformance.com/i...s=0,1000000,13

All this gibberish about the half-cup device is to prevent the swing-out bar from breaking loose at the B bar and being pushed into the driver to cause injury.

The male clevis does not have to be right exactly in the connection of the A bar/floor. You can bring it up on the A-bar and inch or two. If the car's frame members are inboard of your legs and the floor has been modified, you'll need to include a sill bar that connects the bottom of the A bar to the bottom of the B bar, so it is better to move the swing out bar bracket up a little on the A bar to make room for the sill bar. You may not need a sill bar (also called a rocker bar) according to the rules, but you'll be glad it's there if you ever get up on the corner of the wall with the side of the car.

Although I disagree with the ruling, you are allowed to make one....ONE....bend in the C bars. Now, you don't have to take the C bars all the way to the trunk. The minimum angle from vertical is 30 degrees as viewed from the side of the car. So, figuring the B bar as zero, swing out away from the top of the B bar with your inclinometer and you'll see where the C bars could be run, probably to the front of the wheel wells that are in the driver's compartment. Cut through the sheet metal and attach to the frame at that point. No need to bend and go through the shelf panel if you don't have to. Also, you can move the C bars over on the B bar to the sides of the car if you want to, but don't go around the B bar curve at the roof any further than 5 inches below the top of the B bar. The bottom photo below shows a C bar installation that is attached too low on the B bar.

Thanks This help's alot Techinspector, I guess I'm gonna have to come
through the back window at a angle then.
There is not alot of sheet metal around the rear window.
So the back window is gonna have to be plexy glass now,
I guess. Thanks again Kurt.

Is this a truck? All along, I thought we were working on a car.

Hey Tech; This is a 65 Rancheo. HE! HE! HE! Kurt



And here is my buddies car's web site.

Hey; Techinspector I just added a photo of the back of the Ranchero.
The old 65 Ranchero's only has about 1 1/2 to 2 inches top's from the
top of the roof to the inside edge of the window lip,where the window
seal rides. That's why I was wondering if it was legal to bend the B bars
to come strait thru the back window. Other wise I'll have to come in at
a angle, Then I'm gonna have to try to find away to seal the back
window up. Mostly because of the angle the bars will go thru at.
Any ideas for this problem? It will be connected to the top of the hoop.
If you check out the photo on my web link you can see the back window
area, Thanks Kurt

Same situation on mine, Kurt. I'm going to run the back bars through the panel above the back window, don't really see any other way to get them to the top of the main hoop without making the hole in the sheet metal....

Hey Dave; This is my point, I don't have enough room to go thru above the window.
I'm gonna have to go thru the window, There is only 1 inch between the top of the
roof and the inside lip where the rubber seal goes for the back window.
Gonna have to use plexie glass, So what I'm trying to find out is can I bend the tops
of the B bars in or down to go strait thru the window, instead of at a angle.
Thanks Kurt

Well Guys; Dave Severson was not lying when he said it take's a real man to cut one up.
Well I’ve been cutting for three day’s trying to get the car ready to put the new frame in.
I’m freaken worn out and I am still not done.
Unibody my butt, they should have called it a every ware body!
There is 20 different beams under this thing going every which way.
They would have saved on material, if they would have just put a solid
frame under the thing.
I’m almost ready now any way and I got to find out how much this
old body will take.
And that ain’t much these days, Now who’s got my bottle.
HE! HE! HE! Kurt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vara4

Well Guys; Dave Severson was not lying when he said it take's a real man to cut one up.
Well I’ve been cutting for three day’s trying to get the car ready to put the new frame in.
I’m freaken worn out and I am still not done.
Unibody my butt, they should have called it a every ware body!
There is 20 different beams under this thing going every which way.
They would have saved on material, if they would have just put a solid
frame under the thing.
I’m almost ready now any way and I got to find out how much this
old body will take.
And that ain’t much these days, Now who’s got my bottle.
HE! HE! HE! Kurt

---

Well, if it was easy, everybody would be doing it and I'd have to go get a real job!!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

My hat is off to you Dave, I could not do this every day.
I have not worked this hard since I was in my 30's.
They must have put something on the passenger side floor.
It was not rusted out like the drivers side was and it took for
ever to cut thru it. Anyway I'm leaving the fire wall and the back
wall of the cab in for now. This way it will give the body some extra
strength till I get the new frme up and in.
But they both will come out after that, since both are rusted thru.
Kurt

Bracing car for new frame?
Ok Here is where I am at guy's.
I made plates to go over the door hinges and the door stops.
I put a big X acrossed the inside of the cab.
Now I am leaving in the fire wall and the back wall behind the cab.
I am going to leave a brase that is clear in the back of the bed.
Oh this is a 65 Ranchero, by the way.
Now I am going to cut out the rest of the floor.
All the brases will be remove except the very back brase
and the one I built in the cab of the truck.
Will this be enough till I get the new fram up in the car?
Kurt

Hey Guy's I got some new Photo's up of my frame and cross member. Kurt

That should hold it together just fine Kurt. Some good progress on the Ranchero, frame should be under it soon.

Hey guy's
Did you get a chance to check out my photo’s yet?
If so what did you think?
I know I still got a ways to go, but it’s really starting
to come along now though.
I got about half the bed cut out now, and dropped
the rear end out.
I’m glad I decided not to restore it to stock, too much
is rusted way.
The farther I get, the more I find that’s rusted thru.
The entire frame behind the cab was totally filled
with sand and rocks.
I would not have believed it if I had not seen it with
my own eyes.
The driver’s side frame was so bad that I could poke
thru it with a screw driver.
But no worries that’s all getting cut out anyway,
to make room for the new frame.
I’m also gonna have to rebuild the back half of the
passenger side door jam.
It’s rusted completely thru as well.
I’ll try to get some more photo’s up as soon as possible.
Who knew that cutting thru a rust out frame would take
so long, I guess the sand and rocks were not meant to
be parted with a cutting torch. I think I would have had
more luck trying to make glass out of it. HE! HE! HE!
With all the cars that you have done Dave, I bet you've
run in to this before. What a pain in the butt trying to
get all that stuff out of the frame, just to cut it.
Kurt

Wow! Sounds like your's was in worse shape then mine, Kurt!!!! But heck, I don't restore anything anyway!!!!! An access hole and a really good shop vac is a good way to clean out a lot of those hidden places before the cutting commences.... Not unusual to get 20 lbs. of rocks, gravel, sand, and junk out of a car when it comes apart.....

I bought a cage for my 62 Impala from S&W race cars DOM tubing. Not big bucks, just notch and weld in, about $250.00 and that's shipped.:D

Hey Dave; Funny how you said 20 pounds because that's what I figured
that I got out of each side. Right behind the cab is a square type box about
15 inches by 15 inches under the floor. Those boxes acted just like two big
snow shovels, scooping up every thing the car drove over. Then it just
keeped packing it in there till the frame was full and the boxes were full too.
Well I got a glass jar and filled it up with sand from my old stompimg
ground of Las Vegas, which is where the car came from.
I figured if it good enough for Dracula it's good enough for me HE! HE! HE!
Kurt

Well Guys here it is;
I’m glad I have you guys around here to ask my questions.
I was about ready to start cutting when
Dave Severson said make sure you weld in some brasses
to keep it from twisting. So I ended up welding in a big
X across the cab and another across where the top of my tail gate would be.
I hope this helps me but I’ll have to see, other problems popped its ugly head up.
After cutting all the sheet metal out from the floors cab and the bed, I found twisted cross members a 6 inch crack long ways in the frame. There were places the frame was almost rusted thru, And about a foot in from rear of the car the frame was bent down on both sides of the frame! I could not tell from the bottom because of some brasses that were twisted in the way. The bed had so many waves in it that I couldn't tell that way either. But here's the good thing I think when you looked down the sides before it came apart the body lines were perfectly strait, I'm not sure how this could be, but they were. Kurt

Well Mondays come and gone and I still don’t have the frame in the car.!!!
I ran into a little snag while cleaning up the sides of the kick panels where
I was gonna weld the new frame too. Just on the inside of the kick panels
on both side is a 1/8 inch steel plate, that runs from in front of the firewall
to about a foot into the bed of the truck. Well just behind the seat on both
sides are rusted thru. I was thinking why did they rust there on both sides
like that, there is nothing there. Then I remembered on both side there
was these opened front boxes that went straight into the frame, they
acted like snow shovels scooping everything up off the road.
This is why the back half of the frame was packed with rocks, dirt, sand
and probably some road kills. So all that junk laid in there a rotted thru
the insides of the kick panels. So I have to cut that platting out, just behind
the seat, about two feet back into the bed. Then I’ll replace it with some
new steel plate.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurtvara/page2
Kurt

Well I finally got the frame inside the Ranchero today.
It fit just like a glove, thanks to measuring ten times and cutting once.
I’ve got the cab all welded in on both sides, but I have to do some
welding in the back of the car tomorrow.
Then I can cut out the wall behind the cab and the dash.
I also have to fix the back half of the door jam on the passenger side.
Then lots of sheet work to be done along with lower rear skins on both sides.
I was afraid the seat would fall out because the floor was so rusted out.
With all the cross members going every which way there was no way the
seat would have ever fallen out. I think they could have made the car lighter
if they would have just put a solid frame in it.
Thanks Guys for all your help and answering all my stupid questions.
More pictures to come soon.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurtvara/page2
Kurt

Just posted some of the progress on the old Ranchero.
Frame is welded in the car now but I have not got the pictures back yet.
Kurt

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurtvara/

Posted some new pictures of some of the Ranchero progress.
Kurt

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurtvara/

hey did you get the erson cam grind number i sent you ??

I just read it Pat. I just got my computor back up at about 700pm.
Took a lighting hit and burned some stuff up.
I replied to you on the pm.
I guess I 'll be buying a new surg protector. Kurt

I got a few new photo's up I took a while ago but I just got them developed this week.
I have not touched the car since my operation about two months ago.
But I am starting to feel a little better now so it won't be long till I get back on it again.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurtvara/

It's still waiting for you Kurt, don't get in too big of a hurry and don't attack it too hard!!!!!

Hey Dave: I wish I was able to attack it as you say.
It's just not possible for me to right now. I hate that it's taking me so long to do it.
But hopefully the wait will be worth it. Kurt

Well I’ve been feeling a little better since my operation a couple months back so I figured I would go out and do a little work this weekend. Wrong, I didn’t have the stuff I needed to get busy so Monday I’ll take a little trip to my local welding shop for some cutting disc’s and grinding disc’s then to Tampa bay metals for some sheet metal for my rear fenders. Everything below the lower body line needs replaced on the rear quarter panels. I’m not going to worry about the beveled lip around wheel wells just going to make it smooth. I would buy some lower quarters but they are about $500.00 a piece and that’s a little more then I would like to spend on them. My Boxer had pup’s and we started selling them this week. What a pain in the butt people can be. They act like it’s a yard sale and try to talk you down on your price. But I got to give it to my wife; she is stead fast and true. This guy started telling her I’m only going to pay $400 for a puppy, My wives answer not for one of mine, good day. The whole time she was showing him to the door, I was trying to keep from bursting out in load laughter. These are AKC registered Boxers with at least 6 champions on each the Father and the Mothers side of the bloodlines. Then the people say well I’m not interested in the champion blood lines. That one kills me, HE! HE! HE! Then my wife says the pound is right up the street take a left at fulkenburg I’m sure they have a nice dog there they will sell you, if you’re not worried about champion blood lines. It’s almost comical. You would think our add said, dog for sale make a offer. HE! HE! HE!
I think I’ll stick to my cars and she can deal with the dogs. HE! HE! HE! Kurt

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kurtvara/