Thread: steering question

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I am about to start on the steering for my '35 and have some questions. I have a GM column, Unisteer rack and soon to be ordered Sanderson block huggers.

what are the differences between splined and DD shafts, advantages/disadvantages?

at $100+ is a "vibration reducer" nessesary? is it a must have or doesn't make much differnece?

I will most likely be looking at a 3 u joint set up, correct? so I will be needing a support bearing?

any ideas on the best brands and places to buy everything? Borgeson and flaming river come to mind. if I use flaming river parts I will likely order from a cheaper retailer.

Any input? Thanks!

The advantage to the double d type is that you can cut the shafts to length were as the splined shafts have maybe an extra inch on each end to vary the length. On the other hand, I do like the splined shafts because they are a little tighter (less play) than the double d. As far as which brand, I use which ever is the best buy. I,ve never had to use the vibration dampner at all. I'm not sure when that would be needed. If you have that much vibration you probably have a nother problem.

This is just my experience.
Walt

There's some guys that know a lot more than me but I can help on some.

My steering box has a splined shaft on it already, this goes into a u-joint that has double D on the other side. It looks like a solid rod machined flat on each side (two D's back to back). Then another u-joint, DD shaft, support bearing and then the column is 1" DD.

I asked around a lot about the vibration reducer and no one in my city uses them from what I could find. I used the heavy duty polished S/S u-joints but I can't remember who made them. Around here we can't weld any of the steering components so the weldable u-joints are out.

Here's some pictures, but I'm sure one of these smarter guys will help more.

Sean

ok so it sounds like I'll try for splined shafts assuming that when I measure things out I am within an inch or two of the lengths provided. I will plan on no vibration reducer as it sounds like this may be something engineered to sucker some people in.

sgo70- your u joints are polished but the shafts are steel? will you just paint the shafts? I wouldn't mind avoiding polished shafts and u joints to cut costs a little on this part, but I can't find plain steel u joints on Flaming Rivers website? but I guess Borgeson does..

Now I just need to figure out what joint I need for this Unisteer rack. It looks a little strange with three splines then a smooth concave curve then three more splines maybe I can get pics later

thanks guys!

Funny you mention that. I painted my shafts and then the one wouldn't fit through my support bearing, so I sanded it down and put it on. Might have to brush paint it.

Sean

My GM column has splined out put and my MII rack has splined input, but not the same diameters. I will likely convert over to a double D sectional one day but no plans at this time. Cost is usually no different between splined shafts or double D's. Stainless is a lot more expensive than steel for everything, shaft, u joints, supports, vibration dampers etc.

As volksrod said the advantage of the double d is being able to cut to size. With the splined units it's like carpentry...... measure many times, cut once.

I have seen vibration dampers in use, but I don't have one on my car and don't think I have a real need for one either. I know Borgeson has everything in steel or stainless, but I thought Flaming River did as well, but I see that they now only offer stainless and aluminum.

Mine had Mil-Spec universals for years and never had any problems even though they are not street intended. Good enough for airplanes and drag cars, but not for street rods.

I wish I had money to just buy stainless and be done with it so I don't have to try and paint and have it not fit.

so when cutting a splined shaft can you simply cut it off with a cut off wheel and then clean it up?


thank you all

ok so I am going to plan to order 3 u joints and a support bearing and I will assemble them with wooden dowls and measure for the splined shafts.

one last question...should the shaft fit snug all the way into the u joint or have a small amount of play? the set screws might make this not matter so much I suppose

I'm not sure that's a relavent question. Obviously the shaft splines need to be somewhat undersize in order to slide into the joint, but given the amount of surface area any minimal "looseness" is relatively insignificant, and yes the set screws (typically two per) make that moot. Go to this page; http://www.borgeson.com/DESIGN/STEERING%20DESIGN5.html for more thoughts. Note the menu in the grey box to the left for more discussion of other important points of interest.

I think what you're asking is how far into the ujoint the shaft goes....am I right? If so you should go all the way into the collar until it's flush with the inside. You can go slightly longer but too much will interfere with the operation of the u-joint.

Once you get it if you're unsure just post a pic and ask for opinions, these guys are a great help.

Sean

Originally Posted by Evolvo

I noticed that you already have a Unisteer rack. Go to their web site and check out U-joints. They are pricey but I like the "pinch bolt" style for securing to the shaft. Much cleaner looking IMO. They make any combo of spline and DD you might need.
They weren't making these when I bought my rack from them so I have the bulky Borgerson style. I will replace these after I win the Mega Millions tonight!!

maybe I am missing something, but I only see DD u joints on Unisteers website

Jack- I hadn't ever heard of not using an odd number of joints. Anyone have any insite?


Thanks

Originally Posted by 35fordcoupe

maybe I am missing something, but I only see DD u joints on Unisteers website

Jack- I hadn't ever heard of not using an odd number of joints. Anyone have any insite?


Thanks

I always use 2 U-joints if I can just to eliminate the support bearing but most often 3 are needed. I can't imagine what problem could occur with 3 joints. I always time the joints but I'm not sure that that even makes a difference. I can't imagine that there could be an inherent problem with the unisteer. I would really be interested in that article. I've never used one of the unisteer setups but I've often wondered about how much bump steer there is. You would have to run a different panard bar than you would with a conventional vega setup.

Originally Posted by Evolvo

35fordcoupe,

OK, you are missing something!! I just went back and checked unisteer website.

U-joint item# 8050240, is a 3/4-36 (ford) x 3/4 DD.
Translation: accepts 3/4" diameter shaft with 36 spline count on one end, 3/4" DD shaft on the other.

U-joint item # 8050230, is a 9/16-26 x 3/4 DD
Translation: accepts 9/16" diameter shaft with 26 spline count on one end, 3/4" DD shaft on the other.

I will admit they don't make this very clear on the page.

Regards,
Alan

but if I wanted to use splined shafts all the way through I couldn't with those because they are DD on one side

sorry Bob I'm not sure I explained that question well enough - sgo70 I think, sees what I mean though. Basically how far into the u joint does the shaft go. I was wondering if "too far" would interfere with the operation of the u joint and it sounds like it would.

Evolvo - I will check out unisteer today. I hadn't thought to check them...thanks

Originally Posted by 35fordcoupe

sorry Bob I'm not sure I explained that question well enough - sgo70 I think, sees what I mean though. Basically how far into the u joint does the shaft go. I was wondering if "too far" would interfere with the operation of the u joint and it sounds like it would.

Spend a few minutes reading the material in the link I gave to Borgeson, that answer and more is there, line drawings and all.