Spring question.

Hotroddaddy, Glad to see that you can look at options and come to a conclusion.

I sincerly hope that your decision to leave this site is not cast in stone and you reconsider. Everyone is intitled to there opinion even if they are wrong sometimes.

As I refleck on this thread I guess some of the objectors probably see things in other ways. I think that a lot of times not much thought is given for some's opinion at least as those opinions are when it comes to fact vs just a prejudice. For me its really hard to look at the way some things have been done hundreds of times and not see some validity to that way of doing things. But they are probably correct. After all they have decades of experiance the way they tell it. Ackerman Steering Geometry front steering and some of the other problems talked about can not be overcome they I guess are cast in stone and un adjustable, forget the fact that it has been done hundreds of times (AR LEAST) and those problems were in fact dealt with and overcome. Those guys just built unsafe cars.

And for goodness sake don't try and reinvent the wheel as suggested. Hot Rodders have only been doing that sense the 20's and 30's. As a matter of fact reinventing the wheel is really what HoT Rodding is all about-----I thought!! Man I guess I was wrong about that as well.

Best thing you could do I guess is forget this whole Hot Rod thing go and build you a Mustang and only use all Stock parts and don't try anything interesting. Yea man do that.

RS

[QUOTE=jerry clayton;353231]You have shown 4 different cars----I wouldn't ride in any of them!!!!!!Aboit everything they have done is wrong


First of all Jerry, I really don't appreciate the slams to our cars. I'll put up any one of them against anything you have built, for safety, reliability, and workmanship. :mad: You are entitled to your opinion, but to make a broad statement that "everything is wrong" shows how little you really know. I don't care what your background is, to put yourself up on a pedestal really shows a bit of snobbishness on your part that surprises me.

I've made this comment before, there is the perfect world and the real world. There are thousands of cars running around with "wrong" things on them, and somehow they successfully go down the road day after day without problems. Case in point is steering arms out front. Thousands if not millions of T bucket type cars and others are running them this way (two of ours) and I notice NO difference between them and the other rods I have had with "proper" ackermann. NONE. Only when parking is there any hint of scrub, otherwise they go down the road with one hand on the wheel and corner like they should.


We can look at any hot rod out there and find "things" that might be questionable. In 50 years of playing this game I haven't seen one car yet that didn't have one thing that the "experts" would deem engineering wise "imperfect." Somehow they manage to work, and are for the most part safe.

Now, to get back to John's question. Is it the perfect way to get a beam axle under his rod? No. I too think one of the original or aftermarket axles with perch holes on the ends would be easier to use. But I understand his reasons. He is a family man with a budget and is trying to build his car and still keep a roof over his family. Been there, done that, and wouldn't trade one second of those tight financial times for anything in the world. :)

His way of doing it has been done by more than a few people, and his approach is the best way............that is welding up some adapter perches and BOLTING them to the four holes in the axle per side. I do not like the ones where they weld the perches to the axle, but properly constructed bolted on perches are fine. You do get the advantage of later brakes that are already part of the axle. The axle doesn't care if it has one perch hole per side and is using a SoCal suicide mount or if it has a well built home version that bolts to 4 bolts, it will function just as well.

Here is the crux of this discussion as I see it. It is easy for us older rodders to sit back and condemn some idea because it is not what we would do, but we have very short memories. We forget what it was like when we were young, short on funds, and without the benefit of having the well equipped shops we have accumulated over the years. My first one was built on a dirt floored garage, with basic hand tools and very little money to spare. I remember those times, and is one reason I am a member of some rat rod forums. It gives me a chance to try to steer some youngsters in the right direction and avoid mistakes I made. But I have to always remember when suggesting something to them that I am probably dealing with someone who has to scrimp and save to buy that next part, and who needs to cut corners where safely prudent to get to the finish line.


Don

[QUOTE=hotroddaddy;353410]Dave i have always trusted your opinion, but im gonna be stubborn here and im gonna go ahead with my plans! I have to learn on my own and im going to put my life and my families life on my choice! I pray that it does not come to a bad out come!

QUOTE]


Well then, good luck with the build. I tried to point out some of the considerations, but some have to turn it into a personal thing. Sure, it will work, and I hope you build everything strong enough that it can withstand the extra stress...... My suggestion would be to do what we always do, mock the whole thing up and see what it looks like. Then sit back in a chair, open up your favorite beverage of choice, and take a good long objective look at it. If it works aesthetically and mechanically for you, build it. Just don't make the mistake of proceeding with the plan as is if you have any misgivings on how it will turn out....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hombre259

Hotroddaddy, Glad to see that you can look at options and come to a conclusion.

I sincerly hope that your decision to leave this site is not cast in stone and you reconsider. Everyone is intitled to there opinion even if they are wrong sometimes.

As I refleck on this thread I guess some of the objectors probably see things in other ways. I think that a lot of times not much thought is given for some's opinion at least as those opinions are when it comes to fact vs just a prejudice. For me its really hard to look at the way some things have been done hundreds of times and not see some validity to that way of doing things. But they are probably correct. After all they have decades of experiance the way they tell it. Ackerman Steering Geometry front steering and some of the other problems talked about can not be overcome they I guess are cast in stone and un adjustable, forget the fact that it has been done hundreds of times (AR LEAST) and those problems were in fact dealt with and overcome. Those guys just built unsafe cars.

And for goodness sake don't try and reinvent the wheel as suggested. Hot Rodders have only been doing that sense the 20's and 30's. As a matter of fact reinventing the wheel is really what HoT Rodding is all about-----I thought!! Man I guess I was wrong about that as well.

Best thing you could do I guess is forget this whole Hot Rod thing go and build you a Mustang and only use all Stock parts and don't try anything interesting. Yea man do that.

RS

---

You just never miss a chance to start an argument and get your cheap shot little digs in, do you.????? I am speaking from fabricating and building experience on these Hot Rod issues. There are shots in my gallery of many of my builds and projects since I joined CHR a few years ago to back up my "opinions" as you call them... I've also spent a bit of time with the technical education part of this hobby with a bit of engineering school.

Not that I would suggest I doubt your abilities, but I would certainly be curious to see some pics of your current and past build projects. The last "project" I remember you sharing with us was the done car you wrote the big check for......after all, a picture is worth a thousand "opinions".

Geez.... when I first started reading this thread I thought I had made a mistake and gotten on the H.A.M.B! I thought this type of narrow minded, "I am right and you are wrong" thinking was their domain, not one we usually see here. C'mon guys, lighten up.

Hotroddaddy.--I didn't mean to give you bad advise, nor to upset you. I don't know what your past rod building experience is. Let me put it this way. If you are an experienced fabricator with a few "complete builds" behind you, then by all means use the axle you have and fabricate the batwings and spring mounts as I showed them in the 3D model. It will work, and with enough engineering and tweaking can be made to work very well. If however, you are a first time builder and considering doing this because it is cheaper, I don't recomend it. The beauty of using aftermarket pre engineered axles and springs is that they go together with very little fudging or guess work, so are perfect for the new builder. God knows, there are enough things that make your brain explode when building a hotrod from scratch.----don't rush to create more things when you don't have to.

Hotroddaddy---I want to apoligise for any seemingly unjustly stated critique of your plans-----

But these forums are for seeking help on subjects such as you posted---it seems that your mind was made up before you posted, so be it, good luck in your build and please post pics of your progress. I won't say a thing unless you specificately ask me for a comment.

as for the attacks back at me by others------ what can I say????? I won't even defend myself against your efforts to label my solid advise as an opinion----call it what you like but it comes from a long career of working with this stuff and I thought that I was contributing to a persons search for answers or reasons---

Peace be with you

Jerry Clayton

Guys, im sorry if it seemed like i am upset with any of you, and my reason for leaving the forum was a direct result of this thread, that is not the case. I am more upset with myself and my behavier lately.

I have been dealing with personal issues with people in general lately and this thread made me realize that i put too much stock in certain people and i get hurt and upset when they do not react in ways i expected them to. I have been losing sight of what made this hobby fun, and i think part of that has been these forums.

I have realized that i spend to much time and energy devoting myself to the forums and it has made me lazy and i allowed myself to be directed by the online drama.

As a result of this thread i did alot of searches on suspenstion engineering and i have learned great stuff, but that to made me realize that i have became to comfortable with gaining all my knowledge from you guys, and not finding answers myself like i did before i discovered this place. I have spent everyday for close to five years on here. That is why i have decided to take a break. I gave up my mod status on another forum also.

Its time for me to find other ways to spend my time! And it`s time for me to figure things out on my own again!

I will still check in from time to time, but i will not be a regular here for awhile. I still have a huge respect for you guys, and all your advice and opinions will stay with me. I will take all your advice in consideration when i do settle on a design. I might even throw some pics up!

I understand John, sometimes we just have to take a break from things. I'll see you in Daytona though. :):):)

Don