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I couldn't help but notice that there are more and more cars for sale lately. The Michigan auto trader is full of hotrods sports cars most high dollar cars. If they can't afford to keep them who do they think is going to buy them. Just an observation.
It's better to try to sell it than let it go Repo. This is a great time for somebody with money to pick up cars for pennies on the dollar.
Also just an observation, but 9 out of 10 people are still working, so not everybody is busted.Quote:
Originally Posted by cffisher
But nobodys buying it seems:)Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
Yep, for the first time in a long time, Americans are saving again.
Yes Charlie, there are a lot of cars for sale, moreso than in recent years. There's a lot of uncertainty out there. If you've got money, you're often pilloried in the world of politicians and their lap dogs in the media as greedy, mean, yada yada. If you're one of those who think they don't have money you're constantly barraged with the message that you're a victim. Blah, blah, blah. Regardless of where you put yourself in that range the outlook for the future is very cloudy. People with more of a business mentality see a much more intrusive government and are trying to figure out how the game will be played in the future. Some, GE and Walmart for example, are working overtime to suck up to the politicos in the hopes they'll be the favored ones for handouts and favorable legislation (sort of like paying protection money to the mob). They can see that companies such as Goldman Sachs whose employees donated over $1m to the victorious Presidential candidate end up getting TARP money AND having high second quarter profits. Graft pays. But I only paint the politics to underscore the sense of unease those further down the economic ladder who don't have the ability to buy politicians have. Those well off folks are the ones with automotive toys in their garages. The environmental attacks of the CO2 scams, such as Cap & Trade legislation, send a message that future energy costs will be going through the roof. Less sophisticated folk may not share these concerns because they've chosen to not pay attention, but all of these things impact some slice of the market. Enough slices add up to a significant segment of the hobby market. Add in the folks who have or seriously fear job losses, or those who foolishly financed their auto hobby by using their home equity as an ATM machine, and the body of "panic" sellers grows, and the reduction of potential customers shrinks. It COULD be a good time for someone with money to buy in as prices drop, or you could be buying into a dying hobby that will indirectly be killed by political interference.
Certain cars are still doing reasonably well price wise, say a genuine '32 Ford 5 window coupe that has a nostalgia style. Glass '32 roadsters are sucking hind tit. The comparatively limited number of buyers are moving to quality. In muscle cars, Hemi Mopars are considerably down, especially the clones, but even the Camaros, Mustangs and Challengers have softened. Only the rarest of rare ones still stir the wallet at near two year ago prices. Ironically, from what I've heard, rod shops around the country are still plugging along pretty well with lots of projects in the works. My guess would be there are guys who have been sitting on project cars that they think they'd better get done and then enjoy, then sell before the potential worst happens. It'll be interesting to see if my guess on that is right or wrong.
The thing is most of the advertised cars are overpriced for the current market. This is probably a combination of wishful thinking, denial, or ignorance. The ones who are really motivated will keep advertising and lowering their price. I've noticed that a lot. It's not uncommon to see a car sell for $10-20k below starting price. The real joke is the guy who has a car that's been over appraised (happens way more than many realize), and thinks he's discounting from that inflated number, completely ignoring real world comparables. There's a curse purported to be Chinese, but also disputed as to origin, but it goes "May you live in interesting times". We live in interesting times.
Bob, you have been doing some serious thinking there.
I agree these are INTERESTING TIMES its neat to sit back and watch. :)
I was stationed in Germany right after the wall came down, 90. The taxes went from 30% to 50% to help support all the east Germans. At a restaraunt, the owner said, "if I had to spend 1000 marks on anything, I would build the wall higher". The prosperus west German's had to pick up the tab for the socialist east Germans.
I see the government taking from the rich and giving to the poor, kinda like Robin Hood, but bad.
As usual, I see things a bit differently.:whacked::whacked: I came out of the last great debacle (remember Jimmy Carter?) in great shape. Scarfed up some real estate and muscle cars for a song, and sold them for a ridiculously high profit...... Definitely a buyers market these days, though I still see some of the big buck buyers of very high quality cars willing to fork over the big bucks for the really top notch cars.... With all the media hype about everybody being broke and unemployed, we're still so busy at the shop barely have time to turn around....turned down a couple jobs today in favor of some more preferred type work.....
I see a lot of folks buying into the hoopla, as they did in the 80's, and giving up on everything and complaining about how terrible the government is.....Nothing new there, the government been going downhill at a fast rate for better then 40 years now..... Doubt I'll be waiting for any mandated incentives or bailouts to come my way, though a bailout for crippled up, over the hill, pony-tailed radical Hot Rod builders would certainly be welcome!!!!!
As usual, some of my Dad's philosophy seems to be appropriate, "The Lord helps them who help themselves." Getting ahead in the current doom and gloom media hyped economic condition may not be easy, guess if it was easy everybody would show some big gains.... Time again to analyze and adjust one's business practices and lifestyle, and be on the winning side for the next economic upswing.... Or, another of Dad's favortie sayings, "Those who fail to plan must be planning to fail". Just simple old Norwegian wisdom, I don't do well on the long involved theories so I gotta stick with the easy stuff!!!!!
Regardless of which side of the debate you are on there is no denying that a larger percentage of people than there has been in a long time are in financial difficulties. We can skew the ratio to say that 90% of the people are still employed, using the "bottle half full" philosophy, but the 10% that are not working are affecting almost every aspect of our lives right now.
Not sure how it is in some places, but here in SW Florida we see business after business closing their doors. The other night when driving to the shop Dan and I were commenting on how many empty buildings there are and how many "for rent or for sale" signs there are. I'm not talking Mom and Pop stores either, these were well-established business that had been solid as a rock for 20 or 30 years. Each of those closures not only affect the people who own or run that business, but also the many employees who work there.
At work my area is right near the front door, and not a day goes by without some poor individual walking in the door and asking if we are doing any hiring. I really feel for them because a year ago that was me. I was fortunate enough to be able to return to work, but who knows in today's climate how long that will last. My company is owned by one of the largest boat repossessors in the country and business on that side is exploding. Not just 18 footers either..........we are constantly bringing in multi million dollar yachts. The people who lost those are not ones we consider paycheck to paycheck either...........one man put down $ 1 million dollars CASH on his boat and a year later lost it because he couldn't afford the $ 11,000.00 a month payments.
We can also say that the people losing this stuff are to blame because they overspent on their homes or toys, but we were all riding the American Dream of moving on up. This financial mess has made a lot of us go back to basics and rethink laying out money right now. You never know when your turn is coming to lose your job or possessions.
Don
Well, not ALL of us are riding the American Dream of moving on up.... Some of us had the common sense to realize that the days of easy money and easy credit came at a cost...now it's time to pay the fiddler. I know of a few people who went to Florida when the jobs were plentiful and the money was big....I would imagine they've gone elsewhere now. As for the guy who put a million cash down, and $11,000 payments....hmmm, poor planning in there somewhere. Florida and other areas enjoyed the days of big money, and evidently growth beyond a sustainable level. Hope they had fun while it lasted.... Guess I just find it hard to feel sorry for them.... In many parts of the country,like here in the "poverty belt", those of us left with a job and money in the bank sustained the bad times for 10 years before the rest of the country even saw it coming. We didn't do it by trying to outspend the Jones's, buying houses with inflated prices, or taking out mortgages with adjustable rates.... Feel sorry for them???? Nope, been there, done that, learned from my mistakes and moved on....without government assistance......
I spent 22 years in the AF, retired in 06. Got a job as a service tech working a maintenance contract at a home chain. Good job, decent money, flexible hours. Well, we lost the contract end of June, company is closing its doors 28 Aug, 150 unemployed. This week I just got hired working for the parent company part time, hoping to get enough of the others companies work to make it a full time position, but don't know. Anyway, even when you think you have it good the bomb can drop any time. Out of the 10 people in our region I am the only one that has found a decent job so far, and 6 of 10 are retired military, and all can turn a wrench and are computer literate.
A little empathy for the unemployed can go a long way. Many did nothing wrong, did not overspend and are victims of the economy. It's a sad time for America and it will be nice to see the economy recover and get everyone back to work.
This is not the first time the boating industry has been a harbinger. In late 1990 the then Congress did one of it's "tax the rich" schemes (sound familiar?), imposing a "luxury" tax on "yachts", furs, jewelry, high end autos and private aircraft. The people targeted by this tax did what any logical person should guess, they quit buying so they wouldn't have to pay the tax. It almost crushed the boating and light aircraft industries, of course ending up costing those "working people" employed there.
Brings to mind the Santayana quote, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." And that sentence is actually part of a larger quote that, ironically, deals with the notion of change; "Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted, it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in which instinct has learned nothing from experience." The "rich" in the Robin Hood tales were the self annointed aristocrats and their lackeys of the time. They believed themselves to be the smart people destined to lead the "citizens". Actually they overtaxed the people who did productive things for their own benefit all the while telling the serfs what was best for them. I wonder if they called it change?
I have a very good friend that bought several very high quality cars for a song. These are in the best of best shape and most are one of one.
Today, the prices on these cars are way down.
However, we need to remember that the economy is like water, "It will find a way'
Some things always go in cycles, the weather and the economy are two of them.... The simple axiom of buy low, sell high sounds so simple....and right now we are at low times.....hmmmmm
There are a lot of cars for sale but not many buyers out there. I've got an expensive street rod for sale and I've had many offers to trade. People can't sell what they've got so they try to trade into their next toy.
I am seeing many cars selling out here. I know of at least 5 street rods or rod projects that changed hands in the last 3-5 months. Recently I am also seeing more guys spending the $ and moving projects forward. Big change from last year.