Need some advice / direction to begin my project

I have picked up a '72 Camaro roller. I have never done any type of major body work or restoration of any sort.

I need to start and not sure where to begin. I know I need to replace some floor pans, trunk pan and other body panels. Needs a motor and trans also.

I want a basic street car that will see the drag strip on occasion. Not looking for a show-stopper car. The interior will be very basic. I think I will have a dash fabricated out of sheet metal with cut outs for the gauges. Very rudimentary interior with your classic muscle car appearance. No 22" rims with 45 profile tires. I can picture in my mind and have written down what I want the car to look like.

I just need some advice on where to begin. I was going to pull the sub-frame first and rebuild with new bushings and steering components. While out have the steering box rebuilt. Then I was gong to pull the rear and clean it up. Right now it's a 10 bolt, use that until I can replace it or just find a 12-bolt posi to replace while out?

Body work first? Starting with the floor pans etc, them move to the body panels followed by the engine / trans. I have no experience welding but I purchased one for Christmas and am practicing. I figure I can teach myself enough to weld the floor pans in and stuff that won't be seen. I will have a professional fit the body panels and do a paint job, again, nothing with 12 coats of paint and 15 coats of clear. Just a nice appearance.

I have found two books already. The library has one which I am going to review today before buying it. Any suggestions on a specific book or reference?

Thanks in advance for your advice!

Wayne you at least know what the finished product will look like - thta is more than what most projects start out at. So, you know what you now have and you know what it will look like, all you need to do is figure the steps to get from here to there.
It is obvious thta you are going to take the car apart, rebuild some companants and replace others. The only way to do that safely is to document. When we do this type of thing each part that comes off the car gets a picture while it is in place, another picture (and a tag with a part number) right on the floor and a note made in a book about what the part number is. When the pictures are developed they go into a photo album and there is a proper journal created to tye the photo album to the car and the factory shop manual. Why do this? Because you won't be the only one to work on the car, it'll go to a body shop etc and be out of your hands for long periods of time. It will likely be next year befor you start to reassemble and replace the factory stuff. Lots of times even longer. Thta book and photo album will be worth its' weight in gold!
Pick and choose the skill sets that you want to develop and practice - you want to weld, get some tin and have at it - don't learn on your finished product; think about being the electrician? get the tools and learn how to make proper splices, learn somethoery and understand how to read the schematics - don't learn on the finished product.
Ebay and local car corrals are filled with cars where people have learned to weld etc on their first finished product. Wanna be a body man, learn on metal shaping before pounding on your keeper.
Above all, remember that there is no deadline to complete your car by, all hot rods are works in progress and they are never finished.
A successful hot rod has to fulfill three things for the owner - the need for speed is the easist, just get a bigger motor; the technical challange - that is the part about how to learn to weld or metalform; the third is the most difficult - pride in workmanship. If the hot rod doesn't challange you in these three areas then you'll soon get bored and take up bass fishing or golf.
Have fun, oj

I started on my Spirit 3 to 4 years ago and it was supposed to be done by now and guess what, I am a long way from being done. Thankfully, I did something with that project that I had never done before. As I removed nuts, bolts and screws, I put them in zip lock bags, labeled them and threw them in a box. So when I do get to the point of putting it back together, it will be a lot easier.

I did this on my daughter's truck last fall and I did not have to hunt for the appropriate screw or whatever because they were all labeled for me.

Thanks guys! This is the information I am looking for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ojh

...all you need to do is figure the steps to get from here to there.

---

Exactly! OK - so document with pictures and write down details.

Sounds like you do this often or for a living. Is there any particular spot to start? i.e. start with the floor pans, then work out to exterior I assume? Save the sub-frame until later so I can move it easier? If I don't have a grand plan I am just going to make a big mess. :LOL:
Should I remove all the body panels then have it media blasted? When they media blast do they do the interior too? It is completely gutted now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pastor bubba

I did this on my daughter's truck last fall and I did not have to hunt for the appropriate screw or whatever because they were all labeled for me.

---

I think I saw your thread about this. Turned out nice!

Wayne that's is excellent advice from pastor about labelling the bits and pieces as you take apart. Do you have the room to pull the car apart or does it have to remain a roller? As an ex-panelbeater I suggest that you practice with the welder on scapes of panel steel first until confident enough to tackle the floors. I would start on the floors and truck first if the car has to remain a roller.
Whip.

[QUOTE=Wayne Gilchrist;413527]Thanks guys! This is the information I am looking for.



Exactly! OK - so document with pictures and write down details.

Sounds like you do this often or for a living. Is there any particular spot to start? i.e. start with the floor pans, then work out to exterior I assume? Save the sub-frame until later so I can move it easier? If I don't have a grand plan I am just going to make a big mess. :LOL:
Should I remove all the body panels then have it media blasted? When they media blast do they do the interior too? It is completely gutted now.


Yeah, that what i do. You will be amazed at how much space your car will take up when it is apart - consider getting one of those sheds from homedepot as dedicated storage area. As others have said, document everything and catalog the parts. I expect you will take this down to the body tub, start the rebuild with doing the floor pans and trunck floors.
I have used both soda blast and dipping, both have thier downside. Sodablast can't eliminate rust, if you have rst problems and need to weld/replace then you will spend a lot of time getting to clean metal. Dipping removes rust and base metal. I sent a 58buick for dip and it had, i thought so, minimal rust. When it came back if you rolled it on the rotisserie and looked under the car it was like looking in a planitarium - rust pit holes everywhere and the entire floor had to be fabricated and replaced.
Sodablast can be destructive, make sure the guy is experienced - i'm sure you know this but just mentioning it ok?
Other than that, have at it. btw/ be careful with those doors, i think they weight about 120lbs each. It is one of those things where it is late and you'll want to get one more thing done, pop the pins loose and realise you are in big trouble! Have fun, oj

Thanks for the advice.

I will go down on Tuesday to a place ~10 miles from me that is called "Strip It All." I hope it's a body shop - well, for cars I mean...

I'll ask them what they want. I assume I can strip it down to the "tub" and leave the rear diff and sub-frame so it can be moved. Have them blast the interior and roof. Then when I get it back I can start on the floor pan and trunk. I assume if I leave all the old sheet metal they will blast it all and charge for it. Since it will need to be removed anyway, just get rid of it and start with a clean slate.

That's is my thought process for now; when the floors and trunk are done, then finish the body, paint, then worry about the drivetrain and engine last. My interior will be very basic.

The tub is basically the firewall, floor, doors, roof and the reinforcements around the door - correct?

Any good references to find? I've heard a lot about the factory manuals from GM. Do I need this or is there something else?

Anybody want to give me a list of what tot do first? Not sure where to begin.

Should I strip it down to the tub first? Then have it blasted to see what else needs to be replaced?

The place I found to blast it uses a "plastic media" they say it won't distort - I'll have to ask them how it is on rust. Anybody have a ballpark figure on that - I know it differs a bit through the country but roughly?

I guess I should leave the sub-frame and rear diff in since I need to be able to move it around. So I will save rebuilding them for last.

I assume when it comes back from media blasting I will need to put a coat of something on it to prevent surface rust. Suggestions?

Then I can start closing up the firewall and smoothing it out.

Next body panels and paint.

Then pull the sub-frame and rebuild, then the rear end, then worry about the drivetrain lastly.

Does this sound like a good approach? I am a list person and need it set out for me and be sure my thinking is correct.

Thanks guys.

Take a bazillion pictures of it before you remove anything. Shoot from every angle, every bolt, every bracket, etc, so you know how things go back together. We have taken a laptop to the shop and used the pictures we took to help us remember how the stuff we took off 6 months ago were originally supposed to go. I can't stress enough that these pictures and any drawing and subsequent pictures you take as things come off will be a lifesaver to you down the road.

Also buy a new college type notebook and begin a build book of all the parts you buy, with part numbers. Make a page for engine, one for front suspension, one for rear suspension, etc. 5 years from now when you need a new ball joint you will have the part number written down right there so you don't have to guess. Also, keep all your receipts, it sure helps should you decide to sell the car later.........new buyers love this stuff. As part of the build book I like to put pages labeled "Things to do 2/1/11" There I list what I need to do to finish up one aspect of the build, like the front suspension. As I finish those individual tasks I draw a line through them.........it is like a little reward at the end of the work day and lets me see what progress I have made, and what is left yet to do.

Don

I agree with starting the book Don except instead of "things to do 2/1/2011" it seems more like "lets see how many weeks/months it takes me to finish this page". My new response when someone asks me how my day on the car went is "I got more done than if I hadn't worked on it.." :LOL:. Which is true...everytime I come across a problem and go backwards for the day I likely would have had to encounter that set back eventually :o. The book does help organize things to do and buy, research, etc.

Yeah, I just put the date on there to show what day I wrote that page. Then I can look back 6 months later and see I didn't get a darned thing done.:o:LOL:

Don

After reading those last posts I'm not feeling very encouraged! :LOL:

Does my thought process seem correct though?

I found a book at the library "The Complete Guide To Auto Body Repair" by Dennis Parks. It seems to have some good info in it.

I'm fairly new to the hobby, but I've learned a few things along the way. If you are planning a full restoration then yes, I would strip the car down to a bare shell leaving it so you can roll it around. Have it blasted then use epoxy primer. Once you know what you have left start on the major body work and panel replacement, but I wouldn't finish the body work and definately wouldn't paint it until you get everything sorted out and mocked up. You don't want to be fumbling around the car with fresh paint. Basically build the car then take it back apart for final body work and paint :HMMM:. You also don't want to end up with a torn apart car with fresh paint then take a break for finacial reasons and just have to let it sit. If you wait on paint and interior you can have fun driving a little and work out the bugs before tearing it back down for paint.

As you get sick of doing body work you can switch to cleaning up old suspension parts or ordering and assembling new ones, building the engine, or doing any one of plenty of odds and ends, etc.

Another good book (actually kinda the bible) is 'Metal Bumping' by (something, Frank?) Sargent. It was written back in the forties and the info is timeless, it'll show you how to move the metal around so that you just use a skim coat if any filler at all.
It is obvious that you want to do as good a job as possible, you really don't want to tackweld a patch panel and slather it over with fillers - that won't get you bragging rights will it, it'll just get you the car that you wouldn't want to buy. Some of the more recent bodyworking books detail more modern techniques working with adhesives and high tensile steel, these techniques are acceptable for 'industry standards' but you are working on a hot rod and it is all about craftsmanship. When you spring for a Martin body hammer and dolley and use it for the first time you will recongize that it is a fine instrument and not just an expensive hammer. For the next couple years you'll kearn to get good enough to use that hammer. And that is what hot rodding is all about.

one suggestion I make to everyobody that aks my opinion about projects like this; if at all possible take a little time and play with it, try to at least get it running and drivable, if if it only goes around your block! That way you at least have a "feel" for driving the car and get motivated and have something real to think about for your end result! I didnt take my own advice on two "projects" and after the enevitable delays came up and a loss of motivation i wound up looking at the cars as just broke down cars tyhat have never ran and I poured a ton of money into..ended up selling both! My elky had a bad exhaust leak and PS pump was shot, on top of trans being out! I swapped in a worn TH350 and got it running around the backroads and stayed pumped waiting to get that feeling of driving it again!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ojh

Another good book (actually kinda the bible) is 'Metal Bumping' by (something, Frank?) Sargent. It was written back in the forties and the info is timeless, it'll show you how to move the metal around so that you just use a skim coat if any filler at all.

---

That book is "The Key to Metal Bumping - An Instructive Manual of Body and Fender Repair Practices by Frank T. Sargent" and is available from Amazon. I understand it can also be downloaded as an e-book but I'm not sure of the source.