2nd shop gathering, metal shaping

We are getting together on the 20th for the 2nd of three wintergatherings at my shop. These gathering are free, any professionals in attendance are requested to refrain from any active self promotion of products or services.

This session will include basic metal shaping by Robert McCartney (metal shaper of the month, All Metalshaping web site), Robert will demo what you can do with basic hand tools, tech will include shrinking, stretching, planishing. Tom Mancuso, an old school metalman, will demo joint leading. John Herold (corvette restorations) will discuss surface prep for paint, inclu different etching & epoxy primers, filler primers etc. I will demo some basic welding with the tig and those interested are asked to bring a shield and they can try thier hand at it. I'll also demo fusion tack weld and butt seam welding without filler as applied to body panels and how to minimize distortion.

I'll open shop around 8am, people show up 9ish for coffee and donuts, the demos begin at 10ish, we'll have a deli style lunch and continue until we feel like going home.
This is all about a bunch of deliquent hot rodders getting together, share some knowledge and have fun doing it. I hope you can make it, my shop is Clarke Co. Speed, Berryville VA, about 15 miles of rt81 near Winchester. Shop phone is 540-955-0479 email is ojh4@verizon.net
We are looking for an ignition guy for the March session.

Sounds like fun and it's nice of you to open your doors to guys like us! Too bad you aren't closer or else I'd be there for every gathering you guys held!

Wish you could come, check in your area i bet theres plenty of like minded guys and enough talent so you can start your own gatherings.

Maybe next year - we are looking to relocate somewhere near Rocky Mount in Franklin or Bedford County in the next few months (well, maybe. I said that last year too:HMMM:)

I am seriously considering joining you guys, maybe with my dad. I know next to nothing about any of that and it sounds like fun :cool: What was covered in the first session??

That is very stand upish to offer anyone some insight to how to work, bend, weld & paint metal at no charge.

WOW ...what a concept - people helping people without a personal goal in mind.

I wish I had the extra time.

KUDOS.

Ratty 46

Thanks for the kind comments guys, i appreciate them.
35fordcoupe, come on up - we really have a great time, not a know-it-all in the bunch. The last session focused on engine assembly, esp cam timing, degreeing, locating tdc, useing dial indicators etc to verify lobe lift, duration, proper opening and closeing etc.

I am personally excited about the metal shaping gathering, i don't know if any of you guys have seen metalshaping but i watched a guy (this was a few years ago and have been hooked ever since) take a chunk of 18ga metal and with a stump, hammers, english wheel he made a front fender for a willys coupe. It took him a couple days but it was perfect down to the headlight opening.
Robert is not going to teach how to do that, he could but the lessons would be lost on us because we don't have the fundamentals. He is teaching the fundamentals. Shrink, stretch and planish. Imagine the old tinsmith, he has some hammers, stump and little else and they would take a flat piece of metal and turn it into a tea pot. You do that by shrink, stretch and planish.

Ojh,

CRUD!!!! I was going to try and make it but just looked at mapquest. It is a nine hour drive one way. That means a total of three days, two round trip and the full day there. I am not going to totally give up on it yet but won't know until later in the week.

Ed

Hurst01, i admire your enthieusasm but it is a long way. How about this, if you are in area - anytime - give me a call. I'll set aside what i am doing and we can spend all the time necessary metal shaping and screwing up metal like professionals.

I certainly appreciate that. I am a Journeyman Machinist and Certified Welder. I was Certified with the Air Force in 6 different metals using TIG. I am also certified in oxyaccetylene, MIG and stick. I don't do lap joints on cars, I butt-weld. I can pretty much cut a piece of metal out and weld it in place, change quarters and the like. Problem Is that I suck on shrinking and stretching and mud work. I have a shrinker/stretcher that I use on thin and small stuff but I need to gain some knowledge in other areas, like how to get oil canning out of a door, and shape other areas to suit my needs.
I don't like to use much mud, just a skim coat. I waste 4 times more than I need. I thought it might help to get some ideas on how to straighten some areas that I am not good at, and there are plenty of them.
I saw where you mentioned that someone made a fender from scratch. I saw just a bit of a program on TV a while back where there was a crew of about 5 really sharp metal workers that made a complete body for a 32 Ford Coupe in 5 days, fenders and all. It was straight as an arrow and all the sheet metal was just flat sheets when they started. I was thoroughly impressed. I don't have a clue on how to use an English wheel. I was hoping to learn something.
I am a totally disabled Vet and with all of my problems my years are numbered. I like to think that I have a lot of knowledge but sometimes I see how really "unskilled" I am in some areas.
I was hoping that you would be within 5 hours of me. I would have definitely made it it if that was the case. I was still trying to determine how I could do it but that is a long way and the expense of the travel and lodging tops it off. I can't tell you how disappointed I was when I brought it up on mapquest and it said 8 hours and 56 minutes.:CRY:
The idea that you are hosting the work shop for the forum members is amazing. I like to see when others share their skills and how-tos and I for one appreciate what you are doing. I have done somewhat the same on welding, but find that most are not really serious about taking the time to learn. They want to do it RIGHT NOW and it does not work that way.
Maybe some day I can get around your way and we can swap a lot of lies.:LOL:

I screwed up and didn't make it to Dutch Comstock's get together this yr.Well maybe I will meet up with them this spring because I have some work I want them to do for me.They are about 2 1/2 hrs away from me.

Hurst01, you sound like a pretty talented guy - i bet you'll get a warm welcome at 'All Metalshapers.com'.
1gary, you missed a great metalmeet. I couldn't make it myself but attended Gatormeet just befor Dutchs'. Ben came over from Holland and at that meet thy chopped the top of a 53ish pickup - in 2 days, no body filler!

Here's some of the pictures of OJ's meet. Although I got these pictures of Tom doing the lead demo, and Dave doing the shrinking disc demo, I missed getting anything of that guy making metal scraps. :D But I am supposed to have more emailed to me, so I can post those when I get them.


Two flanged panels were tuck shrinked to form a radius. This was to simulate the leading edge of hood halves being welded together and leaded.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture001.jpg

Tom using tinning butter on one half and plumbers flux (liquid) with solder on the other, to demonstrate the differences.... The liquid flux tends to get down into cracks better, for a better flow of the body lead.

Adding the lead, pushing it into the joint...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture003.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture005.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture006.jpg


Rather than use a wooden paddle and tallow, Tom prefers a vintage soldering iron that uses external heat (the torch in his other hand) It seems to do a better job of managing the heat and the "puddle". Even though he claimed he hasn't leaded anything in ten years, it was like old hat to him.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture008.jpg




http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture011.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture012.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture015.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture017.jpg


After our "hood" had a chance to cool, he demonstrated leveling the area with the vixen file.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture020.jpg



Our completed sample


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture024.jpg


I think Tom enjoyed another crack at flowing some lead....

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture025.jpg


Got some pictures during the break of some of the vintage tin outside....


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture027.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture029.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture028.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture031.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture030.jpg


Back inside for more work on metal, Dave gives a demo using the shrinking disc.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture036.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture037.jpg

Thanks again OJ! I appreciate you taking the time to open your shop up to everyone. It was hard to pull myself away from a day working on my car, but I knew I'd learn a thing or two that would stick with me for a long time! :cool:

It was a great time, nothing quite like watching and listening to a couple master craftsmen - very impressive. It was so good a definative DVD should have been made, i would buy a copy.
One thing i got from it was that there were a lot of younger guys, they were passionate about learning and asked the most questions. I have had these fears that ours was a dying hobby, NSRA is full of greybeards and nobody is coming along to replace them. I get the feeling we'll be in good hands.
And that Chrysler? be sure to invite that guy to any of your events, he makes a killer brownie!
Thanks, oj

Man wish I could go -
I welded heavy metal for years - 25 years ago. Now I'm re-learning sheet metal MIG butt welding as I replace my Nova quarters and tail panel.

I only get ONE shot at it - one is done - one to go. Having issues with a tight enough fit and enough heat to have the weld lay down correctly. So on the first panel welds were cold and lots of grinding. But its stuck :-). Just now as much back side penetration as I know there should be.

All said and done - its coming together . . .

I'm thinking about spacing the quarter 1/16 low at the inner wheel well when I doing the cutoff wheel fit. Then fit it tight, to elininate the gap. All the gap is on the top edge, except for where it fits vertically at the door pilar.

I'm also running into some factory lead work (and brass braze tacks) on the corners where the tail panel ties in. Thats a whole other issue to tackle later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ojh

It was a great time, nothing quite like watching and listening to a couple master craftsmen - very impressive. It was so good a definitive DVD should have been made, i would buy a copy.
Thanks, oj

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x2 on this. I would love to go to one of your gatherings, but it's just too far away. If you do a DVD next time, I would also buy a copy.

fun fun . back 30 years ago i did abit of lead work still have body work on my cars with lead i did .nice to see some one cares about the old way .not many do.. there s many bondo jockys out there. i did get a call from the boat yard they knew i leaded .they wanted me to lead a sail boat keel over head i did get it to stick there was abit on the ground :) they bang it pulling it out of the slip and crack the lead

Hi Nova,

I am sure by now that you have discovered that welding sheet metal is a whole lot different than structural steel. Basically, instead of running a solid bead you have to do stitch welding every few inches. After you get to the end you will have to go back and stitch weld between those every so many inches. Keep the welds going between the stitches until it pretty much fills up between them. Of course, when you say MIG welding, I am assuming that you mean with the use of gas. The flux core wire sucks. There is only one good place that I can think of for using flux core wire and that is to hold the trash can liner in the bottom of the can.
I always weld with .023 wire. .030 wire takes too much heat and burns through too easily. With .023 you can always turn the wire feed up to compensate if necessary whereas using .030 you can't and it takes more heat which will warp the metal worse and get a nastier looking weld because of trying to keep the heat low enough to keep from burning through. In certain instances I have found that I can weld a steady bead for maybe an inch (sometimes more) and let it cool while working farther on down the seam. Problem is, longer beads= more heat. More heat= more warpage.
It always helps if you have room to work the weld to take the stress out of it. In my younger days I always used to braze the sheet metal but the flux sometimes caused problems later on while trying to paint if you didn't get I all off. You will see most body shops use a MIG welder. I haven't seen anyone actually use Oxyaccetelyne in body work with mild steel since I was a kid but I see it is recommended for doing automotive sheet metal. Mostly because the MIG welds with about 10,000 PSI tensile strength and the gas welding is much softer and more workable.
Another thing I am sure that you have noticed, when butt-welding steel of any size at all you will typically leave a gap between the two base metals the diameter of the filler rod. You can't do that with MIG because it will blow away. You will have holes everywhere. You probably knew all this anyway.

i have butt welded many times with a mig but i use .030 wire if dial in it works fine fit up has to be dead on not for first timers so stick with .023 i was thinking back 30+ years ago up in the middle of a panle gas welding it not think to much about it that was the only way we had . alot of wet rags not sure i would want to do it that way now when done we use a wire wheel we called then mule skinners that would get the glas like fux off after brazing

Yeah, old geezers like me (I am not going to include you but you may be:LOL:) used gas welding because there was nothing else. I learned to weld at 13 years old with acetylene by welding beer cans together end-to-end. After about welding 10 of them together my Dad would take them and strike them against the ground. If they broke he would tell me to do it again. I remember I was all grins when he finally struck them against the ground and they would not break. It was a real bear learning to weld something as thin as a beer can without burning it up.
When I bought my MIG welder it came with a roll of flux core wire. I hooked it up and started welding with it. I went about two inches, took the roll of flux core off the welder and threw it in the trash and went to buy a argon tank.
Personally, I like to use .023 wire. I can always turn the wire speed up if needed. .030 wasn't so bad on the older cars but the newer ones have such thin sheet metal it is hard to keep it from burning through. I have no problem filling in a burn hole. I can fill in a 1" hole easily without plating it. I have always had a tendency to burn hot but I move faster to compensate. While in the Air Force I had to certify on aluminum, inconnel, titanium, stainless, mild steel and two others. I had to weld samples that were .030 thick. I learned to move along. One bit of hesitation and there was a hole, and of course, a failure on the test. I had to certify in MIG, TIG, stick and gas. I also certified with low hydrogen on structural steel. I used to be pretty fair, but I am slowing down these days. I was an Aircraft Machinist but I was also required to be certified in welding. It was part of fabricating parts. It was also handy if I had my head up my rear and cut a part down too far, I could weld it up and machine it back down again.

well how old is old ? i am 47 i pick up my first gas welding set when i was 12 still have it before that i leaded with a propane torch . i had one of the sears torch setups that you burned a solid pug of some thing you put in a tube that you used along with propane that you could gas weld with . at work i did body tin and structure work were i welded many cars slice and dice s and had all the state paper work along with it. i hanged alot of tin and was still doing it for guys in town till i sold my wire welder . last thing i welded was a box side on a.2003 ford pickup so yep i know all about the thin stuff :) its getting thinnner :D

47???? You are practically still wearing diapers:LOL:. I just turned 64. It don't seem that I should be that old except that nothing works as it used to and I hurt a whole lot more. Good chattin with you Pat.

Ed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hurst01

47???? You are practically still wearing diapers:LOL:. I just turned 64. It don't seem that I should be that old except that nothing works as it used to and I hurt a whole lot more. Good chattin with you Pat.

Ed

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well hell i have the body of a old man feels like a got threw in a bag and beat with a bat every day. that is why i left doing body work:o thats why i am on here not many can put up with my raw mood with out pain killers. sorry about stepping all over your post ojh

Great feedback guys . . .

Quote:

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Of course, when you say MIG welding, I am assuming that you mean with the use of gas. The flux core wire sucks.

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Yep - got gas now. I actually DID weld the trunk pan successfully with .30 flux core. But it was NOT easy. I had to try it - and quickly realized it was not going to do an acceptable job on outer panels.

Quote:

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... typically leave a gap between the two base metals the diameter of the filler rod. You can't do that with MIG because it will blow away. You will have holes everywhere.

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Actually on the first quarter, I had a gap equal to the cutoff wheel or slightly larger. I had to weld it colder than I liked to prevent blowout.

I gonna try to tighten that gap up on the second.

SBC, if you started with a machine set up with flux core and then converted to gas and solid wire, you'll need to open up your machine and swap the leads (the + and -). The machine should be set at the factory where the Flux core burns before the base metal, essentially to create your shielding cloud first. Due to this polarity setup, weld penetration suffers. When swapping to argon mix, there is no longer a need to burn the wire first, and reversing the leads will thus also improve the weld penetration.

Next, sheet metal is a totally different animal than welding up the thicker steels. Probably the most effective method is either TIG or Gas weldiing, using no gap, and no filler, for a strictly fusion welding process. Speed is your friend here, and since my TIG machine is not very effective/responsive on the lower amperage settings, I have relegated myself to using the MIG until such time as I can get a better replacement. Although most people have a mig in their home shop, the disadvantage over the previous two mentioned methods would be the extra consumables needed for dressing the welds, the particulate introduced into the air (breathing protection needed), and what some refer to as a harder weld that is especially prone to cracking. I'd be curious to see the quality of weld that they are having these cracking issues with, and I will say that I have never had any issue with cracking, and I am using a full penetration weld.

I think you'll quickly find that the tighter your butt joint is, the less chance you have of blowing holes. For 18-19 ga sheetmetal, I use a "dot welding" method, of only welding one dot at a time. Next, your heat setting used should be determined by the obtaining of a full penetration weld when welding the dots. If you don't get a full penetration weld, and it just looks like the bead is sitting on top of the metal, your heat is not sufficient. By the time you grind the welds down there will be little holding your patch in and a year or so of road vibration will undo all of your hard work. Now, if you do find you are still blowing holes, before turning down the heat, increase the wire feed. It's like this, if you have enough heat to perform the weld but not enough filler going in, somethings gotta give, hence a blowout. The less the gap, the less the chance of a blowout. Wider gap = more weld filler = more heat = more shrinking = your panel just moved from where you wanted it. Any welding operation you do will cause shrinking, holding a gap isn't going to change that. As far as the TIG welder, they seem to be even more prone to blowing out holes, where a very tight gap is almost a neccessity.

Now, using a hammer and dolly, planish out the weld dots as you go, this should help to counter the shrinking effects from the heat from welding, and then grind the proud of the weld dots off from both sides. I like to use a 1/16 cutoff wheel perpendicular to the weld. It has less contact patch than any other grinding method, so less heat buildup. (Stop just above the metal surface, and it can be dressed flush later with a 3" roloc) This will get the dots out of your way for welding and then planishing the next set of dots. If you were to strike some of the previous dots while trying to planish subsequent ones, you'll be moving the panel causing waves and distortion. Planish and grind as you go, and it helps keep the panel straight and in check. And just like Prell, lather, rinse, repeat. Here's a link to a pretty good thread on welding sheet metal patches, I think with your welding background this stuff will be old hat for you in no time...

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=53534

I did change the polarity for solid wire.
Looks like I only got partial penetration.
Guess I could weld the back side where penetration is lacking?
Or do you think what is shown is adequate.

http://www.clubhotrod.com/forums/att...7&d=1298486363


For the most part it does have good weld penetration. If I were to guess, I would say not grinding down some of the welds between tacks may be acting as a heat sink for the next one. You'd now need more heat to get the same weld penetration, especially if the panel had cooled any substantial amount. The more mass you have there, in essence you're now welding thicker metal. To check it, I'd do any final sanding/grinding across (perpendicular) the joint, so if a spot is needing to be re-welded the crack (butt joint) will more readily appear and not be hidden in sanding scratches. Also, shine a spot light from the outside and view from inside the panel. It should show you really quick if something needs a touchup.

Here's one I did on a trunk weatherstrip channel replacement. (This is one I planished after the fact) It does show a couple misses there about an inch in from the left end of the weld, but the with consistency of the remaining welds, and not showing any light with the spotlight test, I felt comfortable leaving as is.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...Picture178.jpg

NICE - I think you're right about grinding the welds. Its the last tack between 2 previous welds that is not penetrating properly.

AND - rather than continueing next to the previous tack, I was welding midway between two existing welds. Its the last gap that didn't tie in like it should have.

Thanks for the feedback!

Good stuff guys! HooBoy, not exactly sure what i'm looking at Nova. One reccommendation is to spend a little extra time getting the metal nice and clean, even the back side.

To expand on the pictures from OJ's event this past weekend, here is an online friendly tech thread on shrinking that should have prefaced the lead demo.


I didn't get as many pictures this past weekend (too many hammers in my hands) so this will be supplemented with some diagrams and previous pictures so we can make a good tech thread. But as a consolation prize, I am told a video made of the event is forthcoming.

Prior to Tom showing the body lead demo, I needed to make some panels for him to work from. We decided that a curved surface, similar to the front end of a 38 Chevy and its hood halves, would be a better fixture for showing the need for flowing lead up a slight incline. I started with two equal sized panels, and bent a flange on the long edge. Then discussed some of the issues faced when shrinking a flange. For demonstration purposes, in the following example we have a 12" long panel with a 1-1/2" wide flange.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...angedPanel.png

If we were to look at the same panel with a radius, formed by shrinking the flange, we would note dimensions similar to as follows:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...angedPanel.png

....where the 90 degree bend at the flange still retains its 12" length, the centerline of the flange in this case is shortened by almost an inch, and the outer edge of the flange shortened by almost another inch.

In working with the Lancaster/Eastwood style shrinker-stretcher machines, it is important to note that they are a linear device, the movement they introduce into the metal is in a straight line.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...hrinkDemo1.png

So that once a radius starts to form, and with the shrinking device still moving in a linear fashion, the outer edge of the flange will be put into tension as the centerline shrinks. Anyone who has used these devices will have seen this as the machine starts to lose its effectiveness.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...hrinkDemo2.png

To counter this effect, we need to shrink the outer edge of the flange more than the inner. By simply alternating the depth of the shrink as shown, you can provide more shrink to the outer edge and the device will become more effective.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...hrinkDemo3.png

Another method of shrinking is with the use of tucks. Looking at their shape, the tuck has a wider "gather" at the edge of the flange as compared to the inside bend of the flange, so this eliminates some of the tension issues seen in the mechanical shrinker.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...hrinkDemo4.png

Where the demos this past weekend were supposed to concentrate on using only hand tools so that the participants could readily duplicate the results without the need for a major purchase, we did find the use of the Shrinker a good comparison, and by chance the tuck shrinking did prove to be faster and more effective.

For the tuck shrinking, one can use tucking forks, rounded jaw pliers (by design or modification) or special designed devices. As an example, here is a set of tucking forks I made out of some scrap metal and 5/8 bolts turned down.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture078-1.jpg

And a pair made from needle nose pliers..

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture053-1.jpg

Probably the biggest challenge with their use is producing consistent tucks. To produce a flowing, consistent radius, we should start with consistent tucks, both in size and the spacing between them.

I decided to make a pair of tucking pliers out of Vice Grips, as the jaw adjustment on them would prove to give repeatable sized tucks.

We'll start off by finding a pair of vise grips suitable for the job, which in this case means the jaw serrations are starting to wear and round off and won't grip much of anything else. Finish what has started by removing the serrations to produce a nice flat jaw on the bottom, and cut the top one off at about 30 degrees from its original position.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture001-3.jpg


I had some extra long shouldered 3/8 bolts, perfect round stock for the job. Three of them were cut off to 1-1/2" length.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture003-3.jpg


Here's my economy model lathe made by Dewalt...


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture004-3.jpg


To set the spacing for the "fingers" the first is clamped in the vise grip jaw, centered.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture007-2.jpg


The outer is placed next to it and then welded down the outside, center finger removed, and then welded down inside. Here we should leave a slight gap of your sheet metal thickness to prevent any binding, which will allow a deeper tuck.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture008-2.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture009-2.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture010-2.jpg


Repeat for opposite side, then weld center finger.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture011-2.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture012-2.jpg


Note in the above picture the 30 degree cut of the upper jaw positions the center finger at an angle compared to the bottom fingers. It is this angle that will help to form the tuck's shape.


Of course I took my favorite anvil along to the meet, here clamped in the vise..


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...t/SL371399.jpg

Again our object in this case is consistency, so equally spaced marks are placed on the flange, identical tucks made at each mark, and you can see the consistent radius along the panel.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture014-2.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture016-1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture018-1.jpg


I use a O/A torch to heat the tucks prior to hammering them flat. Others prefer to not use heat, and can capture the tuck and flatten it very effectively without it. I am still working on this proficiency, so in the meantime, I use heat. We're looking for something like this, prior to hammering.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...cture021-1.jpg

Here OJ assists with torch duties...

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...t/SL371372.jpg

Another point to mention is that the hammering action tends to also spread the tuck back apart if not captured effectively. Where the picture above doesn't show it well, a good means of overcoming this would be to clamp a strap of metal across the ends of the newly formed radius prior to hammering, similar to this:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...ng/Tucks-1.png

Then the hammering force will be more effective in flattening the tuck back into itself.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...t/SL371373.jpg

Once each piece was completed separately, the flanges were aligned back to back and the two pieces tacked together. Each had an identical radius, for a good fit. Consistency pays off!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...t/SL371374.jpg

And that, my friends, is how it is done! I have many books, been to seminars and purchased videos but this is the best explanation of tuck shrinking i have seen. Thanks for taking the time to post it Robert.

I enjoyed your demos, thanks for posting Robert!

I even made it in a picture..that's me in front of the Impala with the Powerade :cool: