Cam won't just slip out.

I've been tearing down the 351 roller cam motor I bought for my Mustang and tonight when I tried to remove the cam it wouldn't slip out like every other cam I have ever removed in my life. In fact, I had to put a pair of vice grips on the snout and it was hard to turn.

I have everything removed, lifters, distributor, the plate that keeps the cam in, so I know it isn't anything like that, and I have done enough cams to know that part isn't holding it. What I was able to do was make a quick puller that utilizes the 3/8 bolt that goes into the center of the cam and by tightening it down I got it to move out of the first set of bearings, but when the journals started to enter the bearings for the next portion of the move, it stopped dead.

I am not worried about getting it out, I will buy some 3/8 all thread tomorrow and fashion a longer puller to bring it out the rest of the way, but I would like to know how the bearings got so tight on the journals. Have any of you run into this before?

The rest of the engine looks machinable, it is a Ford reman engine and is already bored 40 over, but the machine shop says 60 shouldn't be a problem, especially since it will be a mild engine. The mains and rod bearings and all the crank journals look good, so I don't think the tight cam created any problems that way. I will be running a different cam with new bearings, so that part doesn't worry me.

Oh, as I was pulling the cam with my puller a very thin ring of the number 4 cam bearing came out with the cam, like the bearing was too small and I had pulled the edge of the bearing off. Any ideas?

Thanks guys.

Don

Yikes, never encountered that Don, but I've only rebuilt a few engines, I'm sure Pat and Jerry will be more valuable here!

Yeah Steve, usually you have to watch because they want to fall out on their own almost. I don't know if the bearings got installed crooked or what.

Don

cam was digging in to the cam bearing s wear from many miles dirty oil heavy build up were bearing are not on the cam lack of oil heat many miles of hard use

That makes sense, Pat, The oil was really dirty and this engine was in an F350 truck that worked hard. I guess you have seen this before on the engines you have torn down? And I also guess new cam bearings and a new cam and lifters will correct it?

The funny part is that the rods and mains look fine.

Thanks for the info.

Don

yes i seen sticky cams carb cleaner helps if just varnish, best to check lifter bore for slop in bores can be check with a lifter see how much play you have

Thanks Pat. I'm hauling it to the guy who did Dan's motor, probably tomorrow. I'll have him check that out.

Don

Did you remember to pull the fuel pump pushrod out?

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Originally Posted by BlownCenturion

Did you remember to pull the fuel pump pushrod out?

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fords do not used them :)

Yep, Chevys do, Ford's don't. Everything is removed it is a bare block with just the cam in it now. I've played with Fords for a while so I know what needs removed and the sequence, and was super surprised when I went to turn the cam over and it was hard to turn. I put a long bolt in the end to use as a handle, expecting to be able to just pull it out as I always have done, but it wouldn't budge. I made a quick puller and got the cam to pop loose of the bearings enough to come out to where the journals now start engaging the next set of bearings and that is where it stopped again. So today I have to pick up some allthread to make a longer puller to get it out the rest of the way.

Pat's explanation is exactly what is going on. Not sure of the exact cause but some metal was formed into a lip on the cam bearings over time. When I used the puller that very thin ring of bearing came out and was wrapped around the cam. It was thin like a piece of wire but it was evident where it had come from.

I would guess guys like Pat and Jerry who tear engines down on a daily basis have seen this before, but it was a new one on me. There was also a lot of slop in the timing chain (a double roller) maybe from it having to work hard to turn the cam in it's bound up condition.

Don

Don,
Years ago I bought 5 327 small blocks, for my race car while tearing down all of them I ran into the same thing the cam wouldn't come out of one block. I left alone so when they hot tanked the motor the bearings melted and the cam fell out.
BradC

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Originally Posted by BradC

Don,
Years ago I bought 5 327 small blocks, for my race car while tearing down all of them I ran into the same thing the cam wouldn't come out of one block. I left alone so when they hot tanked the motor the bearings melted and the cam fell out.
BradC

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yep you can do that but for $1000. they will haul the wast out of the hot tank and it cost about $500 to put the caustic soap this is the nasty stuff you can get any more.get any in your eyes do not plan on useing them if lucky you may see out of them . let me tell you i learn this the hard way when the tank stop cleaning that stuff will eat alum but kills the soap very fast. bars leak hurts the charge as well

I can get it out tonight, I'm sure. I only quit last night because it was getting late. My homemade puller will do the trick I bet.

Don

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Originally Posted by Itoldyouso

I can get it out tonight, I'm sure. I only quit last night because it was getting late. My homemade puller will do the trick I bet.

Don

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put the top gear back on the cam use two pry bars under the gear and block . set block on bell housing so cam gear is facing the sky spray some oil on cam turn the cam with cam bolt abit then pry turn and pry and turn cam and pry... you get this it is a trying prying thing ..... it will come out this is the best way trust me :)

See I knew Pat would have some good way to do this! Pat your a great resource!

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Originally Posted by stovens

See I knew Pat would have some good way to do this! Pat your a great resource!

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what can i say:o Thanks

Or, use a dent puller to pop out the rear cam plug on the back of the block, knock the old cam out with a broom handle..... The block is going to get new cam bearings and a new cam, why worry about being gentle with it???

PB Blast or some Yield if you can find it, best stuff i've ever used is Yield! spray the heck out of it and let it sit for a half hour and spray it again, when its wet the second time it'd come out.

I stopped at Home Depot tonight and picked up a 12 inch piece of allthread and made a simple puller out of some flat stock and a couple of pieces of 2 x 6 wood. The cam came out like butter. :) But boy are the cam bearings coated with black crud, looks like cooked on oil and varnish. They must have never changed the oil from the looks and smell of it.

The block, crank, pistons and rods are loaded in my trunk and I'll drop them off at the machine shop tomorrow. He's a little slow getting things done but that is ok, I have a lot of other stuff to do on the car. I plan on looking for a 3 or 4 inch fiberglass cowl induction hood at Turkey Run next week, as well as any other 351 stuff I will need like an aluminum intake, swap headers, etc.

Thanks for all the suggestions and for explaining what was holding this thing in so hard.

Don

gLAD IT SLIPPED OUT WITHOUT FURTHER TROUBLE dON. nICE WORK ON THE HOMEMADE PULLER, JUST GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT SIMPLE IS SOMETIMES BETTER. Darn caps lock!
I was sanding down a dresser today, when my Makita random orbital sander kept tossing the sand paper off. The velcro/hook and loop just doesn't hold the paper any more. So I got out my old 1/4 sheet porter cable sander and the pad flew off! I searched locally for new bases for both and finally went to OSH and bought a cheap random orbital, which had a better velcro. By time I got home I only had about 30 minutes of daylight to work. Some days just don't seem to go the way we want. On the positive side I did order replacement parts for the other sanders. Both have been great work horses over the years, just need a little TLC!

I know, Steve, you have all these plans to get something done and then realize you need to run out for something. Before long the whole day is shot and you got nothing accomplished. I spend half my life running around trying to find stuff.

Don

Yep I got a little torqued since I only had one day off. But I think I can work a few hours each day before work and get it done by this weekend so my clothes will have a new home. The long of the short of it, a coworkers house burnt to the ground and they lost everything. She is pregnant due in a month, has a daughter, husband, 2 brothers and a mom living with her, all unemployed. So we have been helping her out. I bought a used dresser for her, but it needed some fixing up, and refinishing. In the mean time she found a new place and needed furniture right away, so I gave her my dresser, and figured I'd refinish the one I bought used, and use it once it's done. We also have donated money to help get her back on her feet. Just breaks your heart when good folks have bad stuff happen to them. She's also a pet owner with several dogs and cats, all fortunately o.k and in good homes.
Meantime relatives coming this Sunday, so now the rush is on to get my house back in shape for their visit. Gotta love the Holidays.

That's really sad about your coworker, Steve. Maybe call the Salvation Army and Goodwill. They have some programs to help out people like your friend. Years ago I knew a girl who lost everthing and had one Daughter. I called around and Goodwill said to have her come in and pick out some furniture and clothing free of charge. Just a thought. :) Nice of you to help her out like you have.

I have been reading conflicting info on the net about what cams I can run in the 5.8 roller cam motor I have. Some sites say they just use any roller cam made for a 5.0 and other sites said no, the lobe seperation, lift, and timing are all wrong and you need a special cam. So I called Ford Racing this morning. The tech guy said he doesn't know where people get this stuff, the 5.0 roller stuff and 5.8 roller stuff are exactly the same. That is good news and now I can use one of the 303 series cams I was planning on. Probably an E or F 303 from what I have been researching, but not the more radical X 303 like I have in my 27. This car will be an automatic and even though I want a lopey idle I don't want it too radical to idle at lights.

I'm ready to head to the machine shop to drop off the block now.

Don