OT: To Auction or Not?

I would like some honest opinions to help me decide whether or not to send my '34 Ford Tudor to auction in March. Selling it to start a new fresh build of a '33 Steel Coupe... Before I list it, I would like honest opinions as to whether or not it would be an appropriate addition to an auction, what, in your opinions, would be a reasonable reserve price, and what, on a conservative basis, should it sell for.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/IMG_5842.jpg
The car is a 1934 Ford Model 40 Tudor Street Rod, all steel body, 350/350, originally designed and built by a rod shop in Palm Bay, FL in the early '70s. It was "lost" for 20 years and, eventually "found" in a lawn care maintenance shed in So.Florida. I restored it back to how it was originally built & pinstripped, with a few modern updates. Engine is being replaced as we speak due to a broken crank, so it will have less than 100 miles on the engine, with a GM crate engine warranty. Vintage A/C, B&M sport shifter, USB/CD AM/FM sound system. Doors are all solenoid controlled. Front Disc Power Brakes, rear drums. 650cc Carb. Electronic Ignition, etc. Adjustable Coil over shocks. Mustang 2 front end, 9" ford rear. Paint is 1 year old, rims have the original Patina (Rocket rims). (Should I replace with shiny chrome for more appeal?)

Here's a link to some recent pictures...

Photos | Photobucket's Top Collections of Pictures & Images | Photobucket

I would appreciate your honest opinions.

Thanks! Bart in FL

Bart - I can't help you with pricing as the market is too volatile. Florida and/or the market may be up or down at any particular moment of the sale.

As far as the car - the only thing I can see that would put me off are the wheels - not a lover of those, Torque Thrusts, I believe. Additionally, and how others might see the car is the way the front tires hang outside the fenders instead of inside and in the 'rebound' curve - Photo 2 in your album shows it best. Maybe more back spaced wheels will take care of that - or worse, a different suspension might be necessary to fix what I see as a detriment - $$$$.

Of course, just my opinion and what I believe you asked for as others might see it differently:D

Bart,
You've got a beautiful sedan, one of my favorite years regardless of the body style, and the chop is perfect. Like Dave says, the pricing is going to be dependent on the locality and the audience at the particular auction. When I Google'd "1934 Sedan For Sale" it had several ( 1934 sedan for sale - Yakaz Cars ), and they seemed to be ranging from low $30's to mid-$40's asking price, but you might jump on the Mecum auction site and see if you can find a comparable vehicle in their Kissimme auction going on now?

I had not noticed the front track, but Dave's got a good eye. Not sure you can gain much via back spacing to pull the tires under the fenders more - looks like they're already spaced inboard from center. What jumps out at me is that the graphics scream '70's, which I think may restrict your audience somewhat. I'm more conservative and would probably be looking at doing the body solid silver but I would hate to lose that pin-striping on the back side! That would affect my bid price for the car, but that's purely personal preference.

I watched some of the Mecum and Barrett Jackson auctions, and one thing they mentioned was the value of the owner being present to answer questions, or at least having a good package of historical info to show the details of any restoration. At Mecum most cars have a reserve (not at BJ), and they said many times that the bidding is restrained until the reserve is off, with bidders "hunting" for that reserve without over shooting, and then once they know they can win the bidding may become more spirited assuming one has two or more who are ready to buy. Not sure I'd take the risk of a no reserve auction in today's market.

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Originally Posted by IC2

Bart - I can't help you with pricing as the market is too volatile. Florida and/or the market may be up or down at any particular moment of the sale.

As far as the car - the only thing I can see that would put me off are the wheels - not a lover of those, Torque Thrusts, I believe. Additionally, and how others might see the car is the way the front tires hang outside the fenders instead of inside and in the 'rebound' curve - Photo 2 in your album shows it best. Maybe more back spaced wheels will take care of that - or worse, a different suspension might be necessary to fix what I see as a detriment - $$$$.

Of course, just my opinion and what I believe you asked for as others might see it differently:D

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Good eye, but the angle of the shot was bad... look at picture 5 (?), wheel is inset... I agree about the rims, what's your opinion of painted steelies, with hubs?
Bart in FL

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Originally Posted by rspears

Bart,
You've got a beautiful sedan, one of my favorite years regardless of the body style, and the chop is perfect. Like Dave says, the pricing is going to be dependent on the locality and the audience at the particular auction. When I Google'd "1934 Sedan For Sale" it had several ( 1934 sedan for sale - Yakaz Cars ), and they seemed to be ranging from low $30's to mid-$40's asking price, but you might jump on the Mecum auction site and see if you can find a comparable vehicle in their Kissimme auction going on now?

I had not noticed the front track, but Dave's got a good eye. Not sure you can gain much via back spacing to pull the tires under the fenders more - looks like they're already spaced inboard from center. What jumps out at me is that the graphics scream '70's, which I think may restrict your audience somewhat. I'm more conservative and would probably be looking at doing the body solid silver but I would hate to lose that pin-striping on the back side! That would affect my bid price for the car, but that's purely personal preference.

I watched some of the Mecum and Barrett Jackson auctions, and one thing they mentioned was the value of the owner being present to answer questions, or at least having a good package of historical info to show the details of any restoration. At Mecum most cars have a reserve (not at BJ), and they said many times that the bidding is restrained until the reserve is off, with bidders "hunting" for that reserve without over shooting, and then once they know they can win the bidding may become more spirited assuming one has two or more who are ready to buy. Not sure I'd take the risk of a no reserve auction in today's market.

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The comment on the color is one that I am hearing a great deal about... considering repainting to match the red, as the interior trim is red (seat inserts & ceiling is gray; floor is black carpet)... What's your opinion on that color. Thought about the silver, but then I would need to repaint the window trim, etc. inside as well as the interior engine bay and hood inside. If I had my choice, and wanted to spend the $$$, I would redo the entire car JET BLACK.... then decide whether or not to sell... I wanted to start a fresh build, 33-34 black, all steel 3 window coupe, ford in a ford... but by the time I repaint this one, I might not need to! :)

I've bought a number of cars at auction, typically on emotion, but never sold any. I would only sell with reserve, as the risk is too high for me! That said, I've seen general prices moving up recently in FLorida at auction, but the prices I've seen on rods are all over the place... sometimes 'glass more than steel, retro more than rat, and sometimes just the opposite!

Bart in FL

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Originally Posted by btsave

The comment on the color is one that I am hearing a great deal about... considering repainting to match the red, as the interior trim is red (seat inserts & ceiling is gray; floor is black carpet)... What's your opinion on that color. Thought about the silver, but then I would need to repaint the window trim, etc. inside as well as the interior engine bay and hood inside. If I had my choice, and wanted to spend the $$$, I would redo the entire car JET BLACK.... then decide whether or not to sell... I wanted to start a fresh build, 33-34 black, all steel 3 window coupe, ford in a ford... but by the time I repaint this one, I might not need to! :)

I've bought a number of cars at auction, typically on emotion, but never sold any. I would only sell with reserve, as the risk is too high for me! That said, I've seen general prices moving up recently in FLorida at auction, but the prices I've seen on rods are all over the place... sometimes 'glass more than steel, retro more than rat, and sometimes just the opposite!
Bart in FL

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IMO I think you'd lose a lot of "pop" if it's all red, and I don't think you have to re-paint the garnish moldings - your door panels are more red than silver, and garnish moldings are part of the interior, not the exterior. Engine bay would be up to you, but matching the fenders is not a bad approach on a two tone car, IMO. Dave's point on the wheels is that ideally the centerline of the tire is centered on the fender recess, taking advantage of the "rebound area" of the fender. Your's are inside the edge of the fender, but biased outboard an inch or two, it appears.

I tend to agree with IC2 whe wheels look a bit to far out on the front. Price as they say will be hard to set but I would definatly have a reserve on it and see what happens at least that way you won't loose.

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Originally Posted by rspears

IMO I think you'd lose a lot of "pop" if it's all red, and I don't think you have to re-paint the garnish moldings - your door panels are more red than silver, and garnish moldings are part of the interior, not the exterior. Engine bay would be up to you, but matching the fenders is not a bad approach on a two tone car, IMO. Dave's point on the wheels is that ideally the centerline of the tire is centered on the fender recess, taking advantage of the "rebound area" of the fender. Your's are inside the edge of the fender, but biased outboard an inch or two, it appears.

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You seem to sound like you have a good handle on the color schemes... so you think that I should paint the car silver to match, and leave the red/silver interior as is? In terms of the wheels, probably going to use painted steelies... maybe I can find a deeper back space... opinions on whether the steelies should be matched to the body or contrasting color?

Painting is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$these days and no guarantee that you would pick up any $$$$in return-----

I think the best bet for selling individual street rods is to take them to shows/cruizees with for sale sign but no dollar amount listed--then any one who asks has an interest or knows someone who might be looking---however in this scenior, the sale depends on what they have in there bank account, where as at those auctions$$$$$$$$$$$ comes from level of how close up front to tv cameras and how many drinks---------

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Originally Posted by btsave

You seem to sound like you have a good handle on the color schemes... so you think that I should paint the car silver to match, and leave the red/silver interior as is? In terms of the wheels, probably going to use painted steelies... maybe I can find a deeper back space... opinions on whether the steelies should be matched to the body or contrasting color?

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Jerry's right, paint is not cheap but it doesn't cost anything to kick it around. Given your approach I would do the body silver and leave the under hood and garnish moldings alone. Add a belt line pinstripe matching the red on the fenders, which will also tend to tie into the interior garnish moldings and interior color. If you can save that nice pinstripe in the back that's a bonus, but only if you can get a perfect match on the silver. If you want steelies, maybe consider some "artillery style" wheels in silver to match the body with the small center caps, maybe with the Ford logo? A nice single or double red pinstripe around the wheels would set them off nicely, too. Car would be killer, to my eye!

This is what I mean about centering the wheels in the fender 'rebound' arch on my '31. I do have fairly large tires in comparison to many but they are not lost in the wheel wells, front or rear as so many fendered cars that I see at cruises or shows. I do like steel wheels on some cars, especially if they don't have a nice disk brake arrangement(no, the caster and camber are not 'off', it's the way I photographed the car).

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i8...DSC_0007-3.jpg

As far as paint - I'm still seeing fairly recent paint jobs such as yours. At this point, for sure wouldn't do a repaint vs return on that investment, especially at the cost of materials these days. Mine is a 'standard' Ford Mustang color, Venetian Orange and at 2009 pricing was ~$650/gallon x 2 gallons for DuPont ChromaBase plus 1.5 gallons of not inexpensive SPI clear coat

Unless you stick to a reserve , it could sell for anything, no matter what you change. I agree with Jerry and take it to shows to show it off and maybe catch the eye of the next owner.People who come to auctions are looking for a deal too, not to pay full price.

Nice looking car,I have a 34 chevy for sale. I look at it as the more you spend trying to sell it the more you take away from the selling price.
In todays market, its a buying market, not a sellers.So the more people that see or here about the car, the better chance somebody will want it. the price will depend on who see it and what they will give a the time. There is somebody out there that will love the car just as it is. You just have to find them. Jonathan

Soooooooooo----I read that it was built early 70s but has a Mustang 2 front end?????
can you clearify how that was done??????????

There are two ways to get your wheels more under the fenders----they sell A arm kits that are shorter and then there is choice of wheels

Biggest issue besides looks and/or handling is that when turning into a drive way over a curb the wheel can be deflected upwards getting tire into fender lip causing fender and/or paint damage----------

I wouldn't worry about the wheels being liked or not liked by anyone as they are the easist and most economical to replace components on a vehicle( unless you want to do Foose's)

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Soooooooooo----I read that it was built early 70s but has a Mustang 2 front end?????
can you clearify how that was done??????????

There are two ways to get your wheels more under the fenders----they sell A arm kits that are shorter and then there is choice of wheels

Biggest issue besides looks and/or handling is that when turning into a drive way over a curb the wheel can be deflected upwards getting tire into fender lip causing fender and/or paint damage----------

I wouldn't worry about the wheels being liked or not liked by anyone as they are the easist and most economical to replace components on a vehicle( unless you want to do Foose's)

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Actually, I should have said PINTO front end (1974 to be exact)... sorry, I have another '34 which I recently did with my son & that has a Mustang front end...

Jerry, I will look for the A arms...

Still thinking about the Paint issue... my thought originally was to sell it to fund a new build.. I was planning on a 34 coupe, black, all steel as my project... but, maybe will just keep this one, and bring it closer to what i was going to build... would probably be a great deal less expensive! Looking at Roger's suggestion of all silver with red accent belt line & underhood red, got me to thinking about painting her all black, leaving the firewall red and underhood red and incorporating a red belt light around it... I can have the rear "swirl" pinstripe redone in red to pull it all together.
I like the idea of the red rims with small caps and I can have a thin gray line detailed on them... thoughts?

That way, I get my "new" black '34, and keep what has been a very reliable car...
hmmm

another opinion: selling it at some auction such as BJ, you will be mucho disappointed unless you want maybe $15K for the car. These auctions have big numbers for the "insider" cars....if you are a buddy of theirs, you do well, if not, you are risking a low dollar sale. Watch the auction on TV......a typical pedestrian car gets 3minutes or so and is pushed off. Their buddies get a lot more time and effort. I know of $500K cars (build cost) that sold for $100K because of the politics. Jerry Clayton is right, find a buyer at a car show or some other exposure....you have the luxury then of declining a low offer.