New to the site - Questions about my '31 Model A

Hoping I can get some help with a few issues. First this is my freshly restored 31 model a. I had it done last year by a shop that I had to fire, then hire another company to finish (cannot explain the nightmare that was on top of the cost).
Lets start with the goods, everything runs perfect however I nearly have to slam the gas pedal to get it to pick up speed and when I do to damn thing sticks. That is issue one. Issue 2 has to do with the brakes, instead of installing the Wilwood brakes system he used Speedways brake system and the front right squeaks. Issue 3 damn thing drives nice up til about 60 mph and then has a death wobble until about 67 mph. It also happens if I hit a bump while driving (first time it happened thought I was going to crap). All in all they built me a nice car, if you want to see the entire make over on the car from the day I bought it until the day I brought it home check out its facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/Transformin...22830/?fref=ts

Can you get us a photo of the steering side, I am wondering about a bump steer problem but can't tell as of yet without a photo. Also is there a steering damper installed (guessing no), like the one Pete & Jakes sells, which I findly found out what it originally came on....A VW super beetle!! I rebuilt a super beetle and found that damper on the suspension and then saw a duplicate on a dropped axle at a NSRA show and asked the guy if he knew where it came from and he told me P&J and I told him its a beetle part originally and he wasn't real thrilled to have it on his American rod!!

OK,
Issue 1. Identify the carbs, 97's or 48's? Identify the linkage, all 3 in at once or progressive, "running on the middle carb and then tipping in the two end carbs for speed"? Have the two end carbs been gutted or do they still have all their components? Do all three carbs still have their choke plates? Need detailed photos. Primary carb may need new accelerator pump plunger, or all three may need new plunger, depending on how the linkage is engineered. One of the things you may not know is that these little 2-barrels will not tolerate over 2 1/2 lbs of fuel pressure, so you may want to hook up a pressure gauge right at the center carb inlet so that you can read it going down the road. DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, BRING A LIVE FUEL LINE OR GAUGE INTO THE CAB OF THE VEHICLE. I would suggest mounting a mechanical 0-5 psi gauge on the cowl in front of the windshield, so that it can be read through the windshield while driving down the road. You can use tie-wraps and/or duct tape to mount the gauge temporarily.
Kodiak Controls KC25 5 Low Pressure Gauge 5 PSI | eBay

Issue 2. Remove the brake pads and smear wheel bearing grease all across the entire rear of the pads, reassemble without getting any grease on the pad friction material. The grease does not have to be thick, just use your fingers and smear it around. The grease will cancel the harmonics that are generated as the pads vibrate and jump around in their mounts and make music on the end of the piston. Use lacquer thinner to clean the pad friction material and the rotor on both sides while you have it apart. Wheel bearing grease is designed to tolerate heat without running. You can actually hold a lighter up to it and see it char, but it will not run, so you have no worries about it running onto the rotor and getting the brake components greasy and unable to perform. Don't try to get techy with the grease, just use plain, old cheapo wheel bearing grease.

Issue 3. Need clear photos of every part of the steering system, some shots that show the whole system, then closer, then each individual part and the intersections of parts. Suspect you will need a Panhard Bar and/or damper as suggested above by Matthyj, but will have to see your system. You may also need to add some positive caster to the axle, up to maybe 7-8 degrees and run a little more toe-in. Are those radials or bias-ply tires on the front?

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https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...45035324_o.jpg

Wheel offset WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY outside of desired amount-line from king pin centerline should intersect ground at middle of tire patch contact pattern on ground. And probably castor angle out of wack also.


https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...33&oe=5719F0D9
https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...38&oe=57101197


Looks like very short panhard bar and not level and no cross bar at the front end

If you are specific on what you would like photos of I will take direct pics of those areas. Here is what I have which may help you see the steering

As far as the carbs, they came from Charlie Price, center carb is the main carb and the others open (very tightly) when additional fuel is needed.

Tell me what you want to see and also what info you need I have all parts reciepts

I'd like to have the guy who designed that Panhard Bar by the throat......:eek: :mad:

Remove the lock nuts and short studs from the steering linkage, drill through the D-shaft and insert Grade 8 (6 hash marks on the bolt head) through-bolts with Ny-Loc locking nuts. #10 bolts (0.190" diameter) will be enough. This is just to keep the whole mess together in the event of an accident or component malfunction.

Re: carbs. What does "open very tightly" mean? Are the throttle shafts too tight in their bore or is there something else binding?

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https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0c95&oe=571B6F

Carb linkage
https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...80&oe=5716D37C


A lot of very detailed innovative work nicely done-------too bad total disregard for basic safety in that all the suspension and steering are mucked. Nice design work on the total package----

Now that Jerry has provided a better photo, I see that the carbs are Rochesters. Max fuel pressure 5 psi. My eyes still are not good enough to see the details of the linkage. The fuel log should have a threaded outlet on the back side (toward the distributor) where you could tap in to monitor the fuel pressure. I see there is a pressure adjustment valve between the fuel block and the pump, so adjustments will be easy.

Agree with Jerry, very nicely engineered package for the most part, but someone failed to carry through on the details.

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Jerry, cannot get the first link on your post #7 to come up. Is there more to it?

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Upper rear shock mount bolts will bend or break on the first good hit, they're mounted in single shear. Poor engineering.

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https://www.facebook.com/Transformin...30/?fref=photo

try this link for several pics

Are you saying that the car is not safe? When driving it and hitting a bump it feels very unsafe.

When I throttle the pedal the first 1/2" is loose the the gas pedal in any car, however when I go to accelerate the gas pedal is harder to push down and sticks open many times where I have to kick it down

I wanted an electronic choke as well but was told by the first builder it's a nightmare and I didn't want it

To be really honest, I spared no expense on this build and feel with all the work done I have a nice $70k build but unfortunately I have $96k in it. I had to fire the original builder and hire 5 different to figure out and get this car done. The final result is a stunning piece of mechanical art when looking at it but a nightmare when driving. Not quite the experience I expected for working 360 last year to pay for it.

I live in central Illinois about 45 minutes east of Davenport is in Bureau il. I would love someone to fix all the issues. I hate the idea of paying more but love the idea of driving this like I thought I'd be able too.

I bought the complete setup from Vintage Speed (Charlie Price), here is a pic of what I bought showing the linkage

PM me your exact address so I can google map to see where your at-----I could maybe come out to take a look and go over some of those items with you. Take a look at my gallery for some pics of stuff I've done (click the camera icon below my name)

You have no idea how badly I feel for you and I don't even know where to send you for help. If I were in your shoes, I'd be KILL-MAD.

OOPS, just saw Jerry's post offering help....

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Jerry,

Thanks for the offer I am near Princeton IL 61356 are you in Barlett Illinois?

Jerry,

I see that you are in Bartlett, IL would you like to fix my car? Please say yes as I am out of trustable options. I have invested so much money in this beautiful car but at the end of the day it might as well be a painting on the wall!

Tech, have you any experience with anti-squeal spray?

(Really, it's a product)

Anyway, I've tried hi temp grease on the back of brakepads once, it would stop the squeak for the first three times, then it went back to squealing.

Anyway, the anti-squeak spray is like a spray glue which doesn't quite set. It's a sticky mess. I always use it, but only on pads, not shoes.

Yes, I have used that and you're correct, it works well. Not sure why you had squealing with Wheel Bearing Grease, I never have.

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It was a BMW. Maybe German cars are special.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

PM me your exact address so I can google map to see where your at-----I could maybe come out to take a look and go over some of those items with you. Take a look at my gallery for some pics of stuff I've done (click the camera icon below my name)

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Jerry,

Yes I would pay you to come out, you are 2 hours from me but if you come out with a trailer and know you can fix it you can take it with you. My town is Bureau IL if you want to come I'll give you my direct address. Please consider working on it. I am at a loss of who to take it to.

I'm studying the build pics -I would like to come out and see it, is it in a warm spot? and can it be lifted up?

Been studing the build pics of the frame and finding that it doesn't have any bracing or triangulation for torsional flex was baffling me-then I discovered the site of the frame builder and that explained it-He really is a builder of v8 chopper bikes-also of course with a single front wheel there aren't any steering geometry issues as in a four wheel vehicle ( caster, camber, toe in, bump steer)

Jerry,

The car is in a 12' x 32' garage and no I have no way to lift it. Mac builds hotrods and has for quite a while. I did a lot of reserch on him before hiring him. THere are so many guys out there with this chasis as he honestly builds rollers and just recently he started to build trikes. I am beside myself upset about this whole thing. If you want to call my house # I messaged you last night with it and maybe we start by talking on the phone. Let me know if you did not get it

Rob

mate - looked at your whole photo thread an your car would not be allowed on the road in New Zealand. at the very minimum - it needs a k- member for the centre x-member and they are adamant that it has to have that but prefer us to put a double k - i.e. braces running forwards and backwards of the centre cross-member and as mentioned the rear 4-bars are in single shear which would need grade-8 bolts min but once again double -shear ( the rod-ends inside two steel plates) is strongly recommended. I would suspect your chassis is flexing around a lot. the rear x-member doesn't look that strong either!
its a seriously cool looking little hotrod but I suspect you've got a lemon that will take a lot more money to sort out.
sorry!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharpmark

mate - looked at your whole photo thread an your car would not be allowed on the road in New Zealand. at the very minimum - it needs a k- member for the centre x-member and they are adamant that it has to have that but prefer us to put a double k - i.e. braces running forwards and backwards of the centre cross-member and as mentioned the rear 4-bars are in single shear which would need grade-8 bolts min but once again double -shear ( the rod-ends inside two steel plates) is strongly recommended. I would suspect your chassis is flexing around a lot. the rear x-member doesn't look that strong either!
its a seriously cool looking little hotrod but I suspect you've got a lemon that will take a lot more money to sort out.
sorry!

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What he said!
Also:
Your rear 4-bars look a tad short as does the panhard rod (If you want good handling.
I didn't notice an emergency (hand) brake.
The frame looks too flimsy and lacking X members so I suspect a lot of flaxing.

But yeah, a cool car and good proportions!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharpmark

mate - looked at your whole photo thread an your car would not be allowed on the road in New Zealand. at the very minimum - it needs a k- member for the centre x-member and they are adamant that it has to have that but prefer us to put a double k - i.e. braces running forwards and backwards of the centre cross-member and as mentioned the rear 4-bars are in single shear which would need grade-8 bolts min but once again double -shear ( the rod-ends inside two steel plates) is strongly recommended. I would suspect your chassis is flexing around a lot. the rear x-member doesn't look that strong either!
its a seriously cool looking little hotrod but I suspect you've got a lemon that will take a lot more money to sort out.
sorry!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiwi37

What he said!
Also:
Your rear 4-bars look a tad short as does the panhard rod (If you want good handling.
I didn't notice an emergency (hand) brake.
The frame looks too flimsy and lacking X members so I suspect a lot of flaxing.

But yeah, a cool car and good proportions!

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I had not taken time to look through your photos on FaceBook, but after reading Mark's post I was curious. I'd say that Mark nailed it, to fix your problems you're going to be pulling the body off and doing some major re-construction work on your chassis. There's nothing that cannot be fixed, but it's always a bit more difficult to fix someone else's mistakes than it is to do it right from the start. The car has a great stance, and like Kiwi37 says the proportions are nice, but it's like a fancy new beach house built without pilings. Since a person's got to be a FB user to see your photos, here's one of the chassis so that everyone can see what Mark & Kiwi were pointing out:

Attachment 65152

Sorry for your problems. It sounds like you've already been through the wringer picking shops to build your car, but IMO you're not anywhere nearly done yet.

While the commentary on the questionable frame center reinforcement is spot on it's likely your "death wobble" is caused by loose steering/front suspension components. For example, if the steering box is just a little loose on it's mounts you'll get what you described. Also, if the king pins are loose in their bushings. Things along those lines, meaning ALL of the steering components. If you don't have the knowledge to examine and remediate you'll need to find reliable, experienced help. As for the throttle issues, those are Rochester 2GC carbs, very common for tri power, even were what GM used in the '50s-60s. My guess would be that the linkage is set up wrong and is binding then going a bit over center to lock when you go full throttle. The quick "fix" would be to disconnect the linkage to the two outboard carbs and see if that solves the problem. If not then it's probably the linkage from the pedal to the center carb (if it's installed anywhere close to correctly).

Sadly, your experience with "professional" builders is not uncommon..............not much comfort to know you're not alone though.

Rob------I'm pretty tied up for at least the next couple of weeks-maybe around the first of Feb I can make a jaunt out there. Hopefully you won't get more depeased with comments on here as it is sad to see such an outstanding looking car be built on a styroform plastic frame package.

I've been studying all the pics and at this point thinking different frame stragy from firewall back and also some changes to steering - cross link, better angle between king pins/ground contact patch, ( are your tires radial both front and rear?) correct steering geometry and adjustment settings, shock/spring settings, etc Looking forward to seeing it and meeting you---

Jerry

Rob,
As usual Uncle Bob pulled us back to the right focus. I'm not saying that your frame is causing your death wobble, but there are some safety and stability issues there that I would recommend you address.

For a steering linkage that's not cross steer the first place I'd look for the death wobble solution is a loose panhard bar (which some call a track bar) mount, or improperly fitted/too soft bushings on that bar. Like Bob says though, it's the additive effect of tolerances that can cause the wobble, too, and it can be a bear to solve some times.

Best of luck tracking down the solutions to your problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jerry clayton

Been studing the build pics of the frame and finding that it doesn't have any bracing or triangulation for torsional flex was baffling me-then I discovered the site of the frame builder and that explained it-He really is a builder of v8 chopper bikes-also of course with a single front wheel there aren't any steering geometry issues as in a four wheel vehicle ( caster, camber, toe in, bump steer)

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No steering issues? Motorcycle and bicycle steering geometry is fairly complicated. You do have caster (called rake by motorcycle builders and head tube angle by bicycle frame builders). In addition, you have fork offset on both bicycles and motorcycles. Motorcycles can also have raked trees, to increase offset and reduce excessive trail from a large rake. In the end, the builder is striving for a particular TRAIL. Trail is the horizontal distance between a line through the steering axis, intersecting the ground and the actual contact point of the tire, with the ground. Unless the caster angle is zero, there is always some amount of trail. Cars have a trail value, and it's simple to calculate. All it involves is caster and tire diameter. Trail = tire radius/tanC, where C is 90 minus the caster angle. A lot of car builders only think of caster and not the affect of tire diameter on the trail. The larger the tire, the more trail and the more caster angle, the larger the trail (for a given tire diameter). A google search on rake and trail will bring up a lot of articles.

rake and trail

Looks like there is no track bar on the front axle.....if not you need to add one, especially with the cross steer setup and hairpins. The axle will sway back and forth on the spring shackles causing the death wobble. Also I'd make sure the wheels have a proper balance. It's really a nice looking car, sounds like you just need to work a few bugs out. Also 2x on the anti-squeal spray for the back of the brake pads all the auto part stores sell it.