Horse Power or Torque what is more important?

I have this argument all the time with my other team members as well as most of my friends. Here is how i see it...

If you have two identical cars say 2 Chevrolet Camaro RS's both with 350ci engines same options etc..only diffrence between the two cars is one was tuned with High Horsepower in mind and the other one was tuned for High amount of torque. I believe that if these two cars were to race on the 1/4 mile the car with more torque would win.. The way i see it is torque is the amount of power turning the wheels it does not matter how much HP you have if the torue on your car sucks. I truly believe that if two identical cars meet on the track the one with more torque will win hands down everytime. I myself have beaten cars with more HP then mine just simply because i had a higher ft lb of torque then they did.
What do you think is more important Horsepower or Torque?

Torqe and horsepower are not independent of each other. Horsepower is calculated from torque. Further, torque and horspower are always equal at 5252 RPM, obviously because:
Torque = (HP x RPM) /5252

You might want to read this:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/868/

Are you ready? Torque is for "Take off". Horsepower is for "High speed". The need of both is equally as important in most aspects. You can argue these points forever unless you are specific on your purpose. Drag racers will use both torque and horsepower. Circle track racers will tend to use/need more of the horsepower side. Rockcrawlers, tractor pullers, towing will use more of the torque side. It's all in your seat pinning, head snaping, tire smoking way of life... Hope this will either clear this up or really confuse you even more.

Good point Cobra

i have beaten cars on the track that have more HP then me...last race on July 2nd i raced against a old camaro ss that had a 454 he had more hp but i had more torqe i won.

Torque is the throw you back in your seat power you feel when you take off...not horsepower..

My Camaro....has beat cars with much more HP then mine but they had lower torque numbers

If you just look at max torque, the assumptions are misleading. What really matters is the breadth of the torque curve, and the RPM where peak torque occurs.

Take a look at the following website and read the section on "At the Drag Strip.)

http://www.ls1.com/handt.htm

Henry, well put. Also depends on how the car is set up. a car that doesnt have alot of low speed torque likes steep gears & loose convertor, its all about the entire package. me personally I like a flat as a board torque curve

Streets, your right, but whoever races the clock better wins

I lean towards torque, but thats cause I buy motors that are designed for that to start with. Its always easier to get more torque from a high torque motor than HP from the same motor. What it comes down too is what do You want to do with the motor?want 800HP? better go street racing. Want better fuel economy? get a high set of gears and a torque motor. or a 4 cylinder(eeeew).Want to throw back your head till your eyeballs pop out? get a Big block my friend. HP has its uses, but im big on torque myself.

Streets Says... "This is so funny.. Someone actually goes drag racin' and believe's that they are racing the guy in the other lane.. You race the clock and if you mess up in your stagin', launchin', clutch setup, track/lane conditions, or any number of other thangs, YOU LOSE!!"



I do drag race and in drag racing there are two types of drag racing there is the Bracket kind where you pick the time you are going to run and the person closest to his time wins...this is the "Racing the clock drag racing"

I on the other hand race in "Heads Up" Drag racing in this type it IS the FIRST PERSON to cross finish line works does not matter clock speed nothing...does not even matter if you get off the line first i have beaten people who have beat me off the line. All that matters is who gets to the finish line first. In the drag racing my team and i participate in you ARE racing the guy in the other lane.

Here at Southwest International Racway in Tucson I race in class called simply " Street and Imports" Steet Legal Cars Only...this is what they call the class...only regs are your car must be street legal..I.e. working lights etc when you go through tech inspection you must have working lights, hood, windows that roll up, car must me registered and insured, must be "street legal'


I hold the record for my class on my team, my best time was 10.04 secs 147mph with a .002 Reaction time, they use a Pro Tree for this it happend on July 2nd 2004 Midnight Madness at Soutwest International Raceway Tucson Arizona.

Dark-Night,
You ran a 10.04 at 147 mph with a 302 HP motor?

And with an .002 reaction time on a Pro Tree, you musta been staged awfully deep and really took a shot at the tree and guessed right.

Please tell us a little more about your car, those are impressive times for street legal through the mufflers. Would be interested to know about the chassis. I saw the picture of your car, Can't see a roll bar or cage. I am suprised that your track allows that kind of performance without one.

Pat

Someone doing a little leg-pulling here?

302 HP will get you about 12.5 at 108

750 HP gets 9.24 at about 147.

. . . and that's rear wheel horsepower.

If you're running 147, you hae a LOT more than 302 hp . . . and the car ain't hooking up too well.

What's the real story?

as i said in the other post Torque is the more important factor over horsepower my friend...car looks stock on the outside on purpose i love to make them imports think they can beat me. The track only requires a roll bar if your car runs faster then 10.00 but if your car runs faster then 13.00 you are required to wear helmets

Here is the website of the local track if you guys are interested http://www.sirace.com

Track Website says the Midnite Madness race isn't until July 30.

So I'll bite, what is your torque figure? @ what RPM?

Still want to know about your chassis.

It doesn't really matter if you've got enough torque to pull an elephant inside out by hooking a log chain to his trunk through his arse. 302 HP won't get you 147 MPH. No way. No how.

Also, what RPM is the 302 HP? It's been adequately explained that torque and HP are not independent. You can calculate one from the other at any point from idle to redline.

. . . now where did I put that trolling motor?????

Here's a question for ya Dark Knight: How long is your local drag strip? I know most are 1/4 mile but not all. Down here in Florida, I go to the Emerald Coast Raceway every once in a blue moon. And despite how cool it is, it is a 1/8 mile strip. Which means almost every stock V8 Camaro down here is getting very least 11's but mostly 9's and 10's. The fact that the strip here is kinda short isn't actually bad for the street legal guys, but for the Outlaw Pro-Mod guys, half of them cut the engine off before they cross the line.


On a different note:
I can't wait to get my Charger running so I can put some of these rice rocket boys to shame. Although with a stock 318 I am gonna have to pull some serious mods before I stick her out there among the imports that way half as much as my car and are running Nitrous. All I got to say to those guys is they are not racing cars, they are racing a bundle of money they squeezed into a big fat tank that they shoved into the back seat.

Is it possible that most of the controversy on this thread is/was caused by a typographical error when he typed 302 instead of 502 for torque? Even then 502 ft. lb. is very good torque for a 350, but possible. In my past career the people in science articles would really nail you for such an error but still typos did occur and I have made a few on this Forum myself. Still the edit feature can be used to carefully look over critical facts before final submission of a post. This guy probably really has a 502 ft. lb. 350 and that is more reasonable than a 4.6 sec 1/4 using liquid O2 in a platimum block on another thread! Hey a 10 second 1/4 mile time is pretty impressive, and even more so in a street class; maybe we should notify Ron Howard for the American Grafitti sequel with this car as the star! Just for curiosity I would ask Streets what class he ran in with that 8 flat time, was that in the wild and wooley "Altered" class of some sort? Again, in whatever class, to drive a car to a strip and run 8 flat in the quarter is TRULY amazing and we have no reason not to believe it! Still 4.6 on LOX is more than a stretch!

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

guys i do applogize on the horsepower rating it was a damn typo, i was in middle of talking to some one about another engine while i was in middle of posting i got the digits messed up i do appologize the ratings on my car are 450 hp and 502 tq

the midnight madness race bud is not a once a year race it happens frequently, and to answer the other ? about the length of the track for this i am not sure i know we race 1/4 mile..but of course the track has two sets of scoreboards and two sets of finsih lines, when we race the only boards being used are the ones at the first finish line i hope this helps with your question. sorry again on the typo

Quote:

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Originally posted by Streets

:LOL: 'Nother wannabe livin' under a bridge.. A.K.A. HEAD??... :LOL::LOL: [/B]

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You need to back off streets and relax, so i typo'd on the specs what is your problem with me? and who is HEAD? and why are you claiming i am this person?

i would be more then happy to fax you all the specs on the damn car just so you can relax and leave me alone or come to my house 1332 Lea Street Tucson arizona or call me at 520 559-7434 to get in touch with me to arrange for me getting you the specs so you will get off my case, ok streets?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Streets
Hehehe... Could it be the same person that doesn't now how a "cowl induction" hood works too?? :p

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like i said you need to relax and stop causing problems i dont care who you are "Streets" you do not need to act like this...see above post for contact info if you really want to meet face to face to talk to me if not then relax and just have fun.

I thought there might be a typo. However, I'm curious about the weight of your car. To ge 147 MPH with 450 HP at the rear wheels, your car would need to weigh in at about 2100 Lbs. That's a pretty light Camaro.

I'm not really doubting your word, but Newton had a pretty good handle on physics, and the numbers aren't working out.

Henry, i am not saying you are doubting my word bud, lot of people find it hard to believe and i dont blame them, what ever ii can do to help prove it to you let me know.
The car weighs little over 2700 lbs the photo is not the most recent photo, i am having one of the team members photograph the car this weekend and the engine again as well the photo of the engine the one that was posted is not very good but we are going to try again and now you will be able to see the difference in the car from how it looks in this photo... we removed as much weight as we could but, still have alot to do to it. i want to try to keep it looking pretty you know? in the new photo you will see some of the things we did to the exterior we will put it on the lift and take photos of under carriage as well.