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I basically want to know what steps you guys took in learning about cars and what questions you asked to get to where you are today?
If you didn't know, I'm trying to get started with cars and start building a hot rod, but I don't know anything about it. I am trying to take this opportunity to learn from you guys as to what steps to take. Thanks guys.
Baby!!Quote:
Originally posted by Timastyle
I basically want to know what steps you guys took in learning about cars ...........
I was 5 yrs old my dad picked me up set me inside the engine bay of our 66 pontiac bonnieville we rebuilt the top end I just started all the bolt and other lite stuff he did all the other man . My mom was pissed I had greace and oil from head to toe :D :D :LOL: :toocool:
That's really it, as far as my story goes; baby steps. I, like a lot of others, started "fixin' " stuff when I was real young; since before I can truly remember. I had a curious streak, and was always taking things apart, and since my dad was not so inclined, I had to learn how to put them back together, on my own, most of the time. There was a teenager across the street from us who worked on his Whizzer motor bikes, and motorcycles, and I was always pestering him, and a man down the street who did a lot of his own auto work, and I was always in his hair. I took the engine off of my dad's first power mower, and fit it up to my coaster wagon, and got my butt beat, and then had to fix the mower. Those were different times, though. I really did not get any serious formal training, until I was in high school, and could take metal shop, and auto shop, and then I got only the real basic fundamentals. The U. S. Navy taught me how to make airplanes work, and after I got out of the service, I went to junior college on the GI Bill. In order to keep my benefits at full pay, I filled in my schedule with Auto Tech classes, and finally learned, formally, a lot of the things I had already figured out. Throughout all of this, I always had a car or bike, and always tinkered with them.Quote:
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Originally posted by Timastyle
I basically want to know what steps you guys took in learning about cars ...........
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Baby!!
All of this is leading to what I want to try to get across to you. You seem to have the desire, but you also appear to be a little cautious about just getting in there and doing it. That's really what you need to do; get a project, and experiment. If you get it apart, then you must figure out how to put it back together, and make it work, again. If you find a mentor, so much the better, but you can learn much, just by applying your God given intelligence. I don't know if the junior colleges around that area, PCC, LACC, Glendale, Citrus (I hope you are in California), have auto tech classes anymore, but check, and if they do, get into them. Go to evening high school, if they have the classes. But above all, don't be afraid to do your best, make mistakes, fix those mistakes, and take the lessons they can teach you.
Nobody had all of their knowledge and ability from the very start; they had to learn it, and earn it. And I don't think there is one man here who will claim to know it all; I certainly don't, and I have been messing with stuff for a long time. I wish you the very best. This hobby needs all of the young blood it can get.
Thanks Rrumbler. I am not really cautious into taking the steps. It's just that I want to take the RIGHT steps instead of wasting my time. Do you suggest any particular thing to start disassebling/reassembling? Do you think a car is the first thing I should get into, or should I start on a smaller scale and work my way up to a car? If smaller, what do you suggest?
I looked into going to PCC, and they do have auto tech classes in the evenings which I'll probably start taking. I also wanted to take a welding class too, but they are in the mornings and unfortunately, because of work, I can't make those. I am looking around to see if I can find any classes in the evenings somewhere else maybe. Do you know of any maybe?
I also wanted to know what high schools have these classes or where I can find them.
For a little more background on me...
I am a very quick learner. I have the capacity to absorb the information. The best way I learn is by seeing someone do it and while I'm watching what they are doing, create the image in my head. Then, I need to try it on my own. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I'm 26.
I started out helping my dad change the oil, spark plugs and all that easy stuff on his 67 BelAir when I was little, Thats all my dad knew how to do with cars, the rest I learned watching my great uncles work on the farm trucks and tearing things apart and remembering how they worked before I tore them apart, Anything that was electrical or had a motor lasted me only about a week before I tore it down, Needless to say they rarely worked after that, My first real project was when I was 16 and bought a car that was to be used for a dirt track racer, I was taking an auto mech class at that time learning how to rebuild trannies. Bought it from a guy in the class and started stripping it down and prepping the body for the body shop, That car made me learn real fast about prepping bare metal, doing minor fiberglass repairs, all stuff I learned from my uncle spending the summers in his body shop watching him. That camaro also was my learning block for everything else, our family mechanic had just retired around that time so my dad asked him to come over to take a look at the car and what I was doing, he spent the next week over there with me showing me how to set the timing, rebuild a carb, and many other small repairs. A few years later after I got out of the military the car lost all power, was backfiring under load, couldn't get it above 15mph going to work one day, well stupid me thought the engine with its 186k miles on it had finally given out, so I went out bought a crate 327 to replace the 350 and started the swap not knowing what I was doing, only thing I had to go on was a chiltons manual and a champion video on pulling an engine, well a week later the engine was swapped and the car was back on the street. The family mechanic came over and looked at the old engine and told me only thing wrong with it was the timing chain jumped.
I guess what I am trying to say is my steps on getting the knowledge to do all this is just a love for working on cars and finding people that are willing to show me little things as I go, Also there are a lot of great books out there that will help you out and teach you a few things, but the best teacher I had was just going out there and doing something on the car and learing from my mistakes, I knew what I screwed up a mechanic could fix, Sometimes its a costly lesson but now I rarely have to take a car to a mechanic unless its fuel injected.
Trial and error are the best teachers I have found out. If you can't afford to pay a mechanic to fix your mistakes start on something smaller like an old lawn mower engine or an old motorcycle, Engines are basically the same concept, start from the bottom and work your way up to the more complex engine motor.
Hey Tim, the school deal is a great idea. Try to meet some car guys in your area, hang out with them, listen and learn. When a buddy is working on his car, be there to help. Even if it's nothing more then handing the guy wrenches and cleaning parts. Any see-feel- touch you can do on cars will be a plus. I remember as a kid sweeping floors, cleaning tools, and doing whatever I had to do hanging out in a guys race shop. I learned a ton from him and we are still good friends today and shoot ideas back an forth on various projects. Oh yeah, by the age of 13 I was renowned as one hell of a good floor sweeper, tool picker-upper, and car washer!!!! Through it all, I gained a great background on racing and hot rodding. When I started on my own projects, the guys I had helped were more than ready to provide knowledge, ideas, and occasionaly some used parts for my cars.
I think most of us were born with a natural curiosity about mechanical things. It seems a little strange to me that you didn't get bit for 26 years. That doesn't mean you can't learn but I had more than 20 years of experience at your age. I started helping my dad work on his 34 Packard when I was 5.
I was always taking things apart to see how they worked and how they were designed. I decided early in life that I wasn't going to repair clocks or watches because I could never get them back together.
I spent my allowance and lawn mowing money on popular mechanics and popular science magazines that I read from cover to cover. When I was 10 I discovered hot rod magazines and I knew I could do that if I had more money.
When I was 12 I owned a 39 Olds coupe with no reverse gear and a 49 Ford coupe with no wheels. My tools were a screwdriver and a pair of pliers so not much was acomplished. When I had to move I sold the Olds for $30 and gave the Ford to a friend.
I spent the next few years working on bicycles for myself and friends. When I was 15 we moved again. My neighbor had a Fiat dragster and his friends all drove hot rods so I spent most of my free time volunteering to help with the Fiat. He raced on Sunday and after school Monday I would help disassemble the blown Hemi engine and wash each part in soapy water and dry them so he could inspect them for wear before reassembly. I wasn't allowed to assemble anything. The only way he could be sure it was right was if he did it himself.
Taking courses at nights is a good idea but to get some hands on experience I would suggest you get an old car that's headed for the junkyard and start taking it apart. Some people will give them away to get rid of them. The price of junk is up right now though so there are a lot of people competing for the junk. You might have to pay $50 for something to tinker on. Take apart the door and window mechanism. It can be quite a challenge to get them back into operating condition. Then try the carburetor, alternator and starter. Take off some body parts and put them back. If you run into problems just ask here and someone might be able to help. A few auto repair manuals will also be a great help. If you can't put something back together just toss it in the trunk and start on something else. If you plan to junk the car when you're done then you don't have to worry about screwing something up beyond repair.
Think about getting a job in a body shop or a new car dealer and you can learn from your co-workers.
This is all good advice. The only thing I would like to add is READ! Read everything you can related to what you want to learn.
I started taking my toys apart and putting them back together when I was very small. Later on I became the neighborhood bicycle expert. I was always right there whenever my dad was doing anything to the family cars, too (he was quite a good mechanic). All through those times I was reading and re-reading the car magazines that my older sisters' boyfriends gave me.
When I was 15 I went to work in a cousin's body shop and learned skills I still use today. During college I worked as a mechanic doing increasingly more difficult things as my skills and knowledge grew. It seemed the more I learned, the more I wanted to know and since I couldn't personally DO everything myself all at once, I satisfied that hunger by reading.
Today I am a skilled fabricator and welder and a pretty good mechanic. My forte is frames and suspension systems. Am I still reading? You bet. I have a few reference manuals that come in handy, but I get most of my info about the latest trends and technology from my car magazines. I subscribe to 6 different publications and I read all the tech articles. I've been playing with cars for over 40 years now and building hotrods and stock cars for over 30 and I'm still learning...
Growing up on a farm I learned out of necessity. I could never understand why people brought their cars and trucks to a repair shop. Where I grew up Dad fixed everything and I just thought that's what everybody did. Every kid wants to be like his Dad, so I was always anxious to do my own mechanical stuff. Wasn't always right, and may have been cheaper at times to just take it to a mechanic, but that's how ya' learn. Sooner or later ya' figure out the right way to do things.
Oops
My first experience I don't even remember. Apparently when I was in the crib I took it apart in order to get out. When I was a wee kid, I helped my dad with repairing his old motorcycle. When I got old enough to drive the only vehicle I could afford was an old beat up Ford F100. When I got it it was in bad shape, and being only 16 I had no major source of income, so I had to repair it myself. I did the top end with no help(and thought I was being slick by tightening the heads down with the push rods in place... you can guess what happened the first time I started it up). Then I started reading the manuals, and learned more about how I was supposed to do it. I just kept tinkering around with everything that broke on it(It was a Ford, so I had plenty of things to fix). In order to be cool I had to have a better driving truck, so I kept making improvements, and then more improvements, until the day I forgot to set the brake next to a cliff(it didn't roll when i got out of it, but when I came back there was only a set of tire tracks that led to the cliff edge and a crumpled mass of steel at the bottom of the cliff). That was a LONG walk home. Well being the kind of guy I was I bought another junker, and fixed it up to the point of being able to drive it, and just kept going from there.
Lots of good insight guys. Where would I go look for old junkers that people would want to get rid of or even sell for $50? The small problem I would have with that is the fact that I wouldn't really have anywhere to keep it. I am in a townhouse right now with a 2 car garage, but as it is, we have 3 cars at the moment and the driver of one of them won't put it on the street so that I can take over the garage. With that said, I would at least need a running car to be able to move it every now and again so that it doesn't get towed. Plus, there's no parking on my street on thursdays for cleaning for 4 hours, so I'd have to move it so I don't get a $50 ticket every thursday. With that said, where do you guys think I should look to find a good project car? What tools would I need to get started? Links would be helpfull of the tools. Thanks again guys. You are a lot of help.
I have another set of questions...
What are the steps in fixing up a hot rod? What I mean by this is where do you start first? Do you work on the body, then move to the engine and tranny or do you start with the engine, tranny, etc.?
I would think getting the car in good running shape with the engine and tranny should be the first place to start, then moving along to the body and the interior. Am I right on this?
Kinda' depends what you plan for the car. If you want to completely rebuild from the ground up I would start with the chassis and build from there. If your just going to tweak it a little I would get it mechanically sound first then work on the cosmetic stuff.
According to some that would be correct, my cars don't get driven until they are done, paint and upholstery included. I've got daily drivers, no reason to put a half done car on the road.
when you say working on the chassis first, what is there to be done on the chassis?
something strange iz' happnin' to my posts. I was agreeing with Dave about the unfinished rod driving thang. Like moving into an unfinished house, ... once you settle in it's hard to finished it. 2 times it disappeared when I posted. Anyway to answer your question, that too depends on the degree of rebuild, what you want to end up with when your done. You might make upgrade modifications like suspension changes, etc. or you might build an entirely new chassis from scratch.
i guess with my question on the chassis is this...
How do I know what's good and what's not with the chassis?
To start with if your going to use the original frame, you should inspect it for stress cracks, make repairs or decide if is worth saving. Then make any modifications (That depends entirely on you) as long as the modifications are roadworthy. Don't put a death trap on the road. I would recommend doing some research and decide what you want to end up with. Then go to shows and talk to rodders. Talk to them. tell them what you have in mind or get ideas from them. Have a plan. You can always change your plan as you go along, but I would still have a plan of what you want it to look like and what you will use the car for before you start. You know what they say. Gotta have a map if you want to know were you're going. He HE He:)
sounds like a plan
any ideas on what tools I should invest in to start off with? Please provide some links too
Tim, main tools you will need are a good set of wrenches, sockets, compressor and tools for that (not a neccessity but useful) welder (this is for repairing body panels and rewelding frame) cutter for removing frame brackets, jack and stands, Engine stand and hoist, These are the tools I have needed so far on my rebuild. also for engine work you will need a ridge reamer, torque wrench, and other tools depending on the need, most of these tools can be rented at the auto parts store as they can be expensive.
what would all these tools cost me?
is gas welding i would need to learn for fabrication? If not, what tupe of welding do I need to learn
I don't know your gender or your age, so don't take this the wrong way.Quote:
Originally posted by Timastyle
I basically want to know what steps you guys took in learning about cars and what questions you asked to get to where you are today?
If you didn't know, I'm trying to get started with cars and start building a hot rod, but I don't know anything about it. I am trying to take this opportunity to learn from you guys as to what steps to take. Thanks guys.
I would suggest that if you are still in School, taking an Autoshop course if your school offers one.
Sure they'll have some dorky 60s' flicks explaining how a modern(yeah okay)combustion engine works, but there is no better place to start.
Then I suggest a metal shop course if it isn't included in your Auto course.
Mine had both.
Of course then I also grew up next to gearheads(my Uncle has ties to early NASCAR as well as the Bay Area Rod Scene)and so I got to learn by watching.
Also I suggest picking up several mags...
Hot Rod, Street Rodding, Street Rod Building, Mopar Muscle(biased choice here) and Popular Hot Rodding.
There is nothing better in my opinion than(learningwise)reading how things are done while getting a heavy dose of pictures to look at. It gives you something to strive for when you go out to turn your first wrench on your project.
I'm 26 and am finished with school. If you read my earlier replies here, you would get some info about me and what i know.
Gas or "Acetylene" welding is probably one of the EASIEST methods to learn.Quote:
Originally posted by Timastyle
is gas welding i would need to learn for fabrication? If not, what tupe of welding do I need to learn
I posted earlier that you should take a metal shop course. You will learn most types of welding and fabrication there.
And I believe some may not agree that Acetylene welding is probably best. Especially if it has ANYTHING to do with body fab and repair work.
Less chance of thinning and warping the metal due to excessive heat.
If you are already out of school you might look into a shop class at your local College or JC.:3dSMILE:
Ahhh okay I didn't mean to infer anything though.Quote:
Originally posted by Timastyle
I'm 26 and am finished with school. If you read my earlier replies here, you would get some info about me and what i know.
Best thing is to take a shop course at the local college if you have no knowledge on how to do something auto related.
I don't know what College tuition is in California at the moment but you should be able to find a reasonably priced course at a JC.
Anyway I hope that you weren't offended, I'm sorta new here and I'm working around the board trying to figure this site out.:3dSMILE:
Not offended at all and I didn't mean to seem as though I was rude. I am looking into going to my local JC for courses. I am going to take auto fundamentals and I want to take a welding course as well. The cost is $26/unit. The 2 classes will be 8 units, so if you do the math, I think its well work it. $208 for 2 very helpful courses, that is if the teachers know what they are talking about. I think it's too late to start in the Fall semester, but I am definately going to go for the Winter Semester. In the mean time, I want to learn as much as I can on my own. I think once I get the car I want to work on, I can then progress in my knowledge. I'll then have something to work on and learn. One of my coworkers, he's 59, knows about engines and such, but he doesn't have the time to teach me really. I am trying to get on his case to help me out. Maybe I might be able to get him to come around.
Here's some other info about me...
Because of my fast driving, my license is suspended for a year and a half, and I want to take that time in building a hot rod. Do you guys think its possible to make a project car come to life in that period of time? If not complete, I want it to be driveable so that I may use it as a mode of transportation. What do you think?
Getting your own project is a great though sometimes intimidating way to learn. I highly reccomend that.Quote:
Originally posted by Timastyle
Not offended at all and I didn't mean to seem as though I was rude. I am looking into going to my local JC for courses. I am going to take auto fundamentals and I want to take a welding course as well. The cost is $26/unit. The 2 classes will be 8 units, so if you do the math, I think its well work it. $208 for 2 very helpful courses, that is if the teachers know what they are talking about. I think it's too late to start in the Fall semester, but I am definately going to go for the Winter Semester. In the mean time, I want to learn as much as I can on my own. I think once I get the car I want to work on, I can then progress in my knowledge. I'll then have something to work on and learn. One of my coworkers, he's 59, knows about engines and such, but he doesn't have the time to teach me really. I am trying to get on his case to help me out. Maybe I might be able to get him to come around.
Here's some other info about me...
Because of my fast driving, my license is suspended for a year and a half, and I want to take that time in building a hot rod. Do you guys think its possible to make a project car come to life in that period of time? If not complete, I want it to be driveable so that I may use it as a mode of transportation. What do you think?
As far as your coworker. Why not drop a well timed hint that if he works on his that you would be more than happy to lend some assistance.
He probably knows quite a bit but sometimes having another pair of hands to help is nice.
Especially if you sport the beer;)
To answer your second question...
Sorry to hear about your liscence. Are you sure you want a hotrod?:D
Just kidding.
Nothing wrong with driveable. I suggest that you work on the mechanicals before jumping in feet first to appearance.
Some people hate what are considered "Rat Rides" but if you look under the hood those guys usually have a mechanically sound motor, strong tranny/rear differential, and decent brakes and tires under the fenders.
I recently got a '54 Savoy that I'm gonna have bathed inspected and primed. While the body and chasis is being dealt with I'm gonna be working on the mechanicals.
It has a stock flat 6 and 3 on the tree(MT) but I'm gonna replace it with a 318/727 Torqueflite combo.
I've also seen some damned good lookin metal that couldn't get out of their own way if you strapped a rocket to their @$$ and gave them a 10 mile headstart.
Glad to hear about the shop course. You should get ahold of their syllabus early so that you can start picking up the items they require also.
good thought on the syllabus. I will try and get that.
As for the a rat rod, that's kind of what I'll be going for. I am interested in getting a 32 roadster (if I can find one). I have a fairly vague idea of how I want it to be, but I'm sure more ideas and my creativity will come out as soon as I have the car in front of me and see what I'm up against. I was planning on getting the engine, tranny and all the mechanics in order first before I did anything else myself. If I can't drive it, it's not worth wasting my time on.
That's the way to go especially with a 32 A car.
Are you thinking Ford or are you gonna be traiterous. ;)
I love Chevy but with all the new parts available for Ford and Chrysler products, it is such a shame to see a car so highly detailed on the outside only to open the hood and see Small Block Chevy locomotion in it.
Not to mention that things like that make it hard for everyone else to get quality bolt ons for anything other than Chevy.
That's just my though having worked as a Parts guy. :HMMM:
I have a bit of vision for the deuce, but I need to find one in decent shape and go from there. I need help in finding one
Being as you practically trip over L.A. and are but a hop skip and a jump to Pheonix you are in PRIME steel zone.
Arm yourself an AutoSeller type of publication, found in most any convience stop an rob.
If there aren't any in there don't give up hope. There is always someone selling. you just gotta have faith and patience that what they are asking isn't too much for what the car is actually worth.
In the case of my Savoy I found it in a field at my friends fiancees folks house. At the time I thought that it was a Ford until I investigated it. Turns out that it has everything and found out that her mom was wanting to sell it. Got it for $900.
Not bad considering the motor and Tranny are STILL in the car and the clock reads 80k with the first zero firmly in the correct position.
I hope to have it here soon since it's on 4 flats and I gotta get tires worthy of holding air. lol
Sometimes timing is everything.
I'll keep looking in there. I look every day through www.collectorcartraderonline.com and www.recycler.com to try and find a hot rod that's priced fair enough. What do you guys think the price range should be for a 32 roadster
Generally I would say that a "basket case" is worth what it has. If all you have is body and frame anywhere from $250 to $500 depending entirely on the condition it is in.
Roliing stock is definitely worth more. As much as $1500 by some sellers standards.
But I wouldn't pay no more than $1500 for a decent project car unless it's in a restorable condition.
Here is an example. In the latest "Truck Trader under $6k" in my area there is an ad for two Willy's 4x pickups. One whole and one for parts. The whole one comes with a bone stock Tornado motor.
Asking price is a Grand. Extremely surprising considering that up here in the NW, Willy's are HIGHLY sought after.
Best rule of thumb is "whatever you feel comfortable with in relation to the asking price".
A bare 32 Ford frame in useable condition goes for $1000 to $1500 around here. A useable steel 32 Ford roadster body would run around $3000 to $5000 depending on condition. The Grille shells go for $500 on ebay. Go to ebay and do a search for 32 Fords you'll see that they ain't cheap and there are no bargains.
I tried a search on google for a 32 roadster, but there aren't any project type cars or anything that's in the price range of up to $5000. I don't know where else to look. I know I can go to swap meets ad try to find them there, but is there anywhere online? I'd love to have a pic of a project 32 and figure out how I'd want it to look.
A google search is nothing like an ebay search. Try this link.
http://www.motors.ebay.com/