How can I get my '32 Ford to hook up better???

....Hello Everyone ;)... my '32 Ford weights 2450 pounds, has 499 Ft. Lb's of Tq. @ 4000 RPM & 460 HP @5400 RPM.... A Turbo 400 trans w/ manual shift, reverse pattern, trans brake w/ a 2500 stall {app}. Tires are 10" wide cheater slicks with a 4 link rear suspension {non-adjustable}. It now has a 3.0 single track rear end. This week I'm going to go with a lower gear posi unit. Coming out of the hole it just FRIES the tires. Posi will help this but lower {numerally higher} gears won't. How much difference will the posi make???... Anyway, what can I do to get the car to 'hook up' better??? If I install brackets so that the 4 link is adjustable will this solve the problem??? Also I'm thinking of going to 12" wide wheels {10" on it now} so that I can use 12" wide cheater slicks instead of 10's. Will tires that are 2" wider make that much difference??? Funny cuz when I was getting together the parts to build the motor I wanted MORE, MORE, MORE HP but now I can't hook up what I have!!! ;0 THANKS ;) Bill

When you start going to bigger, stickier tires and better hooking, stuff starts to break. What rear end are you running?


Don

The posi should help. How much pressure are you running in the tires? As Don said, too much hook and you could be breaking some parts. Some of the parallel 4 bars have some pretty flimsy brackets and they will bend quite easily. What rate spring on the colovers? Too stiff a spring won't allow any weight transfer from front to rear....

Exactly what tire are you using. Are they real slicks or cheaters with tread?

.....woops, left off a lot of info; ok, I can't get a link attached but They are from Hurst Tires in Oregon. They are recapped on Goodyear Wrangler Radials. 10 x 30 x 15. with race compound rubber & a durometer reading of 65 cold & 50 hot {what does this mean?}. They have the 'pie crust' sides on them & are done with the original molds from the 60's. Smooth tires with 2 small groves going around the tire. The guy up there said not to run any less than 28 pounds in the tires {I told him the details on the car & that's what I put in them}. The tires I'm thinking of going to are M & H cheater slicks. 12" wide, wrinkle wall with HB-11 compound {?}. The rear end is a 9" Ford w/31 spline axles. Right now it's a 3.0 with single track. I've got a 9" modular iron center section in my back yard with an aluminum pinion set up. I am going to replace the spool with a posi unit & have it set up to match my 31 spline axles {it's set up for 35 spline now}. I talked to Strange Engineering & they said the 31 spline axles were enough for the combo I have. I will find out what the rating is for the rear springs tomorrow & re-post.... I will beef up the coil over brackets if I have to {& thanks for the warning ;). I already have a 4 link set up that was from Art Morrision that is really heavy duty. I'll use this if I have to. And would a roll bar help??? I don't want to go to a cage. Oh, when I had the transmission built I said I wanted to be able to handle 1000 HP so it should be strong enough. And I will have a stronger drive shaft built....... THANKS EVEYONE!!! ;) Bill
ps, what would you guys recommend; a True Track, True Lock or a Detroit Locker??? or ???

Just a thought, but have you considered looking at the front end of the car? Are you getting the weight transfer from a good front end rise when you launch? Maybe swapping in a set of 90/10 shocks for the front end on the weekends you head to the track could help.

My 32 does fairly well in the launch dept.
3.70 open diff.
Rear tires are fairly soft radials about 9" wide.

A big part of it was learning to drive it.
Dragstrip launches don't work well on the street.
If fact, a dragstrip only car doesn't launch well on the street . . . my little brothers 8.13 second Henry J would fry the slicks on a regular asphalt (private) road when it was running high 10's.

Different cars call for different techniques, but what works well on my 520# torque 462" Buick engined 32 is to roll the throttle on fairly hard, maybe halfway, determine if the tires are spinning and if not, roll in throttle until 4500 rpm or so is reached then shift to second.
Short shifting a high torque street car works well.

Another thing to watch for is if the tires start slipping while still in 1st and the throttle is coming down.
If that happens, shift to 2nd without lifting and see if the tires are going to keep spinning.
Most times you can keep going with the throttle depression until it's floored, but if you get 2nd gear tire spin you need to back pedal a touch.

High torque, lightweight cars on the street are a whole other ball game.
No more the stab it and steer it bit.
A bit of finesse is required.

Along with all that, pay attention to the road surface.
If it's an old asphalt road, you'll find the oil/tar substance is below the level of the rocks/gravel in the mix.
The rocks get polished and there's not much traction.
Especially true with asphalt roads in desert areas.

Roll-on's in 2nd and high gear from 25 - 35 mph work well.

Keep in mind that some lockers will create a car-goes-straight situation if the throttle is depressed firmly when the wheels are turned more than a little bit.
(Detroit Lockers seem to be the worst offenders.)
If you're entering a highway, get most of the turn completed then roll the throttle on.

You're probably aware that a firm application of throttle in a tight right turn will unload the right rear wheel so you have to watch it there.
The right rear unloads when accellerating straight ahead, but the effect is more pronounced on a turn.

I should put a locker in the 32, but the open is working well.

I do have a 3.25 Auburn locker in my 31 on 32 rails roadster.
It has 6" wide tires.
Should be interesting and it should give the 32 a run for the money . . . 60 more HP and 100#-200# lighter....

My guess would be a combination of weight transfer (springs and shocks) as well as tires.

What springs and shocks do you have - this might tell part of the tail.

Goodyear Wranglers are unforgiving truck tires with a weight rating that reflects that(what does the side wall say). They are horrible tires on a truck and even as recaps, I wouldn't touch them for a 2400 pound car. I've had them as OEM tires on several pickups and can't wait to get rid of them, usually LONG before they wear out. The compound gets so hard that they become rigid. Take a look at Tire Rack for ratings. This, since I'm not sure which one you have, this is for Wrangler RT/S: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....rangler+RT%2FS

People generally dislike them - with a passion:HMMM:

And when it's all over, any car to launch well like a strip car needs a fair amount of dial in and often it is trial and error. and a short wheelbase, very light car such as a '32 often needs even more work.

C9x is thinkin' what I'm thinkin' about the right rear unloading. A front motor, rear drive car will get light on the left front and right rear, the right front and left rear get heavy. What I've done before and have seen other racers do with a one-legger rear is to use an air shock on the right rear only and adjust the pressure until both rears lay down the same stripe. The car will be easier to drive with a wedged one-legger than it will with a posi.

The recaps you have, are "show car" tires and not really designed for drag racing. If you go to a real drag slick or a DOT drag slick you will notice a big difference in traction. Caldwell Tires in Pasadena used to be the place to buy recap slicks in the Los Angeles area years ago, but they are now gone.

We have had great racing success with M&H tires. They are sensitive to air pressure changes and need a good burnout before going to the line. We run our slicks tubeless and you will be surprised how much lighter they will be than your recap tires when installed. Just call the national M&H distributor Hashim's in Bakersfield, CA and ask for John Hashim. Nobody knows more than John who has been in the game a long time. Tell him The Palmer's VW team recommended you.

I also agree that putting more spring weight on the right rear will help out on our launch with an open diferential. Maybe look into a stiffer rate coil spring on that corner if running a coilover four bar set up? I always felt that if you could set-up the car to launch well with a open differential (by correcting corner weight), then going to a limited slip would be the best set-up.

Tech's comment about pre-loading an open diff car's rear axle - and sometimes the left front - is an excellent point.

As a small fwiw, both my roadsters have the battery mounted low in the frame, right side in front of the rear axle.
May as well put the weight where it will do some good.

Back in the day, little brother and I ran a C/Gas car - 50 Ford coupe w/built Olds Rocket motor.

Traction aids were:
Recap slicks, hard ones, this was just a couple years before wrinkle-wall slicks came out.
Open 4.27 diff.
Traction Masters - home-made, they look like the bottom half of a four bar setup: they control wheel hop and aren't much in the chassis tuning dept.
A couple of aluminum spacer blocks in the left front coil to put some weight there.
Air Lifts - an air bag inside a weak coil spring that goes between frame and rear axle. Air Lifts were designed as a load carrying assist device, but it wasn't long until the drag racers figured out what they were really good for.

We 'tuned' the chassis by doing short burnouts at the back corner of the dragstrip and taking note of the tire marks.
Black all the way across indicated proper tire inflation - dark in the center = too much air, dark on the outside edges = not enough air.
Comparing the black tire marks from one side to the other, if one was darker than the other, that indicated too much weight on that tire and conversely, not enough weight on the other.
Adding or subtracting air pressure from the Air Lifts would even out the marks.

Results with the early daze chassis tuning stuff meant that we could launch against a posi equipped car that didn't have a particularly well tuned chassis and hold our own.

It didn't take the other guys long to learn though and once they went the air lift weight jacking bit things got tough.
When they bought wrinkle wall slicks and we were still running our old-style hard recap slicks things were pretty much all over for us.

You may want to keep in mind how little wet weather traction there is with slicks - or cheater slicks - run on the street.
As well as many of today's soft, wide, fat radials work quite well in street use when installed in powerful lightweight coupe/roadster type cars....

....WOW, this is a lot of info for me to digest! THANKS for ALL the replys.... ;)..... I need to start out with the 'less expensive' ideas & go from there. I had this same motor {less 20 HP} in a 2850 pound Camaro & all I did was put a traction bar set up on it, posi rear, & real wrinkle wall slicks. To drive it I just put it in drive, punched it & held the wheel straight. 400 pounds less makes a WHOLE lot a difference. A TOTALLY different animal!!!... Yes, I need to work on driving technique. I tried the 'feathering the throddle' & 'punching it from a roll' yesterday & it works a lot better {actually pretty good}.... I was supprised to hear that even all out drag race cars DON'T hook well on the street! My battery is right behind the rear seat in the center. May be I should move it to the trunk & over the right rear tire? But the fuel cell is in the trunk so I'm leary of putting the battery there. I'm going to get the lower geared posi & then try the tuning methods r/e; looking at the burn out marks to make sure they are evenly colored on both sides. Although I didn't realize that the posi unit will handle differently in a 2450 pound car verus a 2850 pound car.
After I do this stuff I'll try the M & H tires. I didn't reallize that I have 'show tires'. May be that's WHY they look so good!!! I least I like the look!!! .....
I don't know that I want 'the look' with an air shock on one side. So I'll try the other stuff first. Although the stiffer rear spring on the right side is an option....
THANKS again, Bill

You can take tha air shocks and set them up as individuals instead of in a pair. that way you can adjust the Air Pressure in one side and it wont effect the other. If you lower the right side by 5-10 lbs it will change the way the car hooks dramatically. (This will allow more movement in the suspension and in effect transfer more weight to that side)


There is a drawback to this as it makes the ride a little weird. The right rear will feel like it has a broken spring or a really soft spring. Easy fix is to have your air shocks attached to a mini air compressor with pressure guages and release valves. You can make adjustments on the fly without ever getting out of the drivers seat!


And to get to the issue of the battery in the trunk with the fuel cell. If the Cell is properly vented and the battery is located in a secured battery box you shold be OK. We have a 22 gal fuel cell sitting right next to our Optima battry in the racecar and have never had any issues. Even when I welded my wedding ring to the frame with my finger still in the ring! (Long and painful story)

Not sure if I've posted this before.

Battery box made from 1" x 2" rectangular tubing.

It works well in this location.
I use an Optima nowaday, but the original battery was a DieHard.
Since it's cool under the body - as compared to the engine compt. - I only had to add water twice in about a 4 year period.

Cables are no problem.
There are insulated bulkhead fittings available - Speedway for one - and you can combine standard length battery cables to get to the solenoid/starter.

Cable from battery to master disconnect switch, cable from switch to supply panel/Ford solenoid under the seat, cable from Ford solenoid to GM solenoid at the starter.
Works well . . . use the large #1 cable.

Same deal for the ground cable, ground it several places on the frame and especially ground the engine to the frame.

Here's something from chassis school that helps understand a little about four link, ladder bar set up. By no means is this complete instructional material, just a quick overview of what set ups do upon launch etc.I cropped it down a bit. If it's not readable, I apologize in advance.

OOO:D OOO good stuff there for sure!

I still have to get the hang of resizing. I followed the recommended pixel reduction you mentioned and got a bit nervous in going too small. I'll learn to take your word for it some day. Then again, I have always had to learn the hard way :LOL:

Nice Denny, I was worried about the clarity. On paper it's very nice, but as I worked it (with my limited patience) it was distorting. Besides, I figured age is creeping up on most of us and I wanted us old men to be able to read it.....:LOL:LOL:

....humm, why can't you just adjust the bars to the drag race setting??? {bottom bar level, top bar pointed down}. Is there a down side to this??? Thanks, Bill

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Originally Posted by billlsbird

....humm, why can't you just adjust the bars to the drag race setting??? {bottom bar level, top bar pointed down}. Is there a down side to this??? Thanks, Bill

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Because the pinion angle will change as the rear axle travels up and down.

Even so, the change will be small and imo won't hurt anything.

I'm looking forward to running the drag race 4 link on my 31 with the bars parallel as is recommended for street use and then dropping the top bar one or two holes.
Traction may be improved - although with the skinny tires and torquey engine who could tell. :LOL:

Take note that at least one of the aftermarket outfits makes a street oriented rear 4 bar setup with differing length bars upper and lower as a matter of convenience.
The bottom bar is shorter by a fairly good distance.
The guys running these don't seem to have any problems vis a vis the pinion angle change they create.

O.K. here is my two cents worth. When I was racing Pro Stock this is something you live with everyday you are at the track. We Had portable scales and a whole bunch of crap that you really don't need. You can accomplish the same thing with trial and error. The imaginary intersection of the 4 link depends on weight distribution front to rear. Ideally you don't want squat or rise, this is lost motion, you want to go forward as quickly as possible. Most importantly you want the car to go straight, so the pre load on the bars is critical.This is were you see a car lift the left front tire first in a twistig motion. The way we set that is with you in the car exactly the way you will race. Assuming you have right and left hand treads on your 4 link bars, and assuming you have aligned the rear end in the car square, loosen the jam nuts on the top left bar and have them turn it until there is no pre load at all on that bar. You should be be able to slip the bolt in and out freely. This will allow the front of the car to rise parallel to the ground and go straight. There are other ways of doing this, this is just the way we did it. If you get all this figured out and it's working really good cut your 4 link out and put a 3 link in it, that will really drive you nuts. :LOL: :LOL: :3dSMILE:

.....C9X, who makes the 4 link for the street??? THANKS everyone for your imput!!! ;) Bill

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Originally Posted by billlsbird

.....C9X, who makes the 4 link for the street??? THANKS everyone for your imput!!! ;) Bill

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Deuce Factory: http://www.deucefactory.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=133

Chris Alston Chassis Works: https://www.cachassisworks.com/iwwid...ti_item_submit

The Chris Alston Chassis Works is the 4 link I'm using.
1 1/4" bars which are overkill on the street, but the car started out to be a dry lakes race car then it was decided to put it on the street.

The rod ends on the C.A. 4 link are very nice and imo better suited for street use than the usual polyurethane bushings and rings you see on most street oriented stuff.
Seems like the chrome plated bars weren't too much extra.


4 bars aren't too difficult to make.
The hardest part is threading them.
Much easier - and safer - doing it in a lathe.

The rear 4 bars and rear panhard on my 32 are home-made and work well.
You can save some time and it doesn't really cost much if you buy brackets from a manufacturer.
Peruse the catalogs and select appropriate brackets.
(The rear 4 bar brackets on my 32 are Alston* ladder bar brackets cut down and a new top hole drilled slightly lower.)
*Alston - used to be run by Tom Alston - was the forerunner to the Chris Alston Chassis Works outfit and may still be in business on a smaller scale.


The differing length 4 bars are offered by several street rod manufacturers.

....Update!; ok, first thing I did was switch tires to Hoosier Pro Street size; 31 x 12.5 x 15. The car not only 'hooks' better but also rides a 100% better than with the Hurst Cheaters! I decided against the M & H's simply because I want to go with something that is without a doubt 'street-able'. The reason for this is I ran over a PLASTIC mop bucket on the freeway & it tore a 4" x 10" piece out of my Hurst Cheater Slicks! The bucket stuck between the tire & the body & before I could stop it'd done extensive damage. So when tires such as the M & H cheaters say "not for street use" on them I'm going to listen!!! I'll update as I change things. THANKS Everyone! ;) And I'm going to order Chris Alston's Chassis Book. Bill