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Curious what thoughts were on engine setback for my 'maro. Wheelbase is 101". Rear end is a 9" with triangulated 4 bar. Engine will be a big block chebbie with a 5 speed transmission.... Not going drag race only on the car, kind of want to get a bit more weight to the rear of the car to help handling some.... Any ideas how much more engine setback would help, and how much aft of the spindle centerline would be a good spot to park the engine????
how far can you get it back with out setting in the back seat ? ? hell them car did not have much back seat sit in the back seat:D. as far as how much i would push it as far as i could go with out getting in to much pain
OH dave i have a donovan alum engine i can sell you .. ... NO BS:( I NEED TO SELL SOME STUFF
I know Pat!!! Got to get my pickup sold, no reason to try to make a deal with you now, too broke!!!!
Anyway, on the 'maro. The back seat area is already taken up with the upper bars for the four link....had to make them adjustable, ya know.... Firewall is not much of an issue, probably should find out how far forward I can get the shifter on the TKO trans. I think Mike Forte sells the forward shifter relocation kit....
Oh yeah, with the 5 speed, gotta keep the torque below 600 ft. lbs. so I don't break the tranny on the first pass!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:
As you move the engine back you will start to have issues with first distributor clearance and the carb/manifold to windshield
Firewall is already cut, fabbing a new front crossmember so I can get the engine down a bit, too.....
DAVE the distriburtor is not a any deal with the 632 donovan it has a belt drive and you can run off that for the dist. by the way it was on a digital scale from intake to pan 450 pounds :DQuote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
That would be kewl!!!! I've got a crank trigger setup anyway, just need the BBC distributor part for it.... but the Donovan would be way, way kewl!!!! How the heck could you keep the torque below 600 though???? Gotta have my trusty 5 speed, can't be going shiftless this late in life!!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
the water pump hub center line the the front wheel spindle :D now that a start the one in the black GTO was 8inchs back or more front cowl was gone :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
pull some spark pull wires :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
I've got a sbc mocked up in it now, it's back about 9" from the spindle centerline....Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
BBC aprox 2 inches longer---
is that a front or rear steer set up?
with a front mount rack--------!!!!!!!VW radiator, lite wt starter, thin wall headers,no heater/A-c, skinny wheels/brakes, alum hubs , trunk battery
i would think that would be good the alum bbc will be about the same as a sbc with alum heads . iron big block or a iron tall deck with alum heads is 588 with a chevy bow tie block. the dart big M would be bit more . so moving it back some more would help .get it on the scales and see were your at. the lb is now .would be nice to mock it up so you could slip it back and forth .to see were you would be with what block your going to use. you could do it with math .when you get the basic weigth down get it back to far you will not need a drive shaft just a coupler:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry clayton
It's a front mount rack now, Jerry.... I have a dual pass aluminum radiator for it along with a bunch of other goodies... May have to do some oil pan and pickup mods, make the pan wider and not as tall.... Not sure yet, got a block coming next week to do some fitting with....
pan as to be a bit deeper for the 4.750 crankQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Yeah, I have to get the suspension back under it and put it on the scales again... When I started with a 305 and 700R4, the car weighed 3170... I've taken 160 lbs off the front end and about the same out of the interior, plus did away with a lot of extra junk all over the car. Front and rear is coilover now along with 4 wheel disc brakes.... I'm thinking it will come in around 2600 with a big block and aluminum heads..... Seem reasonable???Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
the old GTO was guted like a fish and that came in at 2900 with out me.i think you may get there but on mine there was 300 i did not know were it came from :LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
I was keeping track of the weight I took off, then had to interrupt the project with other things and now working out at the other shop again and managed to lose the notebook I had everything written down in. I was really surprised how much the rear hatch and bumpers weighed, so naturally I threw them away!!!! The steering box and all the tie rods, etc weigh about 5 times as much as the aluminum rack that replaced them and on and on. Once I get started I just can't seem to stop!!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:
Big problem now, as usual I have money wrapped up in about 5 different projects and have to get one done and sold so I can work on the next!!!!!! Maybe I'll learn someday, but I doubt it!!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:
\How much weight would the aluminum block save??????
Dave, my #1 plug is 4" behind the spindle.
& I'm @ 1764 Lbs. well.....so far. I DO have some parts to put on it yet. :LOL:
Thanks Pro.... Have you calculated what 4" setback does on the percentage of front to rear weight????Quote:
Originally Posted by pro70z28
How much deeper, Pat???? I'm doing my mock up with the truck pan and pickup..... (mid 70's Suburban with a 454)Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
It's been over a year since I last scaled the car. I have the info. somewhere. Too much other stuff taking up my time.
I know what you mean, Pro!!!!! Not even sure I could find my scales right now.....one guy borrows them, then they move around to a bunch of the other circle burners and finally they make it home about mid-June!!!!!:LOL::LOL::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by pro70z28
well add 1 inch more but more is allways better i going to change out the oil in the gto this week i can get back to you on pan numbers on that .you may find some from moroso?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
That would be easy!!!! Usually I wind up modifying an existing pan to fit the car!!! Nobody ever seems to make a pan or headers to fit what I'm building......... :eek::eek::eek::LOL:Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
well the pan in the gto is one i made for the donovan. i just do not know how deep. it was the least i could get away with and still have some cross over left yes i built headers to:whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
The 'maro is gonna be low and there's no exhaust room under the car anyhow.... Considering building some fenderwell headers and sidepipes for it, similar to the old big block Vette's..... Maybe even cover them with some "ground effects" panels and a turnout at the end like some of the late model Mustang body kits...... Don't know yet, want to get a block mocked up in the car first, then start planning the rest...
yep i know this no room under them cars. i did a ex on one .just one was all it took .. the drives side has no kick up like the pass side has . i would do the headers out the wells and side pipesQuote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson
Think I'll have to Pat.... Just no room to get anything decent under the car, especially anything big enough to work with a BBC.....Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
oval tubing. but still would be a pain and the you still have to run some type of muffers. you would have to run a y pipe off the headers .run it down the pass side and still get it out side of the car .if you want it low to the ground . or cut the floor build the ex. then build floor back over it
Yeah, thought of that, too. Think the outsiders will end up being easier to build and should certainly be more efficient for the engine.... I did what you suggest on Joe's Camaro with the LS engine....2 1/2" from the headers to a Y pipe, then 3" to the rear axle, another y pipe, and dual 2 1/2" pipes out the back. Worked out good, sounds great, but just seems like to much restriction.... With the outsiders, would be simple to run step headers and/or 4 into 2 into 1 Tri-y's or 4 into 2 into 1 merge collectors..... Think I'll do the outsiders, maybe even send them off and have them coated?????Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
out side will work the best .i think if you did aY to oval 4 1/2 inch then back to a y mufflers out. it would work good i wanted to do a big oval ex for the gto but the car just is not that low. it sure would be cool . but it is $$ there is somethings i will spend money on if i can see it .i tell you on the chevy the car sit low in the front .i never cut the k trans crossover out was to strong to take out .so the ex kick down to the headers and kick back up over the cross member was not a big deal with small ex like 2 1/2 but with the 4 it down. it just cheap steel tubing. the roads are so bad that i use it as a skid plate ever now and then better then my oil pan:whacked:
My "Z" is 47" tall. I can just slide my fist under the 4" collectors. Step headers pretty much fills all the available space inside the front tires to frame, but they still clear turning the wheel lock to lock. . Crank centerline is 11'' to the floor. The headers dump outside the 2''x3'' frame rails so I plan to run exhaust behind the rocker panels and cut a notch in the rocker in front of the rear tires to exit the body. It's all very close under there. :eek:
I plan to put steel floor pans in (So I don't need a 20 Suit) Then I'll put an aluminum floor on the bottom side of the cage tubes just between the frame rail & the rocker tube. That will give me an 1 1/2'' air gap as an insulator to keep the floor a little cooler. Sort of a heat shield for the pipes.
Thanks for the numbers, Pro... What size are your primary tubes and collectors????
Dave, they are 2.25''-2.375'' step tubes with a 4'' collector. I would have gone 5'' to give the pro charger plenty of breathing room but under car clearance is already tight with the 4''.
Thanks Pro. Thinking a 4 1/2" collector for mine, maybe the 4 into 2 into 1 stuff, too. Ran them on a 514" Ford a few years back, seemed to help the bottom end (60' times dropped half a tenth), suppose it helps a similar sized BBC the same?????
Got an email from Mike Forte, he has the shifter for the TKO's that is located 12" back of the block, which would work fine where I have the sbc mocked up now so that'll work ok on the trans. If a big block is 2" longer then a small block, the front of the block will be about 3 1/2" back of the spindle centerline as things are mocked up now.....
you can build step headers 2 1/4 to 2 3/8 but if your running a ex 4inch collector is all you will ever need i think.no need to go bigger you will have a hard time with them if your going under the floor pan. for the primary length of 36 or less but thats hard to do some times. if that trans will not take more then 600 tq i would not want to build to much bottom end
Just spent some time this afternoon doing some measuring Pat.... No way a 3 1/2" collector would work under the car..... Looks like they're going to be outsiders..... No step needed with a 4" collector???? Kewl, less tubing to buy!!!!:LOL::LOL: Should be able to lazy up the cam enough to keep the torque below 600, right????Quote:
Originally Posted by pat mccarthy
well you can step them but you could just build 2 3/8 to 4 inch thats what i have done in the past:D if i do the big engine looking to do just a 2 3/8 i do not need the power any ways . i am getting old took my chevy out last week just a short rip down the road . i forgot how fast that thing was:eek: things pass by you faster the older you get:whacked:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Severson