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Thread: comp or crane
          
   
   

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  1. #16
    techinspector1's Avatar
    techinspector1 is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Denny has alluded to two of the problems as I see it. One is current oil formulations and the other is the importation of offshore lifters. Most of these lifters are soft and they go first, then take out the cam lobe.

    If I were going to build another motor with flat tappets (which I won't), I would use the most expensive lifter money could buy, such as the armored lifters which have a coating of stellite on their faces. I'd use Shell Rotella or RPM Delo oil and add GM Engine Oil Supplement on every oil change.

    I also would not, under any circumstances, use a "extreme" type of camshaft that snaps the valves open and closed. I'd instead opt for a cam with very slow ramps to ease the valve open and closed. When you're looking at cams, subtract the 0.050" duration from the advertised duration. The difference will tell you the sum of the opening and closing ramps from 0.006" to 0.050", 1/2 of it on the opening side and 1/2 on the closing side (assuming a symetrical grind).

    For instance, if the cam is rated 280 degrees at advertised and 240 degrees at 0.050" tappet lift, that is only 40 degrees of ramp to lift the tappet 0.050" from about 0.006", 20 degrees on each side. Another cam rated at 280 and 220 would provide 30 degrees of ramp on the opening and 30 degrees on the closing side, producing less pressure over the same amount of time at the interface of the cam lobe/lifter crown. This radical lift rate is not only 0.006" to 0.050", but continues through the rest of the lift. We don't have the figures for the rest of the lift though, so we can only calculate what we do know.

    Making a little more power with a "snappy" valve action makes no sense if you're going to have to pull the motor down for complete cleaning and re-purchase cam and lifters.

    One other thought while I'm on this: The lifters MUST...MUST...MUST be able to freely rotate in their bores. When I'm building a motor, I lightly oil the lifters and with the motor sitting so that the lifter bores are vertical on the engine stand, drop them into the bores. If they don't slide through at a pretty good clip into my other hand to catch them, I will hone the lifter bores until they do.

    One more thought (I might keep doing this all day), use the springs that are recommended by the cam grinder for the particular cam you're going to use. I know some of you buy heads assembled and don't give a second thought to the on-seat or valve-open spring pressures.

    Some of you may prove me wrong, but that's the way my common sense tells me to go.
    Last edited by techinspector1; 07-24-2007 at 03:21 PM.
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  2. #17
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Man, this camshaft with bad lobes stuff is getting old!!!! Looks like roller cams are about the only way to go anymore....unless you like changing cams and cleaning up the innards of your engine!!!

    Also, a note on what Tech said... I too believe in taking the cam manufacturer's advice on springs, etc. Mis-matching components is a wreck waiting to happen inside the engine!!! What I prefer, is make friends with a good engine man, and listen to his advice!!!! Just picking parts at random and hoping they perform right together doesn't work. The best valve train in the world is worthless if the ports are too large, etc.... We're lucky on CHR to have some really first rate engine builders!!!! I tend to listen to them rather then the old so-and-so runs a whatever in his and sez it's the best.... Have a plan when you build the engine, and match the components to the plan......
    Last edited by Dave Severson; 07-24-2007 at 08:42 PM.
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
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  3. #18
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    I run synthetic oil, Mobil 1. Never have had a problem with rollers or rockers....The Mustang has over 40,000 on it since it was freshened, not all of them have been easy cruising miles, either... We had Mobil for a sponsor the last 3 years we ran sprinters and never had a bearing related failure!~!!!! and that was back in '79!!!!!
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
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    Learning must be difficult for those who already know it all!!!!

  4. #19
    pat mccarthy's Avatar
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    do not kid your self denny alot of this stuff is not made in the usa and if so only thing is the lable . i have posted many times on not to use a flat lifter cams in a big block i have seen them fail long before they took out the zinc out of oil . i was talking to a rod company said some of the usa rod companys rods are getting ship in from over sea. and tech you can not get the GM EOS any more
    Last edited by pat mccarthy; 07-25-2007 at 05:48 AM.
    Irish Diplomacy ..the ability to tell someone to go to Hell ,,So that they will look forward to to the trip

  5. #20
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennyW
    My past experience with people that ran Mobil 1 was it looked like they were using the old non-detergent oil. You know how that oil would leave the big goooyyy mess, were you couldn't tell were the parts were ??

    I have always used Havoline, and Never had any problems with that oil. On flat tappet cam and lifters also. I still use either that, or the Valvoline.
    Maybe someone who switched from conventional oil in a high mileage engine, but certainly not on a fresh engine that has had Mobil 1 since break in.... I change my filter and add a quart after 4,000, change all the oil and filter at 8,000 and the engine is still nice and clean inside. All the rest of the engines I ran on Mobil 1 were the same..... Havoline and Valvoline are both good oils, but I think I'll stick with Mobil 1.....
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
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  6. #21
    pat mccarthy's Avatar
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    i also see guys say i got killer deal on this cam? like a crane or a lunati or edelbrock i know there are big cam grinders that grind cams for alot of the cam companys. there was a time when i could get a cam for a big block that was the same cam that lunati made?or sold ? thru elgin for 1/2 the cost of the lunati ? i would bet that someone has ship cam grinders over sea and could be making alot of the run of the mill flat lifter cams?????
    Irish Diplomacy ..the ability to tell someone to go to Hell ,,So that they will look forward to to the trip

  7. #22
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    Post deleted by author.
    Last edited by techinspector1; 07-28-2007 at 11:47 PM.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennyW
    Heres your reply Techie baby !!

    So, you are just like I thought you were !! I'm pretty good at hitting on that stuff.

    I wanted to get the right definition from what you said (alluded). I now have that very thing. !! Techie is a bad-a$$ !!

    I am up in your face asking what you meant by that. You can grow anything you want to, at any time. You tried to make a deal with me?? NO, we made a deal together, and twice, you have addressed MY Name first, or said I was wrong. But yet, I don't see the proof, you just don't answer on some. Please don't let it pass, I like discussing things with you, and bringing the real You out. I'm not miffed by you, or amazed !! I never said anything about your posts that you write up !! Even though, they are long, boring some times, and you talk way above a beginners understanding, especially, if they are new to this stuff. Why do I tell you this you wonder ?? Because it is called being truthful to someone you know. . Maybe you forget, I'm not a child. You say you called me on a few things ?? Well, I just did about your meaning of alludded, and this is your reply to me ?? You can think or do what ever you want, it just shows me that you would make a poor friend for me, myself, to have, and don't really care if you want to be friends or not. As far as replies, I told you the last time, reply on what you want, it's not my site, or yours !! As far as me being wrong on things, yes, I have admitted it, but maybe you simply missed it. I'm not to often wrong on things, since you brought it up. The carb thing is true, and the info was posted, not even by me. Someone else answered that very thing before I could answer it about the Holley jetting and cfm. No, I'm not going to look it up for you either. I thought you read it, since you never replied then. Well, you didn't reply either way, so I thought you just wanted to let it pass.

    All I did was ask which meaning you meant on a word ??

    ((And then there are your pitiful attempts at getting yourself stroked by remarking that you don't think anyone appreciates you anymore. You've done that 2 or 3 times that I know of.))

    Now, your way out of line You can kiss my a$$ bud !! That was simply asking if the members thought I should stay on here or not ?? You done this yourself once that I remember. The group here can vote me out anytime they want to !!! Another reason for asking the group. If I'm not wanted, or people think I'm not a good member, they can TELL me so at anytime. Majority rules, you know. I didn't see YOUR vote on it !! I would loose yours anyway. No, I mean, I wouldn't see your vote, good or bad.

    ((Right now, I'm so damned mad that if you were in front of me, I'd slap hell out of you.))

    You never want to tell a vet that !!! If you tried, or did, you would only do it once, as I never turn the other cheek !! And, it would not bother me if you did....try !!

    ((DO NOT RESPOND TO ANYTHING I WRITE ANYMORE AND I'LL RETURN THE FAVOR. I'M THROUGH WITH HAVING TO CODDLE YOU LIKE A CHILD. Grow the hell up and get some backbone or don't play. ))

    THAT IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN !!! I will make a point to check everything you post, and make sure you have it correct !!! And, then again, I may not say anything, you never know with a child like me. You really shouldn't talk like that to me RICHARD. I am grown up. I have seen and done many things, and am not afraid. You don't see me running scared, hiding in the corner, and not replying, do you ?? Yes, if you were here, we could have it out for sure. I try to think on here before I reply, because of the very fact of words that can be said from far away. I try never to say anything negative, but there are times, like now that things for what ever reason, seem to go the wrong way. I don't care if you reply, ask me why, or give info to anyone, anywhere. Just when you try to be-little me, you will get it right back.

    ((I may regret having said this tomorrow, but for right now, I'm bangin' the "Submit Reply" button and if the Moderators want to ban me for saying what I've said, so be it, I was lookin' for a forum when I showed up here.))

    That's funny as hell !!

    How many beers did you have ?? I can only have 1 a week now !!

    I am now hitting the submit button.... 5...4...3...2...1

    ps: What's the name of that song ?? Oh, You Don't Own Me.

    I also see you are not true in your words. What I mean by that is, you say you will let things pass, make amends, but when even this simple thing comes up, asking what a word means, you take offense to just me asking. That tells me also that you are a lier, and do not drop any type of hard feelings, and still carry a gridge against me. That's fine with me also, your not the only one that feels that way. I do not need any help figuring any automotive things out from yourself. So that should take a load off your mind.
    Do you think both you boy's could have your pi$$ing contest somewhere else?
    Both of you add a lot of context to this site.
    I value both of your opinion's on any and all automotive matters.
    I would welcome you guy's at any time in my shop.
    Both of you have been " Hot rodder's " many more years than I have been.
    Can we both shake hands and put this behind us?

  9. #24
    383 chev's Avatar
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    i am with Erik on this one. if we didnt have our views, points and opinions we'd all prolly be in caves still

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennyW
    Thank you Erik, but I didn't come off the deep end, or did I ? I don't see where I said anything to him personally. And he knows I joke around all the time. And why would you quote my post, instead of Techie's ? Just asking ?
    I meant to post both of your post's.
    No I don't think you went off the deep end.
    We all have different ideas of how things work and why they work the way they do.
    I alway's try and consider the source.
    There are some people on here that a clueless but Richard is not one of those people he just made a mistake.
    I can't speak for Richard, but if I made a mistake I would like to be told about in a PM rather than in the forum it's self.
    I am very quick to call BS and I am also very judmental sometimes,I guess it comes from about 20 years of listening to people "bench race".
    My goal is to try be more understanding of people of where they are coming from.
    I have been told this from my wife and others over the years that I should work on this.
    I am told it is not what I say but how I say it.
    I think this is what might of bothered Richard.
    Last edited by erik erikson; 07-25-2007 at 06:42 PM.

  11. #26
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Oh come on....Is being right REALLY that important????? Maybe we should all have "sensitivity training" before we join CHR??????? Geez....
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
    Carroll Shelby

    Learning must be difficult for those who already know it all!!!!

  12. #27
    Dave Severson is offline CHR Member/Contributor Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennyW
    If your talking to me Dave, you really need a few courses yourself.

    It's time I quit anyway. Goodbye to all, and a hidy ho.
    Let's just maybe stick with cars!!!!! I never claimed or tried to be correct, politically or otherwise!!!!!!
    Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, Live for Today!
    Carroll Shelby

    Learning must be difficult for those who already know it all!!!!

  13. #28
    500caddy is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    Holy Chit All I Can Say Is Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  14. #29
    FFM
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Last edited by FFM; 09-25-2008 at 12:07 AM.

  15. #30
    500caddy is offline CHR Member Visit my Photo Gallery
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    is that at idle ?? 7-12

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