Thread: comp or crane

Tweet

I have a 402 that I have rebuilt and I am looking at a crane powermax 272 or the comp 268 extreme energy. Does anyone have any experience with either of these cams? I think the comp will have a little more lope. Both cams were put on the desktop dyno and the crane has 9 more hp and the comp has 8 more lb of torque. thanks for any help.

Denny I have to ask. Why the hardness. I understand why they hardend them i ground camshafts for years and ran them through welduction machines.
And i know that different manufactures have different rockwells. What does it mean to someone building an engine or or picking a camshaft?

Originally Posted by 383 chev

Denny I have to ask. Why the hardness. I understand why they hardend them i ground camshafts for years and ran them through welduction machines.
And i know that different manufactures have different rockwells. What does it mean to someone building an engine or or picking a camshaft?

Flat tappet cams have recently had a huge problem of lobes "going flat" during break-in. As I understand it, it's because of the manufacturers removal of zinc out of our motor oils for emmissions purpose.

I'd bet Denny tought is deeper hardening might be a preventative for this problem? Just a thought.

Torque is the name of the game on a big block, I'd go with Comp. Because of the break-in issues cited, when you do the cam break in do it with some very light weight springs with low pressure!!! Or, go to a roller cam and you don't have to fight the break in battle....

hahahah Denny $50.00 over 200.00. you are so right but let me tell ya about the G.M mark up i ground lt4 hot cams along with some other service cams. I asked one day i said if i was interested in thios lt4 cam what could u sell it to me for they said $53.00 i said huh 53 or 153 nope 53 i said eff gm they want $230.00 for a cam that i grind and they buy for $53 how can gm be that broke when they are 127% markup. well any way the lt4 cam had a rockwell hardness of min. 52 max. 65. my question now is if something is gonna give somethings gonna give right so if the cams isnt hard enough the cam lobe wipes out. what if its harder wont it eventually start wearing away at the lifter and once that happens the lobe will eventually be gone also

Originally Posted by DennyW

Theres a lot of talk about the oils, and which cam to use. I see one of the problems, especially on the manufacturers about this issue. You all know how a car manufacturer just hates to spend money on some .50 cent piece to prevent roll overs, because it adds up on the number of cars they produce. Well, changing the methods of the way cam hardness is, may be the same way. I mean if you buy a camshaft for 50.00 bucks, and you could have got the same lift and grind for 200.00 bucks, of course you want the one for 50.00 bucks. The 200.00 dollar one takes more man hours, and a blend of things (layered material) to perfect. But, you have to contend with specific break-in procedures, or it goes flat right away on that 50.00 cam. In the early days, I never had to change a Ford cam. The hardness was over .060 thou thick, where as the Chevy cams were only a mere .032, or less. This didn't go flat from improper breakin, and the oils were fine back then. I'm talking at 30,000 miles I was changing camshafts, and they changed oil regularly also. I checked.

OK, the zinc is missing, and that is a problem, but, in all the oil specs I have read, and read about additives, there is nothing that beats good old base oil, the base of it all. All the additives, of course, are for acid, sludge, moisture, viscosity, and so forth. Things had to be added to prolong the oil, and the engines life. The manufacturers warranty, in order to sell you the car. They don't want to spend money on repairs, but they do want to sell the car. Same as any other thing you buy. Most people look for how long the warranty is. I do also. That tells me by that, that they have most likely done enough to make it go at least that long before it breaks.

Heres a link to Cranes site, just a little reading for ya, it's about rollers, but still good info, and they have some new lifter stuff you might want to read about, covers a little Mopar also:
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=newsLetters&no=421

Denny,one area you did'nt point out was how most of the Fords where oiled in the cam area before the Chevy.
Another point would be most of the Fords use a larger lifter dia.
I.M.O. these two aspects helped to save the Ford cams.

i have always had great luck on break-ins. In the past, i used crane cams with good results. The tech guys, are more friendly than the guys I have spoken to at comp. I do hear that those extreme energy grinds are great cams. The car will be street driven. Thanks for your help.

Originally Posted by DennyW

Yes, that is true. I didn't want to say that cause it might have looked like I was picking on the Chevy oiling system.

That's why you have to get the clearances right for the engine you are building. If you put the clearances to loose on the bottom end of a Chevy, you will starve the cam and lifter area. If you think about it, the cam bearing to cam clearances are pretty slim, on either engine type, but the Chevy will die on top if the bottom is not right. That's why when someone asked if 20 lbs is ok, I'm thinking, not.

Or, just switch to a Blue Oval, and forget the silly chebbie problems!!!!!!!!!

I have the 268 xe cam in my mud drag pickup, works great, just doesn't pull as much vacuum as I wanted it to for the rules. On break in I had the stock valve springs and I used Rotella 15w-40 on break-in. No problems. I have 10.25 compression, 781 casting heads good power could always use more though.

Hey Denny, Good to see you are still here. I am nearing my writing distraction and should be back working on the car in a month or so. I just wanted to comment that I had my engine (mild 350) built by a local circle track racer who built many SBC 400s and I requested a Comp 268 but he would not let me buy a Comp cam saying he had too much grief with Comp cams and the Crane was a better bet so I ended up with a mild Crane. There may just be a series of bad events behind his preference but I had to respect his long experience.

Don Shillady
Retired Scientist/teen rodder

I've had a Comp cam in for about 17 years with no problems. Maybe problems with Comp are more recent than that. If I ever needed another, Crane would probably get the nod as many of my friends have been using them very succesfully of late.

Have you looked at other brands like lunati or isky? if not why not? just woundering...

There is only one camshaft core company that make Hyd and Solid flat tappet
core. If you notice there is CWC casted on all cam core. There is two types is core you can buy to grind flat tappet cams One it like most cams you buy now the other one is harder surface for Racing alppication

Well, I've found out what Denny is talking about. My Competition Cams 268 in the 390 has a flat lobe. It happened not on break in but with over 3000 miles on the cam. Was going to go with Crane, but I found another site on line that has two interesting cams available for FE's. www.survivalmotorsports.com

Has anyone ever dealt with Survival Motor Sports before?

I've used several house brand PAW cams (Performance Auto Warehouse) and when they came they were in a plain box but had a Crane timing card inside. I spoke to a Crane tech guy one time, and he sheepishly admitted they private label cams for PAW, among others. The price from PAW was really good, even with lifters. I asked him if they were different than the regular Crane cams, and he quietly said "no, but you didn't hear it from me."

As for the huge markup you guys are talking about, that is very common in lots of industries. When I was in the marine retail business, our $ 15.99 gallon of boat soap cost me $3.00, and that was not dead cost. The company charged the employees a slightly higher price to cover freight and handling. Clothing was another biggie........I paid $ 20 for $ 65 shorts all the time, sometimes less.

It's the AMERICAN WAY.