Thread: 454 500hp!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by dmw56

To get 500hp out of an 80s 454 truck engine is going to cost you way more than if you just buy a GM crate engine with 500hp to start with.

But if you have more cash than you know what to do with go for it. The first thing you'll need to do is throw those heads away or save them for boat anchors. Get yourself some good aftermarket heads. Get a complete engine rebuld kit with all forged parts and some high compression pistons. Find a good machine shop and get building.

i do not want to plug my shop well just a wee bit i know i can get you more bang for the buck over a crate engine anyday like others have said if you do not build engines or know what to look for then your just throwing good money away most guys for street use will not know it whey have 420hp or 500 if it bit them in the ass for street use you build for off idle use and max tq i would take TQ over hp and day hp is just for braging rigths i work thru many cams with a dyno soft ware and years of what i know what just will not work stock rods stock crank iron or steel and a hyper or forged will work

Originally Posted by 1nkred1ble

thanks joe and everybody else for the positive feedback, as for you henry your very much entitled to your 2 cents.
but what strikes me is that its much more gratifying for you to take the time in writing a extremely detailed paragraph with not one bit of useful nor positive information then to just help a fella out, its more satisfying for you to discourage somebody that has no clue on what he is doing but is taking the initiative in teaching himself something that most people in the culture have been doing for a very long time, i bet you have never been the type of guy to be casually strolling by a forum thread or a race track and had something insightful to say.
you rather be pointing out all the bad all negative rather then to lend a hand. but hey whattttever floats your boat.
for your information i have done research, hence the decision to go with a bigger engine then the stock 350 that it came with. have i read or bought books? how about 4. So please dont be so quick to judge somebody just because you might know a thing or about valves & cam's .

Funny thing is you also started the same type of thread, around the same date on www.Chevelles.com At that point in time you were told by many members there as well to get some books and start reading; and at that point in time you didnt have ANY books! Now you have 4? You were also told nobody could possible give you all the inside info and educate you how to build and entire motor from an online forum. It appears you want the product/knowledge for nothing, and little to no work on your part.

What Henry told you on here is the best advice you got. Reason is this..if you think your gonna disassemble you motor drop off the parts and just aseemble and drop it in, I say go for it...and you will fail. Im hardly a novice, but have far less experience than most on here. Im telling you it took me 20 years of helping my old man, watching my others, volunteering to help for nothing and reading anything I could get my hands on to where Im at knowledge wise with building motors. during college I would work Saturdays for free at a machine shop around the block from my house just to learn and pick the brains of the old timers. You have to put your time in to learn! Its not a do it yourself kit that always goes together with basic socket set. Do you follow? Your next post on here should be weeks/months from now after you have purchased all the books tech inspector listed, and once you have read them all I bet your attitude will have changed.

i agree with all the guys,you will get all kinds of info.and most of the time not the right info that you want. everybody will have their own ideas except the what you are wanting. it is best to study up on what you like and that way you will know whats going on. if you can learn how to do most of the work yourself it will be rewarding and you will enjoy it more and also save a bundle of cash as well.

Heck, just get Pat to put you together a 496 short block, get a good set of aluminum heads, and you have the 500 hp easy......

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Heck, just get Pat to put you together a 496 short block, get a good set of aluminum heads, and you have the 500 hp easy......

So very true regarding the above statement, and I would not hesitate in an instant to buy a motor from Pat for my car if I didnt enjoy building it myself so much. In fact I think I would trust and have more confidence on that initial start up on a motor done by Pat than myself.

He could buy from Pat, but with high performance engines when something goes wrong, which always does if you beat the motor enough, or when he needs to adjust the vavles, or tune the carb, adjust the timing or breaks down on the side of the road whats he gonna do then?

Dont get me wrong, if his pockets are real deep he can always call a flat bed, have someone else tune and maintain his car....but old cars always need a lot of attention and work...most of us afford our hobby by learning to do ourselves.

I hop ethis guy is a fantastic sucess with his engine build...It just seems he wants to build the motor and have all of his information and smarts learned from Forums...doesnt want to pay his dues with research, reading and hands on trial and error like most of us have done.

"doesnt want to pay his dues with research, reading and hands on trial and error like most of us have done."

I would have killed 30 years ago for something like the net .It would have saved me THOUSANDS from trial and error.The net IS a good thing for info. There are many more experianced w combo's that work online than all of my experiance put together. BUT all of it must be taken w a grain of salt and adjusted to fit your particular situation. He IS researching,but you are right it will never replace experiance. Books will never replace it either. Again they are just base lines.

There are a lot of very smart and experienced people on this forum. They give good advice.

I do, however, understand your desire to build your own engine. I just assembled a 460" BB that made 518 HP. Here for you to consider is the recipe that I used.

Scat rotating assembly with a cast steel crank, I beam forged rods and KB pistons (12cc dome). I ordered it balance with a flexplate and front damper.

GM Gen Vi big port cast heads ordered from Indy cylinder head with 2.25 intakes & 1.88 exhaust. Heads were drilled and tapped for 7/16 studs and came assembled with springs for use with a roller cam and ARP studs.

1985 Chevy block (out of a K30) with 4 bolt mains. Tanked and cleaned the block and bored it 030 over. Line bored the mains and used ARP studs.

Added a Comp Cams HR 290 cam, lifters and pushrods with roller rockers.

The rest is basics, good oil pump, premium gaskets, a single plane intake and a 750 Holley.

Whatever you decide to do, take your time, have fun and spend for quality machine work.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by 30-A Rider

I hop ethis guy is a fantastic sucess with his engine build...It just seems he wants to build the motor and have all of his information and smarts learned from Forums...doesnt want to pay his dues with research, reading and hands on trial and error like most of us have done.

I don't know.... I sure as heck don't stay current on all the new engine stuff anymore, no need to.... I've got a guy that does my Ford engines, all the machining, balancing, mockup for blueprinting, flows the heads, knows all the best bang for the buck pieces.... Heck, I have a tough enough time just staying current on chassis and suspension.....

I guess it depends on what type of engine you're putting together, if it's just a streeter for a daily driver, the basics are fine but if it's something that's going to be getting some serious use I can either spend hours and hours studying what's hot and what's not, or just have someone who does it all day long everyday do it for me....

Maybe I get too "specialized", but I learned long ago that it's much more better to have a fresh bullet built by an expert that will perform to my expectations first time out then have to spend a lot of time doing everything myself, and maybe being wrong.....

I've got price proprosals on a BBC for the 'maro from Pat and Erik both, I can't even come close to putting a chebbie together for what these experts will do it for me!!!! Sometimes getting the most for your money means deferring to the experts!!!! I get a whole lot more satisfaction from being fast with someone else's engine to being slow with one of my own!!!! For what Pat will build me a complete short block for, I wouldn't even have all the parts bought and preliminary machine work done......

Hey guys, this is a very interesting thread. About 10 years ago when my youngest was 14 I thought it would be a great bonding experience for the 2 of us to rebuild and improve an '82 trans am. The best thing that happened with that build was I found out how little I knew and that I could find the answers to all of my questions on the internet. Since that time I have completed 4 additional builds. My last two I actually did the machine work. I have made many mistakes, asked many questions. Not only to you guys but also the many great people I have met over the years.
The thing that gets me are the people on this and other forums who want to make engine building out to be too difficult for us mere mortals to even attempt. This is not brain surgery. If some one doesn't like the questions we ask, just move on. Don't lecture. It'll be ok. 99% of the people I have commuicated with through these forums love to help and I greatly appreciate them.
Again thanks for being here for guys like me.

WELL THANKS FOR THE KIND WORDS DAVE & 30-A RIDER .here is the bottom line on bbc the stock bottom end will take 500 EZ we.. by that being everone that i knew at that time .when i started building bbc were used stock rods with SPS bolts no studs no 4 bolt mains and i know damn well we were going past 6500 rpm with ash tray TRW pistons. cranks were more that you had in front of you at the time of build .i used steel GM and iron stockers cut them for what ever size would clean them up to. i all ways used good push rods at the time they were made here in BC and there were not hard to find i used 7/16. i had a good friend grind my cranks for the size we wanted most of the time loose was fast .heads i used rect port that i re work or big O ports heads with big valves and did used some solid cams flat lifter cams. but i step up to rollers in the late 80s on the street there is many ways to go and some stuff is cheaper now to buy new rods and crank but some of the stuff still needs a tune up. with out a machine shop your pissing in the wind. thats were i can do that ever i want for size bottom line your only as good as your machine shop. at the time i work hand in hand with them .i did not used lot of fancy parts allways put money in the oil pan and in the top end alot of prep work .i had the best durability as any one out there or better .i had one 468 that rpm like a chain saw all low dollar parts but new rework GM rect port head i beat the hell out of it sold the bottom end to a hill climber to build a street 548 in the mild 90s for the street they used it in two or more trucks for sand hill and mud runner still has stock rods trw pistons two bolt block stock gm bolts they never took out the bottom end and not for any lack of trying alot may say it ez stuff to just buy a big box of parts and throw it together with some friends in a day . bull$hit.you start pushing past stock hp numbers and rpms you better know how to prep stuff and what to look for.and good machine work . i look at a blow up bbc any chance to look at failed parts open my ears up to anyone that open there mouth a bout how to build a better bottom end or if they would say what they did wrong ..i still do ... i prep all my stuff AND CHECK IT LIKE IT WAS RUNNING AT WOT IN A OFFSHORE BOAT for 800+hp all day long .looking at things and thinking how to make it better that you do not get. on line or in any book good luck

Originally Posted by Rgtrough

Hey guys, this is a very interesting thread. About 10 years ago when my youngest was 14 I thought it would be a great bonding experience for the 2 of us to rebuild and improve an '82 trans am. The best thing that happened with that build was I found out how little I knew and that I could find the answers to all of my questions on the internet. Since that time I have completed 4 additional builds. My last two I actually did the machine work. I have made many mistakes, asked many questions. Not only to you guys but also the many great people I have met over the years.
The thing that gets me are the people on this and other forums who want to make engine building out to be too difficult for us mere mortals to even attempt. This is not brain surgery. If some one doesn't like the questions we ask, just move on. Don't lecture. It'll be ok. 99% of the people I have commuicated with through these forums love to help and I greatly appreciate them.
Again thanks for being here for guys like me.

Your post doesn't specify....is this stock engines or building something that will maximize the power output of the parts used???? There is a huge difference in the parts used and the skills required....

You're fortunate that you somehow had access to all the necessary equipment to do the machine work, few people do. Many years ago I worked as an automotive machinist, did all the boring, honing, decking, align boring, balancing, clearancing, blueprinting, flow bench, etc..... I would love to have access to all this stuff again, without having to make the huge investment it takes to own it..... As with anything, even with the equipment available, I would be on a steep learning curve to get up to date on what's "the best bang for the buck" today....

Originally Posted by Dave Severson

Your post doesn't specify....is this stock engines or building something that will maximize the power output of the parts used???? There is a huge difference in the parts used and the skills required....

You're fortunate that you somehow had access to all the necessary equipment to do the machine work, few people do. Many years ago I worked as an automotive machinist, did all the boring, honing, decking, align boring, balancing, clearancing, blueprinting, flow bench, etc..... I would love to have access to all this stuff again, without having to make the huge investment it takes to own it..... As with anything, even with the equipment available, I would be on a steep learning curve to get up to date on what's "the best bang for the buck" today....

AMEN
every one builds races engines. i would just like to pay bills.. stock rebuilds pay a hell of alot more.. the small amount of money at the time of the build you have to pay someone like me. is the best money you would spend there things that get check that you may not have the tools to check.less you want to shell out 3000+ for tools for checking size for a shop i have some nice used and new stuff and some stuff i built myself . i know i would have to find 100.000 or so to get to the next level ?? hard to justify when you can not get the money to short block a low dollar build

Hey Dave, my last three builds have been specific builds for the type vehicle that it was going in and the use of said vehicles. High torque high hp 383 stroker with AFR heads, 6" Carrillo rods Probe forged pistons Scat 4340 crank complete roller motor Comp cam pushrods and rockers. This is in a '74 Corvette coupe that is an absolute ball to drive. I have dyno numbers that back up my sweat and tears.
The build I'm finishing up right now is a build based on the zz4 crate engine. I used alot of used parts for this build stock cast crank turned .020 5.7" 305 rods reconditioned flat top speed pro forged pistons. After ruining my World Sportsman II heads during bowl blending I ended up buying a set of bare Patriot alumimiun heads. This engine is going into a '86 shortbed GMC daily driver.
My local community college offers a high performance engine building class that features all the different machines that are needed to perform these builds at a very afforable price. Your grade depends on how close to your initial goal your completed build turns out. It's great

Originally Posted by Rgtrough

Hey Dave, my last three builds have been specific builds for the type vehicle that it was going in and the use of said vehicles. High torque high hp 383 stroker with AFR heads, 6" Carrillo rods Probe forged pistons Scat 4340 crank complete roller motor Comp cam pushrods and rockers. This is in a '74 Corvette coupe that is an absolute ball to drive. I have dyno numbers that back up my sweat and tears.
The build I'm finishing up right now is a build based on the zz4 crate engine. I used alot of used parts for this build stock cast crank turned .020 5.7" 305 rods reconditioned flat top speed pro forged pistons. After ruining my World Sportsman II heads during bowl blending I ended up buying a set of bare Patriot alumimiun heads. This engine is going into a '86 shortbed GMC daily driver.
My local community college offers a high performance engine building class that features all the different machines that are needed to perform these builds at a very afforable price. Your grade depends on how close to your initial goal your completed build turns out. It's great

Like I said, you're very fortunate to have all that equipment available to you..... Not all on here do.... Just don't want to see the inexperienced types think they can put a short block together with a Northern Auto Parts kit, port the heads in the garage with a Sears die grinder and end up with a race engine.... It's not rocket science, the rocket scientists come to sites like this looking for advice!!!!!!

The internet is good for a lot of things, but what it's outstanding at is putting out incomplete or inaccurate information!!!! With that information in hand, newbies can spend all their coin on what others say works good, then when the finished product is a POS become disillusioned and give up Hot Rodding.....

Originally Posted by Rgtrough

Your grade depends on how close to your initial goal your completed build turns out. It's great

500 horse 302 chevy no power adders tunnel ram solid roller A+++++++++++