Thread: quick re-ring

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Thanks Pat I'll give her a try in the morning.

I don't know what happened but after i started and stopped the motor a few times it started to pop back through the carb. I pulled the valve covers and found all 8 exhaust pushrods broken or bent. I am using the same cam and lifters, heads and rocker arms as before. the only thing different is the new valve springs. Is it possible the new springs are binding, everything seemed good when I was turning it over by hand.

did you check for room? piston to valve .retainer to guid . spring stack ,did you check the set up height on springs rocker arms slots .you move the cam? sounds like the valve may have hit .you have to check all this for size cranking it will not tell you nothing

Pat the only thing that has changed is the valve springs. I replaced the stock springs with the 454ho ones from competition products. is it possible that the inner spring would interfere with the factory rotator, the inners on the new spring look a little different.

Originally Posted by clinto

Pat the only thing that has changed is the valve springs. I replaced the stock springs with the 454ho ones from competition products. is it possible that the inner spring would interfere with the factory rotator, the inners on the new spring look a little different.

well i told you to buy the kit and ditch the rotators ? if not? you need to check that stuff for fit did you ? the stock retainers are not set up for them springs there dual two step and stock is not so i can not tell you how your stuff fitted i used five or six sets of them springs they allways work

I bought the kit that had the springs retainer and locks. so do I just remove the rotators and install the springs or do I have to use rotator eliminators.

Originally Posted by clinto

I bought the kit that had the springs retainer and locks. so do I just remove the rotators and install the springs or do I have to use rotator eliminators.

well your going to fill the deep pockets in the head so yes you need the rotator eliminators . what is your spring set up height now . whats your valve stem to the bottom of retainer height now . is your guid s cut down ? how much room do you have from seal to bottom of retainers

Well I went to the shop tonight and popped a couple of valve springs off, here is what I found.
exh valve retainer to guide distance .569" ( this is not good)
int valve retainer to guide distance . 649 (This should be ok I think)
installed height is 1.855 measured with calipers because i don't have any mics at home.
the new valve spring was definately interfering with the factory valve rotator, coincidentaly the exh pushrods were the ones that bent.
So being that my exh valve lift is .527" and there is an umbrella seal in there would this have caused the bent pushrod or would the rubber seal have just shot out (the seal look fine) I'm leaning towards coil bind on the inners but that is just a guess. how much guide to retainer clearance do I need?

for what it is worth I was using stock diameter pushrods (5/16) are these just too weak for these new springs. I looked at cp website and they don't even sell 5/16 pushrods for bbc.

here is picture of the damage, the springs on the left are the 454ho ones from cp and the springs on the right are the originals. you can also see the difference in retainer heights.

you want 060 so 527 +060 so 587 BUT that would be top of the seal . if they sold you the real HO retainers the seal clip s in the bottom of the retainer like a ubbrella seal but very thin alot like the old L88 but with a sheild a give you more room with out cutting the valve guids down . the rotators are not flat have abit of taper so the spring s will not sit flat. if you can buy a HD 5/16 push rod you should be ok but 3/8 push rods and guid plates would be a good move. you can buy a 1to2 cheap snap/ telescoping gauge set there about 35. bucks i set all my springs up with one or just make a go/no go gauge out of a welding rods or coat hanger file to size you want just mic it till its to size

as you see the retainer s for the new spring are longer were the keepers go thru you do not need all the added metal under the keepers/valve locks so if you bo not want to cut the valve guids .i made up a arbor to hold the retainers and trim them on a lathe or lay the face down on a mill and come down on them and spot face them you should get a EZ 040 to 060 off them and you will not give up any strength i done this you would only need to do the EX . one thing you need to do is when you buy the rotators eliminators drill the guid hole up the next size up or spin the rotators elims on a sander the OD and ID from GM have run out and the rotators can jam in the head and you will never get them back out if you need to shim them you want to shim under them or if to thick i have had to face them . so you want not them to hang up in the head

today went better than saturday. A buddy had one of his heads off so he lent me an eliminator for the day to do some measurements. So first off I ripped to work and cut down one of my new retainers on the lathe, my 3 jaw has nice grooves in the chuck that held the retainer perfectly. I cut .075" off the retainer and still had lots left under the keepers. then I mocked up the assembly with a setup spring I borrowed from another buddy and measured my guide to retainer clearance. I now have .630" clearance minus the .527 for the cam to give me .103" room for the seal. Now my umbrella seals were .125 thick so they wouldn't work but I found some thinner seals in my junk drawer that were about .080". I installed one and rolled the engine over again and I can actually see daylight between the seal and retainer. Is this too close for comfort or should I be looking for a thinner seal. I really don't want to pull these heads off again, but if I have to I will remove the heads and mill the guides down.

well how much day can you see .if you hit the seal you just smash them but there move the guids will not so if you have 030 or so they may work for some time i would not think much if you had more like 045 trim the retaner more. or let it fly.. i can tell you we do not run valve seals on the EX side and some head no valve seals at all , but you should try to put some thing on it