Thread: Advice for a 454 newbie

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Ok I'll start off by saying I'm totally new to the hot rod scene and old carbureted engines. I picked up a project 1966 Chevy c10 with a 454 in it. Now while I am redoing the body work etc.. I pulled the engine out as I think the main rear seal is leaking and I wanted to clean and repaint the engine anyway. Anyhow I was looking to possibly add some life to this engine. I was hoping you guys could give me a quick rundown of what I would need to achieve around 400hp. I'll give you whatever info I have now to help you out. And if there is any info you need on something please just let me know and I'll try and find it. Here is what I know so far:
Block #TO305TRW with a casting #3999889
Heads: 336781
Transmission is a TH400
Has longtube headers..but not sure which company.
Also currently has a q-jet carburetor.

That's what I know for now. I honestly have no clue if anything has ever been done to this engine whatsoever. I'm not sure if there is anyway I can identify the valves if I pull the heads off. All of these reasons brought me here for your expertise. So if you guys could maybe give me a list of what would need to be done with part numbers in order to achieve 400hp I would really appreciate it. Such as what cam and valves I might need etc. The truck will only see street cruising and not the strip. But I would like it to have some good get up and go with the classic rumble these big old engines have.
Thanks

Shoot the block number with WD40 and pick at it a little bit with a knife blade. You'll probably find that it is actually a 3999289, '71 to '79 454, 2 or 4 bolt mains.

Once you are disassembled down to the bare block, take the block down to your favorite automotive machine shop and have them magnaflux it for cracks. Then, have them measure the block deck height on all 4 corners and write it on the decks. The reason for this will become clear in subsequent posts. From the factory, these blocks measured about 9.800". Half the crank stroke (2.00") , the connecting rod length (6.135") and the piston compression height (1.645") adds up to 9.780". If the block measured 9.800" and the stack of parts measured 9.780", the piston crown to block deck, with the piston at top dead center, would be 0.020". We would then use a steel shim head gasket (if you plan to use the iron heads). If you want to use aftermarket aluminum heads, then some whittling will be necessary. The block would have to be decked by 0.020", using a 0.040" thick composition gasket to cushion the aluminum heads and prevent 'fretting" the soft aluminum against a harder material. like the cast iron of the block. When you have the piston crown even with the block deck, that is called "zero deck" and when used with the proper head gasket, will put your squish/quench (distance from the piston crown to the underside of the cylinder head with the piston at top dead center). This procedure of squeezing the air/fuel mixture up against the bottom of the head will "JET" the mixture across the combustion chamber, breaking up large clumps of fuel that did not atomize and extracting maximum driveability and power from the fuel. I don't expect you to understand the procedures that I tell you about right away, but in time, it'll come to you.

The suffix code TRW could be either one of these factory builds......

TRW 1974 Truck 454 245 400 LS-4 VIN Z, L, f.d, 20, 30 .......(245 h.p., TH400 auto trans., LS4 build sheet )

TRW 1979 Truck 454 210 400 LF-8 VIN S, fwd, 20.........(210 h.p., TH400 auto trans, LF7 build sheet)


Stick around and we'll build you a nice big block.

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Hey yes sorry I did a typo on the casting number. It is a 3999289. I also noticed date codes on the engine of 1974 as well so I'm assuming it's the second one you listed. I noticed when I decided that casting number why would it say FWD of the engine was for a truck? Or does that not stand for front wheel drive lol

I'm sorry, I don't know what they are. I'll try to find out.

Lol ah! Makes sense.. man don't know how I missed that. Hopefully someone will chime in soon for a good engine combination to help me get to where I need to be. Again I don't need anything crazy. Just want to wake up that engine and make it fun on the street.

Welcome to Club Hot Rod! I hope you’ll stick around and keep us updated on this project. It’s good to see a new guy getting into this stuff.

Currently the truck has 3.73 gears with a disappointing open diff. Lol

The problem with the FWD is that it stands for Front Wheel Drive and I knew that a truck would not come with Front Wheel Drive. The proper contraction for Four Wheel Drive is 4WD, to differentiate it from Front Wheel Drive. I may have had a bit of a brain fart and so will extend my thanks to Denny for helping out.

There are dozens of active fellows here on Club Hot Rod who have the expertise to help you wake up the old 454
and make it fun on the street. Many of us are senior citizens who have built dozens of projects down through the decades of our lives and who enjoy imparting our knowledge of what works and what does not work on a street-driven big block Chevy.

Oftentimes we skip over the basics of engine building if we have insufficient experience at such things. My suggestion to measure the four corners of the block for Block Deck Height is elementary to establishing where you are. You can't use a map to find out which way to go until you know where you are. Without knowing BDH, these are the things you will just be guessing about in your build.....
Piston Compression Height (without knowing this, you will not know whether to cut the block decks or not, and by how much)
Static Compression Ratio (without knowing this, you cannot choose the correct camshaft)
What head gasket to use (without knowing this, you cannot set the squish/quench for max protection from detonation)

In today's world, with today's gasoline quality and using iron heads, I would build a street motor (which will use pump gas) at somewhere between 9.50:1 and 9.75:1 Static Compression Ratio and would use a Squish/Quench figure between 0.035" and 0.045". This combination will offer good power with maximum protection from detonation.

Using aluminum heads, I would build it between 10.25:1 and 10.5:1 SCR to regain some of the power lost through heat rejection (power) by using aluminum instead of cast iron. I might expect to build a 400 to 450 hp motor with iron heads, or a very nice 600 hp motor with Airflow Research 265 aluminum heads. How much money do you want to spend?
http://www.airflowresearch.com/265cc...cylinder-head/

Now, please measure the block and report back.

Thanks, Richard

P.S. Regardless of the direction you go on heads, you should plan on a retro-fit hydraulic roller camshaft. Hot rod big block Chevies do not play well with flat tappet cams.

P.P.S. 3.73 is the perfect street gear, all you need now is a suspension upgrade and a limited slip diff.

I just realized that your heads are 781's. These, along with 049's, are the best of the best iron oval port heads that Chevy ever cast up for a BBC. Using the right recipe, it'll be hard NOT to make 500 hp with them.........

Look around for a shop with a good reputation who can install 2.19" intake and 1.88" exhaust valves in your heads (after measuring the ones that are in there now. Somebody could have already changed 'em out).

Could you give me any direction on how to properly measure them? As well as a proper procedure to measure the block deck height? Thanks

Tech gave you a bunch of right on info... keep on asking questions and never stop.... LEARNING!

Here's some videos on you tube - the query was how to measure cylinder heads
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...linder+head+cc

It's great to see you here and of course we will need pictures now that we've gone this far! LOL

Originally Posted by The_hun

Could you give me any direction on how to properly measure them? As well as a proper procedure to measure the block deck height? Thanks

Here is the proper way to measure block deck height on a disassembled block with no main bearings installed. This is a new tool that is available from Jamison Equipment. It is a special tool for the procedure because of the rounded lower anvil. If you use a standard dial caliper or standard electronic caliper, the lower anvil will be flat and you are trying to measure a rounded surface, so your reading will be off. As it says in the description of the tool, you would add the radius of the main bearing bore (less bearing) to the reading from the tool. I don't expect you to buy a $350 tool, that's why I said take the bare block to an automotive machine shop and have them to measure it. You will come away with 4 measurements, cylinder 1, cylinder 2, cylinder 7 and cylinder 8. This will allow you to see if the block has been machined square. If it is not square, the heads will be lolly-gagged on the block and the manifold will not stand a chance of sealing up all 8 cylinders.
BLOCK DECK HEIGHT MEASURING TOOL *NEW* | Jamison Equipment

The main bearing bore on a Mark IV big block Chevy is 2.7488" to 2.7495", just a hair under 2 3/4", so you would add 1/2 the bore measurement (less bearings), or about 1.3745" to the figure you found with the tool. This will give you the BLOCK DECK HEIGHT from the flat part of the block deck where the heads bolt on, to the CENTERLINE of the main bearing bore. The blueprint measurement from Chevrolet Engineering is 9.800", but you have no idea if the block has been machined or not in the past. At best, it is 46 years old and you have no idea how many hands and how many machine shops it has been through or what has been done to it. That's why you need to know.

Now, if you are hard-headed and want to do everything yourself that is possible to do, go to ebay and purchase a used 12" dial caliper. Do not be swayed by anything that anybody has good to say about an electronic caliper unless you own a machine shop and have to measure in ten thousandths of an inch every day. I have owned digital calipers in the past and every time I reached for one to use it, the batteries were dead. A dial caliper is bulletproof, works every time. While there are shorter dial calipers available to you, none of them will be long enough to measure the BLOCK DECK HEIGHT of any modern V8. A little 4" tool will be so handy that you won't know how you got along without it, if you do anything related to automotive. Here is a copy of ebay from Tuesday night, Jan 7, 2020........
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...icator+12+inch

If you end up measuring the block yourself, I'll give you my phone number so that we can walk through it together.

Don't be concerned about the accuracy of a used dial caliper that looks too cheap to be any good. Any of them that you buy will measure to the nearest 0.001" (one thousandth of an inch) and that's close enough for most automotive work, unless you're building motors for a living or race motors, where you would want to be able to measure to the closest ten thousandth of an inch (0.0001") Purchase one the measures 0.100" (one hundred thousandths) for each revolution of the needle. 10 revolutions equals one inch.

Here are some other photos that will maybe clear it up for you........
http://www.clubhotrod.com/chevy-big-...31.Qw0fjNJJ9j8

Let me clear one thing up for you that everybody gets wrong.
BLOCK DECK HEIGHT: The distance from the block deck where the heads bolt on to the centerline of the main bearing bore.
PISTON DECK HEIGHT: The distance from the piston crown to the block deck where the heads bolt on, with the piston at top dead center. It is rare to find anyone who can tell you the difference between these two parts of a motor. Learn these terms and speak them with confidence. You may pizz off a few people, but in the end, you'll be correct and they will not. So, when someone asks you about "DECK HEIGHT", ask them if they're referring to block deck height or piston deck height.

Oh, and lest someone tries to confuse you with PISTON COMPRESSION HEIGHT, tell them that it is the measurement from the centerline of the piston wrist pin to the top of the piston. To measure this with a dial caliper, you would hang one of the anvils on the uppermost wrist pin bore and the other anvil onto the crown of the piston, then add half the wrist pin bore. On a BBC, this measurement is 1.640" from the factory. This measurement is relative to the piston itself and has nothing to do with any other motor parts, except for calculating "STACK", the measurement of the piston compression height, connecting rod length and the radius of the crank stroke (2.000" for a 454). Adding these three values together will give you the STACK HEIGHT. If you have the stack height and the block deck height, you will know how far down in the bore the piston is at top dead center. This is critical for finding the gasket thickness needed.
http://www.clubhotrod.com/chevy-big-...30.X8Yuoy4-eRI

You will notice that when I write a numerical value in decimals, I put a zero in front of the decimal point. This tells the reader that this number is less than one inch. If you just wrote .001", you could not be sure that the writer of the number meant it to be smaller than one inch or if he just forgot to add the whole number to it. 0.001" or 2.001" means something, .001 is ambiguous. My father was a tool and die maker, so I have been fiddling with this stuff all my life and want to teach you correctly.
.

Wow! That is quite the write up! I appreciate that. Ok I have some homework to do I see. So I will finish up these work I have under the cab of the truck.,and than start disassembly of the engine. Definitely have some great information now to start with. I appreciate it

Originally Posted by The_hun

Wow! That is quite the write up! I appreciate that. Ok I have some homework to do I see. So I will finish up these work I have under the cab of the truck.,and than start disassembly of the engine. Definitely have some great information now to start with. I appreciate it

Welcome to CHR!

I've been building engines for a long time (mostly SBC) and I just did a copy & paste of Tech's last post to file away with all my, "...how to do it right..." articles. That's a whole college course right there! Thanks for posting it Richard and continuing to share from your storehouse of knowledge!

P.S - Happy New Year Richard and best to you and Joanie!!

Glenn

Very nice Glenn, thank you.