Thread: 327 bad rings? has new heads!

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Hi everyone.
OK I need insight from those who've been around longer than me.

327 with only 4000 mi on bottom end. 0.40 pistons, was honed and re ringed by a friend 10 years ago and sat a long time.Professionally built heads with positive oil seals/ 2.02/ 1.6 valves , bronze guides. Brand new Edelbrock 600 cfm manual choke carb on torker intake. No vaccum leaks. idles very smooth after setting the air/fuel idle screws as directed. unilite dist.

Here's the problem. My plugs keep fouling, but not from fuel. I am getting fresh engine oil on the plugs, and no matter how I try to dial the carb, it smokes out the back terribly such that you cant breathe well around the truck. I know what a good running mouse should smell like out the back, and this is not it! Do I have a bad set of rings? I am wondering if because of all the years that engine sat there, if I should get a fresh short block in and re- assemble the new parts I have. ANY SUGGESTIONS AS TO WHAT IS GOING ON?? HELP!!!!!

If you can do a leak down check of the cylinders, it will aid you in identifying what's wrong.

Just a shot in the dark here,,,,,it sound's to me like youv'e got a horrendous vaccum leak, causing your fuel mix to go outa whack.
Unable to tune the carb is a good indication of this.

If it is a bad vaccum leak, could it be from a warped manifold? I suppose to check, I could take a spray bottle and spray some gas by the intake runners and see if rpms increase.

I had the same problem with my 305 and found out that the oil was from the valley because of a warped intake manifold. Used a thicker intake gasket and the problem went away. If it's too badly warped you might have to have the manifold milled.

Originally posted by dutchhotrod
Hi everyone.
OK I need insight from those who've been around longer than me.

327 with only 4000 mi on bottom end. 0.40 pistons, was honed and re ringed by a friend 10 years ago and sat a long time.Professionally built heads with positive oil seals/ 2.02/ 1.6 valves , bronze guides. Brand new Edelbrock 600 cfm manual choke carb on torker intake. No vaccum leaks. idles very smooth after setting the air/fuel idle screws as directed. unilite dist.

Here's the problem. My plugs keep fouling, but not from fuel. I am getting fresh engine oil on the plugs, and no matter how I try to dial the carb, it smokes out the back terribly such that you cant breathe well around the truck. I know what a good running mouse should smell like out the back, and this is not it! Do I have a bad set of rings? I am wondering if because of all the years that engine sat there, if I should get a fresh short block in and re- assemble the new parts I have. ANY SUGGESTIONS AS TO WHAT IS GOING ON?? HELP!!!!!

if you got a vac. leak its not gonna idle smooth, and that would make your plugs run lean not rich. sounds like you're getting oil on the plugs after 10 yrs of sitting, maybe the ring has given up a little. do a wet - dry comp. check. this should give you a reading on the rings. how long does it take the new plugs to foul, and is it all of them or just a few? is the smoke at the tail pipe black or light colored? black being flooding and light colored being oil.

Well, the smoke out back is light in color, not dark. All the plugs reveal the same thing: fresh engine oil on them all. And as I mentioned, the top end is new.
Does any one trully believe that the PCV could be the culprit? I ask because since the new heads, I am running dual breathers and no PCV. The head builder said this is no problem as the circle track cars do this all day long. But I wonder if I ought to try it. Thanks again for anyone's input on this.

Originally posted by dutchhotrod
Well, the smoke out back is light in color, not dark. All the plugs reveal the same thing: fresh engine oil on them all. And as I mentioned, the top end is new.
Does any one trully believe that the PCV could be the culprit? I ask because since the new heads, I am running dual breathers and no PCV. The head builder said this is no problem as the circle track cars do this all day long. But I wonder if I ought to try it. Thanks again for anyone's input on this.

the white smoke is oil smoke, if you,ve got a way for the pressure to get out of the pan then thats all you need for a breather. you can guess all day, its time to check something. check the comp. wet-dry or do a leak down test. its more than likely the rings or the valve seals, and its hard to prove the seals being bad. check the comp. and post the readings.

Originally posted by csf03716
mike, without a positive way of puttin a vacumn on the system and relyin on atmosheric ventin, what are ya gonna do when the ambient pressure is greater than the cranckcase?..the crank case has to be at a negitive pressure to work efficiently!...you should know that!...how many engines came into your shop with clogged pvc's and every gasket leakin oil past because they were pressurized? and not under sufficient vacumn.......

you are 100 % right in what you just said, the only dif. is with the pvc system, its a closed system meaning the pressure is circulated from the pan through the intake back to the pan again and if any of it gets stopped up it cant work, so it blows the oil out of the motor, but you could have pulled the pcv valve out of the valve cover pluged it off at the carb and put in a breather cap and it would have worked fine. it just wouldn't pass the smog test

ps the pressure in the pan is blow-by from the rings.

ok gentlemen. I'm no expert, but I have done a few tests from what you all have been saying. PCV valve? Yes. I ran one from my valve coverto the carb; same thing white stinkin' oil out the back.
I also took a spray bottle with gas and sprayed fuel where each intake runner is; rpm's remained at normal idle. I was really hoping for a warped intake, and have a cheaper way out, but I doubt that is it now, unless I am getting a leak from the lifter galley only?. What is left but bad rings that never seated properly or have degraded during the 10 year period of sitting?
Also, I am using the hi quality fel pro gaskets as well. I can tell that you gents have more experience than I, and I hope to get to the bottom of this soon. Thank you again for your responses.

I forgot to mention that after cleaning the fouled plugs, it takes around a minute or a little less on initial startup to start smokin bad.

dutchhotrod- quote from first post "No vacuum leaks. idles very smooth after setting the air/fuel idle screws as directed". this is his quote, so i don't see why everybody is trying to give him a intake leak. if he had a bad enough intake leak (top or bottom) to be sucking enough oil into the cylinders to foul the plugs out, i assure you it wouldn't be idling good.

ps- dutchhotrod, you need to find something better than gas to be spraying over the motor while checking for vac. leaks.

Denny, too much smoke; way too much. This motor has done this a bit in the past prior to the new heads but not as bad as this.

Originally posted by techinspector1
Mike, it is conceivable to me that even with an internal leak, you could manage the correct mixture via the air/fuel mixture screws and idle speed screw. It wouldn't be just clean air being sucked in like an exterior leak, but a finely homogenized mix of oil/air vapor that would be far more combustible than clean air alone. Just my opinion.

On the other hand, even if he does have an internal leak, I think the main culprits are the rings. I don't think I've ever seen a hone and re-ring operation that worked out great and I suspect that in this case, the new rings never seated, possibly due to an improper honing job and also possibly due to excessive ring end gap due to using standard overbore rings with a too-large bore. Again, just my opinion.

ive ran into this a lot of times on the GM 2.8 alum. intakes, which is bad about sucking the gasket from the bottom side. if you think about it, if the gap is wide enough for 10w40 motor oil to be sucked through it then, no i don't think the idle screws will take up that much slack. most of the time there is no ? about where the oil is coming from because if its being sucked into the cylinders it will smoke so bad you wouldn't drive it, and you wouldn't drive it long enough to foul the plugs out any way. any thing other than checking the comp. wet-dry or a leak down test at this point just dont make no sense to me. why would you pull the intake with out checking the comp?.

Hi Mike.

I am intersted in a compression test. I've never done one before. How do I accomplish this test? Thanks,

Jerry