Thread: 283 question

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Originally Posted by lt1s10

erik, you are talking about building a few motors, to suite your need. they are expensive and don't work well for the masses. GM and ford built some strong motors over the yrs, sold them to the masses, good h.p., reasonable priced, decent gas mileage and up to 6,000 rpm, they stayed together. you cant compare that to a motor you might build in your shop. you don't have to meet no smog rules either. most any good machine shop can build a better motor than GM, but they can't build millions of them, better than GM can.

This is true.

Originally Posted by DennyW

Actually, if you go less than 1.0, you need more flow (bigger carb), or you will get a flow stall.

Roger ,exactly what denny said.

Originally Posted by lt1s10

erik, you are talking about building a few motors, to suite your need. they are expensive and don't work well for the masses. GM and ford built some strong motors over the yrs, sold them to the masses, good h.p., reasonable priced, decent gas mileage and up to 6,000 rpm, they stayed together. you cant compare that to a motor you might build in your shop. you don't have to meet no smog rules either. most any good machine shop can build a better motor than GM, but they can't build millions of them, better than GM can.

And many would twist past 6 grand with stock components and stay together.

Originally Posted by NTFDAY

And many would twist past 6 grand with stock components and stay together.

Yes,a few of them went past 6 grand.But I wonder how many where still making hp?

Back to the new tech vs. old tech. Before the days of flow benches and dyno's more readily available, the only thing we new was build them light and wind them tight. Spent years making my small blocks go 8,000 RPM, and making the ports and runners bigger.... First time I put it on a dyno I was amazed at how poor it was. Same engine today uses flowed heads with CNC porting, roller cam, shifts at 6500 and makes more power and torque then the old tech 8,000 RPM engines did.....
As Erik said, found out I was all done making power at a much lower RPM, the flow bench showed me I was putting way more flow into the cylinder then it could possibly use.
As long as the comparison is between apples and oranges, the comparison is worthless and the argument is hopeless.......

I couldn't agree more with that Dave, but it still doesn't diminish what was done in the past. If that was the case why would anyone even consider building a Flatty? Cubic inches is not necessarily the answer either. I was much impressed by the 4 banger ricers that were dipping in the mid 6's at Topeka last memorial day weekend. I don't like them , but you have to respect their talent. One other thought. When NHRA was running Pro Stock Truck it was my understanding that they were limited to 350ci and they surely weren't running 650cfm carbs.

Originally Posted by NTFDAY

I couldn't agree more with that Dave, but it still doesn't diminish what was done in the past. If that was the case why would anyone even consider building a Flatty? Cubic inches is not necessarily the answer either. I was much impressed by the 4 banger ricers that were dipping in the mid 6's at Topeka last memorial day weekend. I don't like them , but you have to respect their talent. One other thought. When NHRA was running Pro Stock Truck it was my understanding that they were limited to 350ci and they surely weren't running 650cfm carbs.

They did run two 4 barrel carbs.

well considering it was 13:5-1 compression i guarantee you it wouldnt run 10's on a 650 carb!!!!! and no it didnt go to 10 grand. it was built as a back up motor for a junior fueler!!!!!!! but what the hell do i know i only have proof in my garage

Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

well considering it was 13:5-1 compression i guarantee you it wouldnt run 10's on a 650 carb!!!!! and no it didnt go to 10 grand. it was built as a back up motor for a junior fueler!!!!!!! but what the hell do i know i only have proof in my garage

Is a "junior fueler" a "top fuel" car that runs on gas or a "junior dragster" that had a "Briggs" engine in it and now has a sbc????
Is that NHRA, or IHRA??
A"fueler" referes to a "Top Fuel" dragster that runs on nitro methane.
But what the hell do I know??? L.O.L.
And I don't have one sitting in my garage.
I use to have a rail draster with a BBC in it.

Originally Posted by NTFDAY

When NHRA was running Pro Stock Truck it was my understanding that they were limited to 350ci and they surely weren't running 650cfm carbs.

and on the contrary, there are bunches of circle burners restricted to a 500 CFM 2 barrell carb, some on gas some on methanol, that make some very tall horsepower numbers and spin to 7500 RPM twice every lap.... Lots of ways to improve the efficiency (therefore power) of an engine without simply adding cubic CFM of carburators...... Not so much how much flow is going into the engine, but what's done with it once it gets there..... Drag engines are easy to carb, they don't have to idle below 1,000, don't have to accellerate hard off the corners, and don't have to be "clean" at anything less then wide open throttle....... Streetable engines on the other hand seldom see more then an occasional burst at WOT. low and mid range RPM and good power becomes far more important then flowing a ton of air at 8500 RPM briefly as it crosses the 1/4 mile line.

What works on the dragstrip in a light weight, straight line only, always with the pedal on the floor car isn't even close to what works on the street, oval track, or road course..... I've seen a bunch of drag cars improve their performance when they put the Dominator's on the shelf and run a more correctly sized carb for their application......

you dont know what a junior fueler is? i am talking about the little nitro or alkie injected front engine dragsters in the 60's they mainly relied on 301's as their motors, now its 355's and hemis and stuff. since nhra doesnt have that class nor ihra it has been relagated to the goodguys racing assoc.

Originally Posted by erik erikson

Yes,a few of them went past 6 grand.But I wonder how many where still making hp?

the 302 chevy

Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

the 302 chevy

Yes,I will agree with you on this.

Originally Posted by gassersrule_196

well considering it was 13:5-1 compression i guarantee you it wouldnt run 10's on a 650 carb!!!!! and no it didnt go to 10 grand. it was built as a back up motor for a junior fueler!!!!!!! but what the hell do i know i only have proof in my garage

The Junior Fuel Eliminator cars run on injected alcohol and the don't use a carburetor.
Better check the old Good Guys rule book on this one.

Originally Posted by erik erikson

Yes,I will agree with you on this.

we agreed on something wow. and int he 60's when jr, fuel was in the nhra they ran injected nitro cars, now they run injected alkie.