Thread: Starter guru's - I need some advice

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Well, back to my starter problem. I have a 350 sbc from a 70 Camaro or 70 Nova (as per Streets on an ID check) sitting in front of a 350 tranny. I have a screech when I start up. I pulled off the flywheel cover and see what the problem is; however, not sure what to do except install by trial and error different starters. The starter I recently put in is a Delco Remy 323-255 which is suppose to be the starter for that engine. However, the starter gear is only engaging about 2/3 of the flywheel because the nose of the starter is too short. The distance from the center of the front mounting bolt on the starter and the front edge of the flywheel is 2 5/8" - Anybody know about starter numbers or what you might have on your engine that might be the same setup I need?

Thanks for your help.

might I suggest a shim or two? sometimes it seems to be angle as opposed to nose length,just a shot...good luck

When you say the starter screeches when it starts up do you mean when the engine is running or as it cranks? Also when you say that the teeth are engaged 2/3 do you mean all the time?

The teeth on the started are only supposed to engage the flywheel when the engine is cranking and retract when the engine starts. If it's not doing this it's usually one of the following.

1. Incorrect starter. When you go to the parts store just tell them you want a starter for a 70 Nova 350/TH350.

2. A bad starter drive or selinoid.

3. The selinoid is incorrectly wired.

4. Incorrect starter bolts. The correct starter bolts usuallt have a knurled section on the shaft. This allows tem to fit snug in the bolt holes and align the starter correctly.

Thanks for all of the ideas - a few comments to clear up any confusion

Mike P. - It screeches when engaging the starter. The starter teeth are not engaged all of the time. I can tell that the starter gear only goes onto the flywheel about two thirds because of markings on the flywheel. Yes, I do have starter bolts.

Ray - I have shims; however, they are not the solution. The starter is square with the flywheel

Streets - you da' man - problem is the parts house already shipped off the core to the rebuilder and like an idiot I did not take the number off the core. Just asked them to give me a starter for a 350 from 1970. I took the flywheel cover off and it seems to me the starter nose is not long enough. I have two different starters from the parts house - a Delco Remy 323-255 and a 323-367. Both of these have offset bolt holes. Both measure about 2 5/8" from the front hole closest to the block to the gear stop on the end of the starter shaft. Problem is that the distance from the same mounting hole in the block to the back of the flywheel teeth is 2 15/16". Therefore, the throw on the starter gear is about 5/16" short from extending through the flywheel teeth. Actually, the markings on the flywheel suggest it is about 3/16" short. The nose on the starter from the flanged lip that butts against the flywheel cover to the end of the nose is 2". I am off the the NAPA store (different place from where I got the other two starters) to see what they have. It seems that maybe they have two different noses for the same starter number.

At the beginning of this escapade, I am sure that the first 323-367 starter I got from the local parts guy had a longer nose. It fit OK; however, there was a clicking sound. At that time I should have taken off the flywheel cover, as I think I probably had the right starter, but needed shimming. Anyways, I took it off, took it back, and traded out for the 323-255 which didn't work. So, today I went back and got another 323-367; however, the nose on it and the 255 are identical lengths. The casting number as well as the engine number said it was a 2 bbl. 250 hp engine. The parts guy said that there is a 323-244 number for a 2 bbl with a standard in the parts book; however, he said that the only two numbers being sold now are the 255 and the 367. I will let you know what I find out.

The number on the transmission is 10N522897 - is that a 350 transmission and what was it originally installed in - trying to figure if it is a proper match for the 350 from the 70 Camaro. Since everyone at the parts houses tell me there are no other starters to fit the engine, is there a possibility that the flywheel is not the correct one and there should be one more concave that would throw the flywheel forward closer to the starter? There are no shims between the flywheel and the crank, so no slack to get there.

Streets - the pan has a 45 in it - it is a 350. The old starter engaged hard and sounded growly - I think it may not have been the correct one in the first place. The two Delco's that I have tried are the 323-367 and 323-255 - both have the same length nose and the same distance from the mounting bolt to the end of the bendix shaft - they looked identical to me. A guy I talked to this morning told me that in 1970 there was a third starter that was available for 350's and only in that year. He seemed to think it was one with a longer nose; therefore, a longer throw on the bendix.

I am going to see if I can find something on the Internet about available starters. Have you ever searched for that item?

Thanks for the help - I also found a site last night for Camaro starter numbers. It said that the correct starter for my set up is a AC Delco 323-368 - this is one digit off of the starters that all of the parts houses have been trying to feed me. I am wondering if that one has the long nose. Will check tomorrow.

Well, I am a layman to start with...

I have a 78' Chevy C-10 4x2, 454 auto & 400 trany. The
starter spinned the first time in 1996 and I replaced it with a
rebuilt starter; worn out quick and I got another one with
the warrenty... same problem... so I had Grand Auto looked at
it and replaced the flexplate. (168 teeth; external balanced)
(he didn't put it reversed)

For many years now, I keep replacing starters (AC 323-255 or
Bosch SR518X)... shimming, grinding, ... piss me off

Now, I need to drive this pickup since my car is dead. Finally,
I went under and looked at the alignment. Bingo, it's exactly
as you guys described. The bandix throw is too short. About
3/16' short thru the ring gear on the flexplate.

HELP!!! What's the final solution for this thread?? What
starter have you found matched with 323-255 and with
a longer throw?

Can I grind off the stop washer on the starter so the throw
can extend further?

Thanks so much!

Tom

OK, my question is starter related, but of a different creature. What would cause the starters in a grand marquis to go in a matter of months? 87, 5.0 AOD Transmission palidium starters from advanced. The flywheel is properly aligned, and same with the starters. I dont get it!

General Motors made no less than a gazillion different starter combinations over the years.......Each parts store chain does not necessarily carry the same line of reman starters..NAPA fo example does not require their owners to handle any specific brand...They usually have more than one price range...from cheap crap to somewhat better...FORGET about the GOLD PLATINUM LIFE TIME WARRANTY CRAP..!!...There is hardly any difference but the price...Find a counter guy...preferbly a guy that HAS worked on more than one car EVER.!!...Keep looking...Theres one out there somewhere near you...Ask how many of so snd so brand have they exchanged in the last...say.....two days...If its more than one in the last thirty days...then forget it......If ya find one that sounds OK look at the end of the drive..It has to say ."5 ROLLER."....If not give it back.....When ya get home with one ya finally decide on.....check the flywheel/flexplate......there has to be good teeth...V-8s tend to stop in two different places about 180 degress from each other....Roll the crank 360 and look at all the teeth...Every guy has his own theory on the amount of teeth left...There is going to be some wear...You decide....My project engines all get new ring gears/flexplates..not new used..NEW.!!....NEXT...remove the solenoid....Bolt the starter to the block.....This way you can engage the drive into the flywheel...Take a paper clip and straighten it out....Heres your gauge of .32 or what ever the book says...Fit the wire inbetween the teeth....Keep adding shims (the thinnest first)..untill the wire has a smooth fit....While your under there do make sure the drive is engaging a full tooth...The drive housing can not rub on the flywheel either...Use new mounting bolts....I buy mine from the Chevy house...Not offshore crap................................................................................................ ...........FoMoCo starter motors.....Same thing almost....flywheel teeth...5 roller drive....Ford uses Delco in their heavy duty applications....take it from there....

If you ever get a starter that actaully fits, and it goes bad, rebuild it yourself. The primary wear parts in any starter are the brushes. You can get a set for 7 bucks and they shouldn't be too hard to replace if you know how to solder (but most people don't).

Or, classic industries sells genuine GM rebuilt starters for $100, and I am sure the quality there is better than Napa or any other parts house.

I hear that ....When ever I get one that fits good I keep it for good...Delco's are not hard to repair..The beauty of the brushes is that they are held with screws.....The armatures and fields rarely short out..Bushings sometimes...drives once in a while...South of the border rebuilders do more harm than good by using cheap crap and used parts with offshore China made garbage thrown in..