Thread: 55 Chevy balancer installation

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Originally posted by lt1s10
did that add in the cool down time that was involved pelligrini ?

Naa, that was just what the thermal expansion might be at 230 degrees.

I don't know how fast a 10-20 pound mass would dissipate heat. All that would be subject to the ambient temp and a few other factors too.

I could do some experiments with my old greasy balancer and my wife’s pots and meat thermometer, but I think she'd want to try out some impact studies with her new rolling pin and my skull.

When you first mentioned how a balancer would cool down I really was just thinking about my experience with the big aluminum shift handle on my vertical-gate, it seems to never cool off after baking in the sun.

Originally posted by pelligrini
Naa, that was just what the thermal expansion might be at 230 degrees.

I don't know how fast a 10-20 pound mass would dissipate heat. All that would be subject to the ambient temp and a few other factors too.

I could do some experiments with my old greasy balancer and my wife’s pots and meat thermometer, but I think she'd want to try out some impact studies with her new rolling pin and my skull.

When you first mentioned how a balancer would cool down I really was just thinking about my experience with the big aluminum shift handle on my vertical-gate, it seems to never cool off after baking in the sun.

I wouldn't want you to get beat up over this. if i keep talking it looks like i might though. I really cant see the advantage you get compared to the time it would take to do this. a com. mechanic would go Hungary doing it this way.

Originally posted by lt1s10
I wouldn't want you to get beat up over this. if i keep talking it looks like i might though. I really cant see the advantage you get compared to the time it would take to do this. a com. mechanic would go Hungary doing it this way.

Quite true, quite true. In the time spent fooling around with the hot water, a good com. mechanic would probably have the engine buttoned back up, fired and on the road.

Nope Mike. Sorry but I said you guys have been complaining and getting mad meaning you guys have been going back and forth that is all. I got mad that you look down on me like some idiot. But yeah do what you want, I basically lost all respect. That's all I am saying.

Originally posted by FMXhellraiser
Nope Mike. Sorry but I said you guys have been complaining and getting mad meaning you guys have been going back and forth that is all. I got mad that you look down on me like some idiot. But yeah do what you want, I basically lost all respect. That's all I am saying.

if you can read that i called you a adiot out of that then you'll just have to stay mad. i didnt say no such thing. i said FMX untill you have installed a few HB yourself its kinda hard for you to have a opinion about it either way. if thats calling you a idiot then im sorry, but it was never intented for that.

the other guy called me a idiot stright out, but im not suppose to get mad. i really dont understand that way of thinking.

and this is what you said about me and the other guy and that ant talking down to someone 47 yrs older than you ????? Well... Who was the one that started this thread? Whoever it was, SEE WHAT YOU DID!!! Haha just messing. Well anyways I read through everything and I agree with both sides in a way since dljdad has a point and then again I disagree with both sides. Erik, you said to act like a senior citizen (sp)? Well I am sorry but all of you guys are acting like little kids. Go back and read EVERYTHING you guys have been arguing about. All over a frigging HB? If you don't believe dljdad is right then either try it out and if you don't want to then who cares and keep doing it your way. No need to complain and BS about it all. Now I am not taking ANY sides here and not stiring up the fire and it's NOTHING against Erik, Mike, or dljdad at all. Normally the young guys like me, Matt, Drg84 are the ones that should be complaining like little punk kids. Haha. And I know I have no reason to just butt my nosy, know very little butt in here but still.... let's kill this thread shall we?

Well, I'm the guy who stirred up this hornet's nest, I guess, by asking what I thought would be a simple question. Holy crap, I never dreamed it was such a sensitive topic!

As a somewhat senior citizen type gearhead myself, I have installed a few balancers in my time, but this is the first one I have encountered without a balancer bolt and I though maybe there was a definitive method for doing it. Hmmm...apparently not.

So I guess I can either 1) drill and tap the crankshaft, 2) heat the balancer and/or chill the crankshaft, or 3) pound the sucker on cold. I'm not sure which method I will use (they would all probably work), but I'm gonna do something this weekend even if I do it wrong. Probably won't post the results, though, cuz I don't want to start another flame war.

For everybody who tried to help, thanks for taking the time. For everybody who got their knickers in a knot, it's not worth getting overheated about -- just let it go.

It's time to end this thread. Thanks to all who participated.

cla55ic, it's not your fault. Don't worry about it man. We all argue on here once in a while, it just happens. Everyone does it.

Coefficient of linear expansion for steel runs from .0000058 to about .0000083, depending on the type of steel.

Assuming crank snout at 1.6" and the ambient temp at about 68 degrees, boiling the balancer to 212 degrees would create a clearance in the range of .0014 to .0019. Is a thousandth and a half enough to slip the balancer on? Don't know, but I suspect it is.

Also, a 7 or 8 lb balancer won't lose heat very quickly. A minute or so won't make any significant difference.

Would I install balancer this way? Probably not. I'd like to try it, though - just for grins and chuckles.

Bear in mind I don't have a puppy in this tussle. I just wanted to do the math.

A couple of afterthoughts:

- The diamater of a hole in a piece of steel changes at the same rate as a steel bar of the same length. It's counter-intuitive, but that's what happens.

- We're not going to get water to 230 degrees. Water at 230 is called . . . . slightly superheated steam.

Also, a 7 or 8 lb balancer won't lose heat very quickly. A minute or so won't make any significant difference.

i agree with that, but it ant gonna do a lot of expanding in that time either.i dont see a time in your formula, he said 5 to 10 min.

Just stopped by to see what was what. GOOD to see you postin' Denny, That must mean good news.

Okay, I decided to try the warm balancer method last night and here is the result:

First I cleaned the inner surface of the balancer and the exposed portion of the crank snout thoroughly and polished them a little bit with some #0000 steel wool.

I measured the diameter of the balancer hole with a digital inside caliper at 1.236" @ room temperature (about 70 degrees). Instead of using boiling water, I heated the balancer in my powder coating oven @ 250 degrees for 15 minutes.

Immediately upon removing the heated balancer from the oven, I rechecked the hole diameter. The hole now measured 1.243", so the diameter had expanded by .007". Not a lot but maybe enough to make a difference.

As soon as I had measured the hole (less than a minute after removing it from the oven), I placed in on the crank snout, held a block of wood against it, and whacked it firmly about 4 or 5 times with a 3-pound hammer. It went on very easily.

In retrospect, I guess I could have tried installing it cold, then removed it and tried it hot to see if it made a difference, but I didn't. I think maybe the .007" increase in diameter made a difference though -- I used no lubricant except for a little bit of oil on the seal and yet the balancer installed without undue effort.

Thanks again to all who offered advice -- it was a learning experience for me plus the flame war was entertaining as hell!

Originally posted by cla55ic
Okay, I decided to try the warm balancer method last night and here is the result:

First I cleaned the inner surface of the balancer and the exposed portion of the crank snout thoroughly and polished them a little bit with some #0000 steel wool.

I measured the diameter of the balancer hole with a digital inside caliper at 1.236" @ room temperature (about 70 degrees). Instead of using boiling water, I heated the balancer in my powder coating oven @ 250 degrees for 15 minutes.

Immediately upon removing the heated balancer from the oven, I rechecked the hole diameter. The hole now measured 1.243", so the diameter had expanded by .007". Not a lot but maybe enough to make a difference.

As soon as I had measured the hole (less than a minute after removing it from the oven), I placed in on the crank snout, held a block of wood against it, and whacked it firmly about 4 or 5 times with a 3-pound hammer. It went on very easily.

In retrospect, I guess I could have tried installing it cold, then removed it and tried it hot to see if it made a difference, but I didn't. I think maybe the .007" increase in diameter made a difference though -- I used no lubricant except for a little bit of oil on the seal and yet the balancer installed without undue effort.

Thanks again to all who offered advice -- it was a learning experience for me plus the flame war was entertaining as hell!

cla55ic i sure wish you had of done it the way he said he did his. what you did might make a dif. your heat 250 degrees in a oven for 15 min. his was 212 degrees in a pot of water for 5 min. with some cool wown time. no compairson far as im concerned.

Originally posted by lt1s10
cla55ic i sure wish you had of done it the way he said he did his. what you did might make a dif. your heat 250 degrees in a oven for 15 min. his was 212 degrees in a pot of water for 5 min. with some cool wown time. no compairson far as im concerned.

Maybe, but my main objective was to get the balancer on without screwing anything up, not to prove anybody right or wrong. Since I had the oven right there next to the engine, it made more sense to use it than to run in and out of the house with boiling water (my shop is about 75 feet from the house).

I have an old balancer lying around. Maybe if I don't have anything else to do one day I'll try measuring it boiled and unboiled to see what the difference is.

Originally posted by cla55ic
Maybe, but my main objective was to get the balancer on without screwing anything up, not to prove anybody right or wrong. Since I had the oven right there next to the engine, it made more sense to use it than to run in and out of the house with boiling water (my shop is about 75 feet from the house).

I have an old balancer lying around. Maybe if I don't have anything else to do one day I'll try measuring it boiled and unboiled to see what the difference is.

if you had said you had a oven in your first post i would have been the first one to say go for it, but the boiling water for 5 min. thing sucks, mainly for the effort compaired the results.

very entertaining .i have put them on with a 2by4 the old small chevy bal with a hammer. but getting up to 220 or so sounds good to me. we do this on heads to put guides in and works good and .007 is past the pess so it should go on smooth but i like to beat the hell out of the small block with a 2by4 and a hammer what do i used the hammer and 2by4 on now ?