Thread: crate vs rebuilt

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a question to those of you who've actually started from an old block, and did a total rebore/hone and fully balanced each component. basically the whole blueprinting job...

how much would this cost roughly? (for all the jobs that the machinist has to do)
and what other costs/parts are needed?
i assume all the work would cost a bit more in england

i really want to rebuilt my own block (pride n all), but ive seen short blocks selling for 2400 dollars including vortec heads and cam etx (i would probably sell the pistons and cam etc). this seems to be cheaper than what it would cost for a block rebuild with new vortec heads, and at the end of the day its all down to money (cos money buys power!). what you guys think?

I'm running into the same problem - cost of a crate vs. cost of work required to rebuild a used block with new parts.

In my case I'm planning a 383 build early next year and I'm finding it hard to beat the cost of an off the shelf ready to run short or long block. Even a GM Performance Parts HT383 short block with pan, balancer, and flex plate at 3200.00 is hard to beat from scratch. GMPP 350's are MUCH less expensive than that.

What I don't know is how well balanced a GMPP crate engine is.

Other suppliers of crate motors can be even less depending on what you want inside.

http://www.speedomotive.com/ht_383_tow.htm for example offers an HT 383 starting at 2395.00 for a new GM 4bolt short block with high nod crank and forged pistons and rods, all balanced, blueprinted, and ready to use. I can't beat that from scratch around my area.

Shop around as there seems to be a lot of value available from crate builders.

Why would you rebuild a crate motor? Why not start with a 'yard' motor? If you buy a crate engine, you can get it with the pistons and cam you want. I fail to see the logic in this.

Buy an engine from a salvage yard with the block and heads you want and start from the bottom up.

There is an excellant article in latest issue of Rod and Custom magazine that speaks to this very same issue, crate motors vs. rebuild.

The logic of buying a ready to run crate motor vs. rebuilding a "yard" motor is a matter of balancing time and money.

Digging around to find a suitable "yard" motor is time consuming and in many cases a risky aquisition. Then factor in the time to tear down and the cost to re-machine, cost of new parts, and the time or cost to reassemble against getting a ready to run new or rebuilt engine off the shelf.

If we are talking a short block or custom built to spec ready to run crate motors vs the above "Yard" motor rebuild I don't think it is to hard to see the logic in leaning towards new vs old at similar cost - but the final cost does depend upon what you are trying to do.

If you are looking for a 4 bolt bottom end with new crank, rods, pistons, etc., a new crate short block is hard to beat. If all you are going to do is freshen up stock parts then a yard motor may be the way to go. Start talking a stroker and the machining cost of a stock yard block for clearancing appear to exceed the cost of a ready to use crate motor.

And then rebuild and port Yard heads vs. a pair of new ready to run Vortec's for 500.00?

Maybe if you can do the machining work yourself and have the time - but for me starting with a new short block and then bolting on new parts from there is working out to be the most cost effective.

yea it is all what your trying to do. right now on my project i had to come to a decision myself. i broke a connecting rod in my engine,it gored the block and ruined the whole engine. i looked at a new long block, its 1600, i can get it for 1400, through my uncle , but this engine is for a 74 van. so im aiming for 350hp. the long block im getting comes with 290hp at 5100rpm. and it comes with a cam, all new! im gonna swap it out but just add a few bolts ons and i have what i want for my engine. if i started from scratch with a yard engine, all the machine work and parts and all that.... it would cost me way more than the 1800 dollars that im putting in to it, so in the end its what you afford and what you want.

Originally posted by mad hooker
yea it is all what your trying to do. right now on my project i had to come to a decision myself. i broke a connecting rod in my engine,it gored the block and ruined the whole engine. i looked at a new long block, its 1600, i can get it for 1400, through my uncle , but this engine is for a 74 van. so im aiming for 350hp. the long block im getting comes with 290hp at 5100rpm. and it comes with a cam, all new! im gonna swap it out but just add a few bolts ons and i have what i want for my engine. if i started from scratch with a yard engine, all the machine work and parts and all that.... it would cost me way more than the 1800 dollars that im putting in to it, so in the end its what you afford and what you want.

What you are failing to account for is in changing the pistons and cam. The engine would have been balanced for the pistons that came with the engine. Replacing the pistons would require rebalancing the engine. This isn't saving money.

Get the ZZ4 engine, pay the extra and get the complete assembly for $3500 or so. It's a 350 HP engine, you won't have to buy an intake, cam, etc. And you won't have to pay for the balancing.

yea your right but i dont want a turn key or a fully assembled engine, id rather do it myself that way i can choose exackly what i want in the engine. and i dont wanna spend that much on a complete, its out of my budget. get my drift?
well i could start on a block and do it up but right now its too much for me and the long block i had in mind seems to be a good deal for the buck, its all in the decision making

or i could go with a new short block, or even better i could have them put in the pistons and cam that i want then continue on with the build.

swiftser, now you got me thinkin, besides buying a complete engine, what do you think would be the best bet . what i want is a long block, and i want to put in a like a comp 268 cam,headers and a new intake, i already have the cam. i can spend around 2000 for the long block, i need something that can handle more power, around 350 hp with having to pay for balancing and swapping pistons, just putting in a cam and the other parts.

THE GREAT THING ABOUT A CUSTOM BUILT ENGINE IS YOU CAN PUT EXACTLY THE PARTS YOU WANT IN IT.YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE FROM DIFFERENT BRAND NAMES.YOU CAN WORK WITH THE ENGINE BUILDER TO COME UP WITH THE RIGHT COMBO.ALSO REMEMBER EVERY PERSONS APPLICATION IS NOT THE SAME.YOU REALLY DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.A CUSTOM BUILT ENGINE IS HELD TO MORE EXACTING TOLERANCE'S AND NOT A (COOKIE CUTTER )ENGINE.ANOTHER THING IS A GOOD ENGINE BUILDER ACTS AS A MACHINIST,AN ENGINEER AND A PARTS MAN AND A SALESMAN.

Originally posted by mad hooker
swiftser, now you got me thinkin, besides buying a complete engine, what do you think would be the best bet . what i want is a long block, and i want to put in a like a comp 268 cam,headers and a new intake, i already have the cam. i can spend around 2000 for the long block, i need something that can handle more power, around 350 hp with having to pay for balancing and swapping pistons, just putting in a cam and the other parts.

I gave you my thought. Sell your cam and use that to fund a ZZ4. It already comes with the intake, distributor, water pump and vibration dampner. This engine also has aluminum heads vs. the cast iron heads on the 290 HP engine. It has 10 to 1 pistons, yada, yada, yada.

I look at this stuff from a financial perspective, not a pride factor. I don't have a problem building an engine from scratch, but a good $500-$1000 donor is a better starting point than a $2400 long block. And a $3500-$4000 engine is more cost effective than what you are proposing above.

My point was that I don't think you can take a $500-1000.00 run of the mill "yard donor" and remachine/rebuild it into a good 350hp for much less than the cost of a new crate motor - especially if you can't do most of the work yourself - be it short ,long, or complete. Even better if you have your original motor to get all the ancillary parts from.

Either get an off the shelf short block and add the cam, new heads, and intake system you want, or, it looks to me like it is hard to beet that GMPP 350 HO with 330HP@5000, 380ftlbs@3800, for $2399.00 complete with pan, covers, vortec heads, and DIP STICK! - just add induction of your choice, exhaust, and the accessories from you current motor.

To: mad hooker, did I understand correctly that you are repowering a 1974 van? If so I'd put less emphasis on HP and go for good low end torque.

Originally posted by MainCap
My point was that I don't think you can take a $500-1000.00 run of the mill "yard donor" and remachine/rebuild it into a good 350hp for much less than the cost of a new crate motor - especially if you can't do most of the work yourself - be it short ,long, or complete. Even better if you have your original motor to get all the ancillary parts from.

Either get an off the shelf short block and add the cam, new heads, and intake system you want, or, it looks to me like it is hard to beet that GMPP 350 HO with 330HP@5000, 380ftlbs@3800, for $2399.00 complete with pan, covers, vortec heads, and DIP STICK! - just add induction of your choice, exhaust, and the accessories from you current motor.

To: mad hooker, did I understand correctly that you are repowering a 1974 van? If so I'd put less emphasis on HP and go for good low end torque.

ONE OF THE WROST THINGS ABOUT BUYING A (CRATE ENGINE) IS YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THEY HAVE SAT THERE.

I always build my own motors. I'm a hot rodder, by golly.