Thread: LSwhat? Help me please?

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Ok, I'm building my very first LS1 at work for a man that drag races with nitrous. He blew the tranny ears off of the block when the flywheel came apart so I'm building a new one for him. What i need to know is what the hell do i torque everything to? (Rods/mains) What about the little cross bolts in the side of the block? Is there a difference in the torque setting from the inner main bolt and the outer main bolt? I'm so lost here it's not even funny because this is the first LS1 rebuild that my shop has seen so far. We do a ton of top end LS stuff in the new GTO's and stuff but this is the first time someone has blown theirs up and brought it to us so any help would be appreciated...

spec book, does your shop have an online manual refrence like Snap on's Shopkey or Autozone's Alldata? you will find torque specs on 1 of those sites if you have it. there are to many specs to list on a thread and be correct about it. likely some of the bolts are torque to yeild bolts, so you will need to use an angle meter to torque them properly

well i checked alldata before i even made this post and i can't find anything on there about how much torque i need to put on the mains. Grrr! This is the time when u wish u had one of them "How to" books about LS1's

Please don't take this personal, but seeing a post like this from a professional shop that is charging someone to rebuild their engine is pretty darn scary. It also tells me that you are likely not getting the motor put together right as there are some unique assembly processes. Comments like 'little crossbolts' are also pretty scary. Can I suggest that you take some of the money you are charging this guy and go and get a proper book? Then read it before you go any further. You will be doing yourself, your shop and your customer a favor if you follow the manual instead of trying to wing it by the seat of your pants.

My $.02 for what it's worth

Pat

Well, there's a first time for everything and this just happens to be my first time for an LS1 rebuild. Also, those "little cross bolts" are called (quote off of Alldata) "Side bolts". So get off it. Cross bolt is just as good because it still lets you know where they go. Alldata gave me the information that I needed as to torque specs. You actually have to use an angle meter to torque them to spec.

The inners take 80degrees off of 15 ft/lbs.
The outers take 53 degrees off of 15 ft/lbs.
And those CROSS bolts take 18ft/lbs.

Give me a break Pat, this is only my 14th engine, I'm 18 years old and trying to learn this stuff. I have a book on the LS1 at home, however, I'm at work so I thought I could ask a question to this forum. But I guess not. You just assume that I'm "flying by the seat of my pants"

Originally Posted by Hopper111

Well, there's a first time for everything and this just happens to be my first time for an LS1 rebuild. Also, those "little cross bolts" are called (quote off of Alldata) "Side bolts". So get off it. Cross bolt is just as good because it still lets you know where they go. Alldata gave me the information that I needed as to torque specs. You actually have to use an angle meter to torque them to spec.

The inners take 80degrees off of 15 ft/lbs.
The outers take 53 degrees off of 15 ft/lbs.
And those CROSS bolts take 18ft/lbs.

Give me a break Pat, this is only my 14th engine, I'm 18 years old and trying to learn this stuff. I have a book on the LS1 at home, however, I'm at work so I thought I could ask a question to this forum. But I guess not. You just assume that I'm "flying by the seat of my pants"

so the bolts are as I suspected, TTY's. I don't think pat's trying to flame you but when you figure you can only get a 100%, if you get 99%, your doing the engine for free on your wallet, 1 bolt torqued improperly is all it takes. those TTY sequences are what you need, but you do need to replace any and all TTY fasterners that were removed, they are streached to yeild from the factory and that's why there torqued with an angle meter, puts them at an accurate depth, but because there at Yeild, reusing them will put them under too light of a torque or snap them, if it's a high performance application ( I'd assume so ) get a set of ARP's

well I can't do the stuff that i would normally do for precaution like buy a set of ARP's for this motor. I'm just the assembler. The man brings my boss parts that he wants to use, my boss brings them to me and says "Put this together" So I don't have the option for ARP bolts. I don't even get to use new rings. Not only that, but the man has refused to buy new bearings so we are using factory bearings, factory cam/lifters/pushrods/springs/valves/pistons/rods/crank/mains Basically I'm taking a new block and putting nitrous used factory parts in it BECAUSE thats what the customer wants. At least the "squeeks when walks" man (that means cheapskate) is gonna "splurge" for a gasket kit instead of saying "use the old ones" or "RTV please" Like I said, I'm just the assembler.

In essence, this is a factory motor with way too much nitrous on it.

I believe if I owned the shop I'd have to walk away form this one.

Originally Posted by Hopper111

well I can't do the stuff that i would normally do for precaution like buy a set of ARP's for this motor. I'm just the assembler. The man brings my boss parts that he wants to use, my boss brings them to me and says "Put this together" So I don't have the option for ARP bolts. I don't even get to use new rings. Not only that, but the man has refused to buy new bearings so we are using factory bearings, factory cam/lifters/pushrods/springs/valves/pistons/rods/crank/mains Basically I'm taking a new block and putting nitrous used factory parts in it BECAUSE thats what the customer wants. At least the "squeeks when walks" man (that means cheapskate) is gonna "splurge" for a gasket kit instead of saying "use the old ones" or "RTV please" Like I said, I'm just the assembler.

In essence, this is a factory motor with way too much nitrous on it.

He is probably (cheap guy) going to break it again first couple times out, with the used parts being installed back in there,and blame you guys. I agree with NTFDAY, I would of told him to go somewhere else.

Thats what i thought about it too. I almost refused to build this motor for those exact reasons. However, I like my job and I've learned a lot and had a lot of success in my learning process. I've built 13 engines so far and they've all worked perfectly. 1 of them is in a '96 camaro with a 9lbs supercharger on it, one is in a circle track car that is currently in 6th place in points, 1 is in my bosses boat, and my first ever big block is in a rail dragster that has done pretty well.

i really reccomend stepping away from this motor and biting it now before the customer trys screwing you guys.... i've been working in shops since i was 16 and i've seen quite a few lawsuits from customers that pull cheap BS like this.... ussually ends up in the owner losing the shop and all the employees loosing their jobs.... the LS1 is a very tight spec motor, and its really easy to mess one up..... the engine shouldn't even built if every thing is either new or remachined for proper spec..... the rings especially..... they are supposed to hold 100% compression even when cold

Hopper,

Like I said, don't take it personal. And with the additional info you have now provided, I agree with the others that this could end up being a lose-lose for both your shop and your customer. It sounds like you have have a good track record so far, it would be a shame for you to lose it now. There are a lot of years of experience on this thread offering you the benefit of their experience and knowledge. I realize you gotta do what your boss says, does he know all the special requirements of these motors likes the one time use TTY bolts? Are you using new bolts? Most bosses appreciate an employee who will tell them if they have made a decision that will cause them trouble later. I know I do.

I realize everyone has to learn, but it's better to learn it the right way.

Pat

Well, I've mentioned to him that I don't like a few aspects of this motor but I didn't outright tell him that this is wrong and some of the stuff needs to be new. The last time i told him that i got told "the customer knows what is there, this is what he wants so build it"

I don't think that it will come back on the shop because i found out last night that the man i'm assembling this for is a friend of the boss...which in my mind still doesn't make it okay but I want to keep this job.

And also as to denny's post, there isn't a ticket on this one because its being done for the bosses friend. So, technically "it isn't happening" or "hush-hush"

Originally Posted by DennyW

Make sure your boss puts: As Per Customer Instructions on Build, No Warranty. And have him sign the ticket.

yup specially if he is requesting reusing the one time use TTY fasterners, they WILL fail if reused.

well then just do what the boss says, and take your time and do it as carefully as possible with the parts you've been given.... just remeber assemblers/installers are the first ones to go in the shop when theres a problem