Thread: I'm kinda lost here...

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So I'm getting ready to start ordering parts for my 377 build up (400 with destroke) and I was looking for information on the motor so that I could get an idea of my limitations, power ranges, ect. My problem here is that I can't find any good information on the 377...I know it's a bit of an irregular build and one that not many people try, but I dare to be different so I'm gonna try. If i don't like it, I'll deal with it later. I've even tried to find books like David Vizard's "How-to" books but I've had zero luck. If anyone has a publication, website, or anything like that that could shed some light on the 377 do's, don'ts, cans, can'ts, ect I'd very much appreciate it.

I don't really HAVE to build the 377 but I want to try something different from the "norm." Everyone builds the 406 or the larger stroked 400. I don't want to build a 350 because everyone builds the 355 or the 383. It doesn't really encourage me to pull up to the track or the local hang out, pop the hood and look around only to see that everyone else has the same setup as I do. I also don't know of ANYONE in my area that has a 377 powered El Camino. I rarely even see an El Camino at that...

I'd like to try kind of a hot 377 with a powerband of about 3500-7500, paired with my TH350, a 3.73 posi rear, a good stall converter, and some MSD ignition upgrades (MSD distributor, MSD-6AL, ect)

I'm just trying to do some homework because I'm not really wild about taking a shot in the dark that could cost me thousands if I miss something because I didn't know about it.

Also, to the guys that HAVE built and ran a 377 at some point in their life, how did it do? satisfied? Would you have done it different? How hard can you actually turn a 377?

You can turn it just as hard as a 350.

"......It doesn't really encourage me to pull up to the track or the local hang out, pop the hood and look around only to see that everyone else has the same setup as I do......."

Yup you pull up to where-ever pop your hood and you have.......Drum roll please.......another SB Chevy

The SBC has been done to death with tons of both factory and aftermarket R&D. There are literally hundreds of proven combinations out there for this motor to make it do almost anything you want it to.

Just a sugestion from an old fart, figure out what you want the El Camino to actually DO then start looking at displacement, bore stroke combinations, power adders etc to make it do it. Their called proven combinations for a reason.

Well I want to drag race this car. I know, el camino's aren't the best thing to drag race but I like it a lot. I'm looking for about a mid to low 7 second 1/8th mile street legal bracket car.

theres an el camino here that runs a 8.54 1/4 using a 454.... the trick is really low wheelie bars and wide as hell drag slicks

.....Hopper, Why don't you go to campbellenterprises.com
.... Then go to the part that says 'compression calculator' on this same page they have a calculator where you put in your car's wieght & the 1/4 mile time that you want to turn. Then it tells you how much HP you need. Someone one this board will know the conversion from 1/4 mile to 1/8 mile. I don't know it.... Of course this is just a rough estimate, as there are many variables that aren't taken into consideration. But it'll give you somewhere to start. Then figure 1.2 {or so} HP per Cubic Inch for a street motor, normally aspired. Once you know how much HP you need to turn a certain 1/8 mile time then you can go from there..... Did you know you can have a 377 with a stock 350 block {4" bore} and a 400 crank {3.75'}??? I say this cuz 400 blocks are getting harder to find & they run hotter...... But Performance Automotive Warehouse {PAW} in Chatsworth {used to have other locations} @ 818-678-3000 has parts for this. On page 63 of the catalog that I have is a kit for $1900 with a 400 block & a 350 chrank {along with the rods, pistons, rings, bearings, cam, timing chain set, etc, & it's balanced}. This one is bored .060 over which is 383 cu. in's but I got a kit from them once and they do substitutions, no problem..... Plus they have a service that resleaves blocks for cheap, but ONLY if you buy a kit from them {if you have to to get your .030 over 377}. Also they have seperate parts for what your looking to do..... Do you already have a good 400 block??? If so, then great. If not, then when you do find one you'll have to have it checked out, which costs money. If it'
s a good block great, but if not then you've got to go find another one & have it checked {did I mention more money???}. If your block gets ruined a couple of years down the road & you want to use the same engine internals that your using now? And 400 blocks are even harder to find then? Well then it's $1800 bucks on up for a 4.155 bore Dart, Motown or GM block.... Also if you go with a .030 400 & you want to rebuild it down the road & go .060 over there is a terrible selection of pistons for a .060 over 400 {a 413}. How do I know a lot of this??? Because I have a 400 that's bored .060 {a 413} sitting out in my garage. The block is ruined but the internals are good. My options are; 1} I can purchase an $1850 Dart block. 2} I can comb through junk yards looking for a block & then pay money to have it checked {if I can find one} & pray that it's a good one {they are between 25 & 35 years old}. 3) I found a couple on Ebay a) $750 & it already has a crank, rods & pistons. I already have those parts. I just need a block b) GREAT I found another one, it's only $300 {ut oh, the shipping to my house is $360!!!. That's $660!!.. {plus is it REALLY a good block???} What am I going to do if it's not??? Sent it back for another $360??? OR # 4} I can have a machine shop resleeve my old 400 block for $1200 bucks.... Well I can purchase a BRAND NEW 350 from the GM Dealer for $600 bucks!!! But NO, I wanted to be different.... Yeah, I just had to have a .060 400. Wouldn't listen to anyone....
Good Luck Hope this helps ya..... bill

Oh, if ya want a buy a 400 block that needs to be resleeved, let me know......

.....hummm, you also might want to rethink the power band of 3500 to 7500. This is going to require a 4000 or so stall converter, a HUGE cam, & with it a compression ratio that is NO way going to run on pump gas {what is race gas now, $5 or $6 bucks a gallon???}. And to get into that power range it's gona be 4.88's or 5.12's not 3.73's. And FORGET about cast parts, it's TOP dollar forged parts all the way at 7500 RPM..... Please don't get me wrong as I'm not trying to jump in here and be all negitive on your ideas. But please don't order any parts until you ask a lot more questions..... Want to be different??? Put a 1970 Cadillac 500 cu. in motor in it! Stock it's 550 Ft. Lbs of Torque! Which is only 16 Ft. Lb's less than a 502/502 Big Block Chevy Crate Motor.... Torque is what makes a fast street car..... bill

Hey, another 500 Cad fan! Smaller and lighter than a BBC, and torque like a tractor. Gotta love 'em! One of the magazines did a 500-'82 Camino years back, and took it to the strip. They had one hell of a time getting anyone to pull a good ET, they all just wooded it and giggled as they smoked 'em the full quarter. Speeds like 85 mph in a cloud of rubber smoke. I don't think they ever did get it to hook up.

Well, I understand where you are coming from about the 400. I already have a 400 that I paid $200 for. It is standard bore and will clean up at .020 which is good. Eventually I want to buy a dart block anyways when I have a little better financing. This particular 400 is just for me to have some fun for a little while until I either A) Move up to a big block or B) Buy a 400 Dart block. I'm not even going to spend a whole crap load of money on this motor. The way I break it down is kinda like this:

Block & Machine work: $200 plus $225 for deck/bore/dip/freeze plugs/cam bearings.

Pistons: Hypereutetic $200ish, I might be able to get a forged set from my machinist for around $250 so that's something to think about.

Crank: Cast Steel SCAT $203.00, I've asked about this and these cast steel cranks are supposed to be really good.

Rods: 5140 Steel "I" Beam with arp bolts for $180.00

Add that all up and I've got a pretty good shortblock complete for $1008 dollars give or take a few bucks. (if these prices look abnormally low, it's because I buy all my engine parts from a wholesale place out of Kansas City called Motorville/Star Performance)

I'm going to use my heads off the 350 that I had in the car (441 Castings), I'll buy a new intake manifold, I really like the Professional Products Crosswind Series Manifold. It's pretty cheap and it has some pretty good reviews on it.

As for the carburator, I'll be buying a Demon from motorville but I still need to figure out the CFM that I need and the type of carb that I need.

That's kind of the idea I had in mind, I'm not sure how realistic my goals are of a mid 7 1/8 miles are but I'm trying to break into the drag racing scene and the only way to do that is to try it out.

Well, I understand where you are coming from about the 400. I already have a 400 that I paid $200 for. It is standard bore and will clean up at .020 which is good. Eventually I want to buy a dart block anyways when I have a little better financing. This particular 400 is just for me to have some fun for a little while until I either A) Move up to a big block or B) Buy a 400 Dart block. I'm not even going to spend a whole crap load of money on this motor. The way I break it down is kinda like this:

Block & Machine work: $200 plus $225 for deck/bore/dip/freeze plugs/cam bearings.

Pistons: Hypereutetic $200ish, I might be able to get a forged set from my machinist for around $250 so that's something to think about.

Crank: Cast Steel SCAT $203.00, I've asked about this and these cast steel cranks are supposed to be really good.

Rods: 5140 Steel "I" Beam with arp bolts for $180.00

Add that all up and I've got a pretty good shortblock complete for $1008 dollars give or take a few bucks. (if these prices look abnormally low, it's because I buy all my engine parts from a wholesale place out of Kansas City called Motorville/Star Performance)

I'm going to use my heads off the 350 that I had in the car (441 Castings), I'll buy a new intake manifold, I really like the Professional Products Crosswind Series Manifold. It's pretty cheap and it has some pretty good reviews on it.

As for the carburator, I'll be buying a Demon from motorville but I still need to figure out the CFM that I need and the type of carb that I need.

That's kind of the idea I had in mind, I'm not sure how realistic my goals are of a mid 7 1/8 miles are but I'm trying to break into the drag racing scene and the only way to do that is to try it out.

Also, I was punching some numbers and came up with, and VE2000 agrees with me, that it will take about 545 HP at the flywheel to put me into the 7.5 second 1/8th mile which is a 11.7 1/4 mile

I looked into this combo a while back and if I remember right,it was more of a circle track motor.It would work ,but where the motor is comfortable making power was high.This was because of the stroke (destroke).Check into this before you invest.I wanted to put into my truck and this combo was not best to get it off the line.

"Stroke" that mother up to a 421
Have you checked WWW.SPEEDOMOTIVE.COM,they have some info on strokers.I have a few other links I'll post later for parts and info.

The 400 would be nasty with a 4 inch stroke in it huh? Hmmm, I hadn't thought about going the other way with the 400 and ADDING displacement. That's definitely something to think about. If i wanted to get stupid with this motor I could do forged 4 inch stroke crank, forged flat tops, forged rods, a big nasty flat tappet camshaft... Hmmmm! We'll see, I have a little while to think about it because I'm going to spend the summer saving my money and slowly getting the car ready for a new motor. This way once I've saved all summer long I'll have a good financial starting point. I apologize if anyone feels that I've wasted their time talking about this, but sometimes you need to talk about something to understand why it is a good idea or a bad idea. Thanks

I wouldn't dismiss Bills 500 Caddy suggestion out of hand. I seem to recall reading articles some years ago about them pushing 68/9 Chevells into 12 Second 1/4 mile times in stock form.

They don't like/need a lot of gear with 500 foot pound of torque they don't need it. You could potentially have a motor with very good street manners, able to cruse comfortably at hiway speeds and still meat your 1/8 time wishes.

While I appreciate you idea and wouldn't mind trying a caddie 500 some day, I would really like to stick with small block chevy for right now. When i get a little more oriented on the tree and with the racing itself, I will trade out for a big block (something in the neighborhood of a 496 or so) I want to do it this way because I've never *drag raced* before. I've done some quiet highway street racing though. I think starting with a small block and getting the feel for drag racing I will be much more comfortable when I decide to move up to a big block. Maybe some day I'll even get into a tube chassis car.

If you want to do something different, go for the cubic inches and build a 415 cubic inch monster out of your block. Check this out:

www.speedomotive.com/500_hp_maxi_mouse.htm

377's are better for road racing or circle track racing that 383's which are better for drag racing (According to Chevy High Performance magazine article a couple of years ago). An extra 38 cubic inches more than a 377 is like a major power jump. And the amount of torque an engine like this can make is considerable and you won't have to run it over 6000 rpm to do so.