Thread: 350 stalls when put in gear

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Anyone want a 54 Chevy?

Like I said Denny, we don't have a tach on it. The battery would not have anything to do with the stall upon putting the car in gear. The battery is fully charged now and it is still dying when you put it in gear no matter the idle speed. I appreciate your troubleshooting help.

JoAnne

It dies in both reverse as well as drive. All the cables are secured to the wheel well & firewall and we made sure there were no cables or wires near the manifolds. Steve just tried a different carb and as soon as it warms up, the stall happens. Unless the idle is set high, it dies.
Steve is ready to re-time the cam in hopes that maybe it is off a little. Like I said before this 54 is up for sale soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JoAnne

Denny is right, if it ran well before the alternator change it should run ok now. Here is the problem now........you have been in there fiddling around with carb, distributor, and lots more. It's really hard to tell if you have a problem or have created another problem by changing adjustments on things.

I have reread your posts and tried to find a place where the problem started, and it looks like:

1) The car was running well at the cruise.

2) You turned on the neons.

3) There was no charge coming out of the alternator.

4) You drove home in a discharged state

5) When you pulled into the driveway it died and wouldn't restart on it's own

6) You jumped it and it started> (how did it run at that point???)

7) You changed alternators and it now charges, but stalls when going into gear.

8) You have no tach, so you are guessing about idle rpms. (How does it SEEM to be idling, though)

9) You have been in there turning screws and changing things.

Is this scenario pretty accurate?



Don

Yes that is pretty much it.One of the reasons for the cam adjustment is because when it is running, there is a slight tapping sound almost like a diesel engine. Two old school mechanics we talked to said that might be the cam if all the valves were adjusted correctly. Honest guys, the stall is not electrical, it is engine or tranny related. The fact that the alternator took a dump, was just another rung in the ladder.
JoAnne

Ok, then pull both valve covers and see what is going on in there. That noise could be a pushrod that has bent or some other problem. For the price of two gaskets you might find your problem.

Unless you are running a solid lifter cam, there should be no valvetrain, or other noises as you are describing. I think you are getting closer to your problem.

What do you think, Denny??


Don

We did pull the valve covers awhile ago and checked all that. It has new pushrods and the only thing we did not replace was the springs. They were fine. One of our friends knew a guy who builds race engines, an older man that has been a mechanic for years, he came over to adjust the valves thinking that is where the "dieseling" or tapping sound was coming from but it turned out the valves were adjusted perfectly. The only thing left regarding the tapping noise is the cam or the timing chain maybe rattling against the cover. Either way that is what Steve is trying to rule out now. He still thinks that the cam may be off a tooth or two therefor not allowing the engine to stay running under a load.
The car has done this "dieseling" thing since the beginning and the initial tranny we installed, a 700R4, was stalling too so we thought OK it might be the torque converter locking up. Rather than fool around with that, we pulled the engine AGAIN, and put a 350 on it and after getting the engine back in, the stall quit for 2 drives and shifted beautifully. Now it is back so the tranny we are sure, is NOT the problem. The minute it gets hot, or it is under a load, it dies. Not an electrical stall, almost a fuel stall.
JoAnne

Ok, time to go back to basics. What you have to do is verify that everything is as it should be. Start with the relationship of the cam to the crank. Pull it up to top dead center on the timing mark on the balancer and the dist pointing to # 1 and see if both valves on # 1 are closed, and that the piston is truly at TDC.

The thing that bothers me the most is that noise you describe. Chevy has built a zillion 350's and the majority of them idle and go into gear without stalling, so your problem isn't the engine line, it is just your particular engine.

If all of this fails, stop beating yourself up. Take the car to a good local shop and have them diagnose the problem. It could be something simple or not, but they can find these things a lot faster than you or I because they do it all day long.

Just a suggestion, and your blood pressure will drop significantly.


Don


PS: My Son and I spent 3 weeks of pouring over books at the library, trying to get his Mustang fuel injection to fire properly after an engine swap. Finally took it to a local garage, it was plugged injectors from sitting so long. Cost me $ 100.00 and the car ran like a clock after.

Similar thing happened on my 49 chevy pickup. Turned out the v-8 exhaust was a lot closer to the fuel line. Rerouted the line-problem solved. Hope this helps. Craig

If it only happens after it gets hot, and if you have a mechanical fuel pump, and if you hear a tapping noise, it has to be a faulty fuel pump. The spring in it is shot. Check for fuel pressure after it gets hot. If it doesn't have 6-7 psi, buy a new pump, install it, and call me in the morning.

It has a brand new electric Holley Blue and works fine. Steve pulled the timing cover off and said the bottom gear has different marks and isn't sure how to align them. The top gear has the round indentation but the bottom gear does not have a similar mark. Now we are trying to find someone that knows how to align them.
I agree with you guys about making more problems than we began with but what the heck do I know. I am resigned to the fact that the 54 is grounded till next year, maybe by then the engine fairy will drop down and drop in a new crate motor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
One thing after another.
JoAnne

Originally Posted by LowJo

The top gear has the round indentation but the bottom gear does not have a similar mark. Now we are trying to find someone that knows how to align them.

K, the cam gear mark should be facing down and the crank gear should be facing straight up. In other words, they should be facing towards each other. The crank gear will probably have three different marks on three different teeth. One mark is for neutral cam timing, another is for 4 degrees advance cam timing and another is for 4 degrees retarded cam timing. This timing has nothing to do with ignition timing, but it only relates to the valves opening in relationship with the pistons position. Some gears have an "A" on a tooth for advance, a "R" on a tooth for retarded, and a "O" for straight up timing. If any of the teeth with the marks line up with the cam gear mark, it should run fine. Go onto something else. I would still check fuel pressure even tho it is a new pump. Maybe at idle if the alternator isn't charging fully, the pump stalls.

JoAnne, I have been lurking on this thread, unable to uncover your problem. I have given it some thought and will offer this paper to you which I wrote some time back. It wouldn't have to be much of a leak to shut the motor down in my opinion. I've experienced a warped manifold before. http://www.streetmachinesoftablerock...opic.php?t=350

Richard, without reading the paper, I assume you're speaking of a vacuum leak. Joanne, listen to this man...As I read thru your post, I would almost bet my life that there is a vacuum leak somewhere. This is exactly what they do, and it's also why they're so hard to find. It could be leaking on the bottom side of the intake, and you would never find it. I seriously doubt it's a cam timing issue...the cam would have to be wayyyyyy out for it to do that. Who rebuilt this engine? Did you guys do it, or did you buy it that way. If you have the 3 position crank gear, you should use the 0 mark lined up with the cam gear. this is assuming you have it on the correct keyway (mine has three) But if it ran before, like the others say, it's not the cam. Dont get discouraged, these things take time, and they're usually a very simple problem. And next time, here's a little time saver for you (or others) Instead of pulling whole front of the engine apart just to check your cam orientation, pull the intake. Rotate the engine to TDC on the overlap stroke (not compression) on #1 cylinder. Measure from the top of the intake lifter to the top of the lifter boss. Use a machinist rule. You should have about .030 more on the intake than you do on the exhaust. If that's the case, your cam is in correctly. Simple! Good luck, I really think it's vacuum. But I've been wrong before. Please make sure you fill us in. John

Well we ruled out the cam. Steve replaced the single gear with a double. They both lined up perfectly therefor saying to him that the cam was OK in the first place. Now he is gonna check lifters, pushrods and what he can before deciding to pull the engine again. There are two problems here, the first is the diesel sound and slight knocking when the engine is running. That has been there from day 1 when we first fired it. We just figured with a new rebuild, it would work it's way out. Well that wasn't the case. The cam was OK when Steve checked it before buttoning up the engine and running it. The only problem, except for the slight knock or diesel sound, was the engine would die when we would put it in gear. Steve and some of the "guys" thought maybe the torque converter was locking up on the 700 R4 so he pulled the engine and put on a 350. Hooked everything back up and took it for a 15 mile drive, the car shifted great but we noticed that the alternator wasn't charging the battery. So a day or so later I drove it about a mile away from home and sat at a cruise-in. Right after we got there someone asked me to fire up my new stereo system and when I went to start the car, it was dead. We jumped it and ran it for a few and then shut it off. When I left then to go home, it started up OK but my headlights were very dim. Knowing that the damn alternator may be bad, I drove it home and as I put it into reverse to back into the driveway, it died.This time it was an electrical stall. The following morning Steve took the alternator off and put a new one on and immediately it began charging the battery so we let it run for quite awhile. Then when Steve got in it to drive it awhile, upon putting it in gear, it died. He refired and tried again and the same thing. This is what the car was doing when the guys thought the torque converter was locking up with the first tranny. It isn't possible with the 350 so we ruled that out. He tinkered with the timing, idle ,etc. most of the day yesterday with the same results. This morning he started it up again and while it was cold, it would shift into gear with a higher idle but the minute it got warm, the dying problem was back.
So there you have it, I personally don't think the 2 problems are related but Steve does. The dieseling sound has never gone away even after adjusting the valves. This was everyones answer to the knocking diesel sound. It is still there and more prominant when it is cold. I have tried to explain the issues as best as I can but maybe I am not communicating well.
THANKS EVERYONE for your input I still am considering selling it. I was much happier with the 235.
JoAnne