Thread: 350 stalls when put in gear

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JoAnne, you didnt answer my question about who built the engine. Was this something you guys did yourself, or did a shop or a friend do it for you? I wish I could understand the part about 'dieseling' sound...I know what that should sound like, but I cant relate it to a chevy engine. Do you mean a rattling sound? Knocking? Pinging? This is the part that concerns me. And how are you positive you dont have a vacuum leak? I still think it might be the problem, at least with the stalling part.

The engine came out of a Camaro and Steve installed new lifters, etc. He did not however install a new cam. He basically took the entire engine apart and re-done it.
Right now he has the intake off and is working on the valves. He discovered the lifters were too tight and the plungers inside several were pushed down past the C clip. All the pushrods were OK and he is checking the lifters to see if any are dished. So far none are.
He told me to write that he is installing a new intake manifold because he wasn't sure about it sealing and would rather use a new one to be sure.
He is convinced that the valves were hte cause of the "dieseling" or rattling noise we were hearing. I wish I could explain the noise but it is impossible. When the car was cold and at idle, it sounded like a diesel engine. When warm, you could hear a faint knocking or rattling and it seemed to be coming from the passenger rear side of the engine. That is where he found the pushrods way oast the C clip. God I hope I am saying that right, I keep running out to the garage and taking notes.
If this corrects the rattling, then it is his hope that a new intake properly sealed will hopefully rule out any vacuum leaks there.
God guys, I hope I am stating this right, if not someone having this problem too someday will be horribly confused reading this thread.
I will keep you abreast of the progress.
Thanks again for all the help.
JoAnne

OK, the noise is making a little more sense to me now. Dont worry, you're explaining it as well as anyone could. Im probably not gonna make any friends here, and I'll apologize now...but why in the world would someone replace the lifters without replacing the cam? They wear together, and to do one without the other is just asking for trouble. And the lifters being tight in the bore is bad news. If they dont spin freely in the bores, there are problems right from the get go...and the problems start right away, not later on...I mean like seconds into the start-up. You cant tell if a lifter is dished by looking at it...I mean, you can if it's bad enough, but it can still be no good, and you'll never tell by sight. Always, always do cam and lifters together...they say you can use new lifters with an old cam, but I personally have not had good luck doing that. For the cost of a cam, around 100 bucks, it's not worth the risk. When you weigh that cost against having to pull the engine back apart because of all the chewed up metal floating around and ruining all the bearings and your hard work, it's a pretty cheap deal. Good luck on your findings, maybe it wont be too bad. And good deal on re-doing the intake, I think that might be your problem with the stalling. Keep us posted, and again, Im sorry if I offended you or your husband. That wasnt my intent.

Cam looks good Steve said, we would have to pull the engine to get the cam out completely. The way we had to modify the the whole engine bay and firewall to get that small block in there, it is a nightmare to get it out again. He checked the cam while turning the engine and looking down the holes, said there is very little wear maybe 5,000 of an inch. Some of the lifters won't depress so he is gonna put in a new set tomorrow, maybe cause they are full of fluid but to ba on the safe side, he is gonna replace them.
The intake manifold had a weld somewhere deep inside one of the two top ports and he wasn't sure why cause the manifold was a swap meet find anyway. He looked it over when he bought it but the weld was way inside so he isn't gonna fool with it.
He suspects that the couple lifters that were pushed past the C clamps might be the culprit to the rattling. None of the lifters had any damage to their surface what so ever. With the exception of a couple that would not depress inside.
Thanks Johnny

OK then....Hope you find that both of those fixes will get you going again. Make sure those new lifters spin in the bores with no drag whatsoever. Lots of lube, and use a bottle of GM Engine Oil Supplement during break-in...that's the critical part. Good luck!

Didn't we have a thread just recently where somebody bought lifters at autozone and got 2 different kinds of lifters. Maybe the ones that are clacking are solids.

Use a pushrod to push the plunger down in all the new lifters that you are buying and make sure that they are hydraulics. Then set the preload according to these instructions from Crane....

Adjusting Hydraulic Lifters for Proper Preload
In order to adjust the preload the lifter must be properly located on the base circle or ?Heel? of the lobe. At this position the valve is closed and there is no lift taking place. You will need to watch the movement of the valves to determine which lifter is properly positioned for adjusting.

1. Remove the valve covers, and pick a cylinder you are going to set the preload on.

2. Hand rotate the engine in its normal direction of rotation and watch the exhaust valve on that particular cylinder. When the exhaust valve begins to open, stop and adjust that cylinder?s intake rocker arm. (Why? Because when the exhaust valve is just beginning to open, the intake lifter will be on the base circle of the lobe, the correct position for adjusting the intake.)

3. Back off the intake rocker arm adjuster and remove any tension from the pushrod. Wait a minute or two for that hydraulic lifter to return to a neutral position. The spring inside the lifter will move the pushrod seat up against the retaining lock if you give it time to do so. (If you are installing brand new lifters they will be in the neutral position when they come in the box.)

4. Now spin the intake pushrod with your fingers while tightening down the rocker arm. When you feel a slight resistance to the turning of the pushrod, you are at ?Zero Lash?. Turn the adjusting nut down one half to one full turn from that point. Lock the adjuster into position. The intake is now adjusted properly.

5. Continue to hand turn the engine, watching that same intake. It will go to full open and then begin to close. When it is almost closed, stop and adjust the exhaust rocker arm on that particular cylinder. (Again, when we see the intake almost closed, we are sure that exhaust lifter is on the base circle of the lobe.) Loosen the exhaust rocker arm and follow the same procedure described before in steps 3 and 4 to adjust this rocker arm.

6. Both valves on this cylinder are now adjusted, and you can move on to your next cylinder and follow the same procedure again.

Sounds good to me Denny

Originally Posted by techinspector1

Sounds good to me Denny

Me too. I fully support that method. When I tried teaching my son how to set lifters, he was able to rotate the push rods long after contact was made with the lifter and rocker. He went several rotations after contact. (from the sounds of how deep the push rods are into LowJo's lifters, seems they did the same thing. That would also explain the rattling noise, the valves are hitting the pistons.) I had to teach him how to be real ginger/soft to the touch. I made him giggle the push rod till the rocker became firm. Then he tightened the rocker adjusting nut an additional 1/4 turn- 1/2 turn.

That is some really great advise guys, I appreciate it so much. "Clatter" is a perfect word to describe what we were hearing. I will make sure Steve reads this BEFORE he installs the new lifters. Now if we can only firgure out how to keep the damn thing running when we drop it into gear! Maybe the intake was the problem there, I will keep you posted.
Thank you again
JoAnne

If your lifters were set too tight, then they would never have been closed one hundred precent. This might have been the cause of the engine stalling when dropped into gear.

Originally Posted by TyphoonZR

If your lifters were set too tight, then they would never have been closed one hundred precent. This might have been the cause of the engine stalling when dropped into gear.

I agree. No matter what, I'd like to see you do a compression test on the motor when you get it back together. Remove all the spark plugs (so the motor will spin faster and not overheat the starter) and wire the carburetor primary throttle blades wide open. Make sure the battery is fully charged.

You can use a hand-held compression tester with a rubber tip that you just push and hold into the spark plug hole or you can use one that has the proper threads and screws into the spark plug hole.

Make sure the engine has been warmed up before beginning the test, to ensure that the oil has been warmed up. A cold engine will not test correctly.
Disable the ignition module or coil.
Insert the compression tester into one cylinder spark plug hole at a time.
Hold the throttle to full open position to ensure the engine gets adequate air intake. (Or like I said, wire the throttle open for the test).
Crank the engine continually for at least five to 10 full revolutions to obtain an accurate reading on the compression tester. (This is why you need a fully charged battery before you begin).
Record the reading for each cylinder. If any of them vary 10 percent or more from each other a problem may exist in one or more cylinders. If the variance is greater than 10 percent, specialized testing equipment may be required to fully diagnose the problem.
If all cylinder readings are within 10 percent of each other, no further testing is required and compression is considered optimal.

I'm strongly suggesting this compression test because I want to know if you have bent any valves by having the valves adjusted too tightly.

A good solid street motor should have 140 to 180 psi in all cylinders, depending on the static compression ratio and cam timing.

i thought it would be fun to go in another direction. Is the torque converter bad on the tranny? Is it a tranny problem making it die? just some things to check.

OK guys we found the problem BUT first let me tell you what Steve did to get there................. He pulled the engine out AGAIN. Replaced the lifters, cam and removed the heads. He wanted to make sure NOTHING was wrong. All new everything. Put the engine back in, tightened everything down, hooked up all components and GUESS WHAT!!!!!!!!!!! The dieseling noise is gone!!!!!!!! Turned out the valves were adjusted too tight and that was that issue. Started the car and once the alternator kicked in, BAM! the damn car died. Same problem we were having before all this occured. None of this made sense so since Steve ruled out vacuum leaks, firing problems, etc. He turned to electrical, that was the only thing he had not considered because prior to the engine change, everything worked fine.
Well at about midnight last night, he found out what was causing the damn car to die, it was the HEI distributor it didn't like the ballast resistor!!!!!!!!!!! So he took it out of the loop and WHALAH!!!!!!!! Fixed.
He took it out for a drive after finding that and said it "Runs like a RA*ED Ape". Seriously he said it ran smooth, shifted great and timing was perfect. SO there ya have it.
I wanted to post as soon as he figured it out so in case there was someone having the same issue, and they could maybe avoid all the useless steps we did.
THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR THE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!
JoAnne

Back at post 14 that same thing was mentioned

You're right!!!!!!!! But at the time we were looking at something other than electrical. Steve said he is much happier now that he dismantled the engine tho because now he knows that all components are right and working properly. The "clattering" or "dieseling" noise were the valves being too tight. God I feel better and now I can make a show or 2 before the season ends.
THANKS EVERYONE!
JoAnne