Thread: engine teardown... pics/ proform info????

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Originally Posted by tim_bo16

i think ya took it the wrong way pat, i wasnt trying to say that your telling me wrong, i was just trying to say that it only has that many miles.. but yes, thank you for telling me that, i had no ideal that that is the longest they last on street use.

so for my next build, you would reccomend basically a "stock" stamped steel rocker arm? or what is your choice on a good roller rocker? full roller top end better for street or no? its gonna probably be a 383 or 406, shooting for 380ish wheel hp. but yea, ill check stuff, i have no problem checking stuff, i just had no idea.

now when you check for pushrod size, how would that make much of a difference when everything is for the "basic small block chevy"? i could understand if i had ALL the wrong pushrods for size if everyone of them had ground down or broke, but it was just two of them. ? just curious! thank you pat

well the stock stuff will run over 70.000 EZ roller rocker s will not less they are the best built rockers and do know the ones that could ? no guaranty but have some ideals but we are talking $500to $1700 . it would be hard for me to tell you that any of them could make the trip 100% for sure but the odds would be better. for street miles them can be the hardest low oil splash. race engine at best only see a hand full of miles then they get open up to check every thing .as for it stock and should you check things that is a big YES .every rocker even after market steel stamp ones should be check .every one that makes roller rocker arms can very to a small amount to alot in geometry and the harlandsharp to let say a crane roller rocker will not take the same length pushrod there are many ways to check the geometry from low to hi tech the way i do it works off the rocker you are going to use not the 15.00 cheap checker .i did say 210 tip on your pushrods very well could of stop what went wrong .WHAT THE HELL IS A 210 TIP? the 210 is back clearance radius that will increased load bearing surface alot of guys say you do not need them i use them on about every thing that will run a roller rocker if i think the cup is deep and on yours they are .if you had to do it all over i not a big fan of rocker s that track at the valve stem and not in the head or the use of a guilde plates .as for the roller tips rockers they are a wast of money your not getting zip from them all the force still is working on the rocker ball/ fulcum .not a roller trunnion so a roller tip rocker still will see about same amount of friction as steel stamper will see and will show wear at the highest load point the rocker ball not the tip... rollers rockers are the best just not going to last very long and all geometry should be check along with the push rod tip to rocker arm cup..

what i see with your push rods is a shiny wear mark out side of the ball end i would say that the push rod ball was not seated and working on the cup but the out side of the rocker cup was side loading it making to wear why did just 3 do that ? well hard to say they are not made as a set so could of been a bad run of rocker cups or them cups are in the rocker body deeper or them pushrods were on the way out or bad head work ? dry start like henry rifle said hope i did not piss him off . but it could be some of the above or all or none i do not have the stuff in my hands. hard to say all i can tell you is i have seen the proforms eat pushrods .i can not say they fixed there problems i will not use any or sell anymore of them

well, very informative, !! thank you very much for that.. i can tell you now, im gonna have some questions for you in my next engine build!!

ya know, if thats alright with you!

just trying to help.. i know i may come off as a hard ass but you just can not think any of the stuff fits right i just did a big chief engine and them rockers were $1700. and did not fit so we rework them to the engine they would never work out of the box if so it would of been down on power and valve train parts would of failed

Hey Tim bo_16 Check your P.M SB Chevy Tango

here are somethings to think about the studs can be off but that will not make for pushrod failure ?why they would have to be mile off and the rocker moves in a arc so if in line with the valve stem or a mile close it the rocker still will work many engines the stud tower is not at the same angle with the valve center line even side to side or is the lifter to rocker to valve stem all in line .i have seen the run at a hell of a angle this can be fixed by a offset lifter cup .you want to cut this angle down when your going hi rpms and a valve spring over 1000 lbs open it would side load the pushrod a bit .the rocker stud should catch a bit of the not threaded part of the stud this is thicker and can help with some side load and some rocking . the polly lock s do sit on a step or a flat so with out some shoulder they can wobble .gm made over 400hp with steel stamp rocker s and some of the new hi dollar rockers do not have a roller tip like jesel. the ball part of the stock rocker is the down fall and over many years on the street i have found that by using the stock lower hp rocker balls with no grooved balls held up better then grooved ones never seam to work that hot and just cut in the rocker body this was over many years and cams that had over 600 lift

well it so funny on here why did i wast any time on this ? well TANGO has told me so much by PM . told me not to help any more he going to fix every thing ? well OK TANGO THE FLOORS IS YOURS i did not see him post on this thats is OK so the time i took to posting was just a wast i really do not care what you think i know that i posted and have machine up many SBC and spent many many many hours on valve train .making it right would not have any thing to do with the maker gm ford amc etc it all applies so hope in tango i am done would like to chat some more but i have to get up and early and work on race engines

ive had them erson's for about 12 years damn lucky to get them. never had ANY problems with them. bearings still look good and free movement.

Originally Posted by pat mccarthy

well it so funny on here why did i wast any time on this ? well TANGO has told me so much by PM . told me not to help any more he going to fix every thing ? well OK TANGO THE FLOORS IS YOURS i did not see him post on this thats is OK so the time i took to posting was just a wast i really do not care what you think i know that i posted and have machine up many SBC and spent many many many hours on valve train .making it right would not have any thing to do with the maker gm ford amc etc it all applies so hope in tango i am done would like to chat some more but i have to get up and early and work on race engines

Hey Pat, I'll take your information and knowledge on engines over many on this forum.... First hand experience and building hi performance engines everyday is by far a better learning tool then anything else.

Anyway, a question.... On a Windsor stroker, mild hydraulic roller, and aluminum (AFR if it matters) what would I want in the valve train to give it some good longevity on the street??? Got to have some adjustability in the rocker arms. Spend the big bucks on the Crower rockers or ?????? Oh yeah, 7/16" studs for the rockers, too........


Tim, you'll never go wrong taking Pat's advice! It might take a little more time and a bit more money to do an engine right, but it sure is worth it in the long run!

oh of course!, just the little details he has listed is all new for me. like i said not saying he was wrong, just trying to understand "what" went wrong with mine seeing how i never thought that "that much" clearencing and checking on thing was even nessesarry in a street build?

Originally Posted by tim_bo16

oh of course!, just the little details he has listed is all new for me. like i said not saying he was wrong, just trying to understand "what" went wrong with mine seeing how i never thought that "that much" clearencing and checking on thing was even nessesarry in a street build?

Well maybe all the checking, double checking, clearancing, and "adjusting" shouldn't be necessary but unfortunately there is always the human error factor in all the parts we buy.... Sometimes the quality control, or more so the lack of it, becomes apparant with sometime spent inspecting all the parts that go into a build....especially if you choose to use some of the import parts.... Every manufacturer puts out flawed products, but to me it seems a lot of the import stuff is built and priced for the quick sell more then the quality of the product. Also, I think we're all guilty of assuming that if a part is good for racing it will be good for street use. Not so. I've learned the hard way that a lot of the race parts are best left on the race car and a stock part, or especially an improved version of it from a quality manufacturer is much better suited to having a long and happy life on the street.....

well just trying to shed some light on things the way i see it .as a guy that works damn hard to have a very good rep and makes a living building race and stock engines every day . i look at every part as if it fails your going to be on my back so every thing gets check many times. as for the best i know the harlandsharps were getting a bit loose at 4000 or so never look in to it the truck was my daily driver and rusted to the ground and sold it they still could be on it hamming away . on the best ? hard to say just for the street but any one that would use a usa roller bearings would be a good start i like the crowers scorpions/howards crane/lunati golds but what could be better then every one but the crower ? is the PBM this has a very big trunnion but do not have any hi miles on them

i have heard good about the scorpions as well, are they pricey?

Originally Posted by tim_bo16

i have heard good about the scorpions as well, are they pricey?

no the howards and scorpions are the same you can get them out of comp products out of oshkosh wi

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